What is universalism ?

[Frank Russell]

Or, precious friend, the sound doctrine could be in line with "The Righteous and Just Judgment
of God."

Amen.

With so many denominations and variations on the teachings, sound doctrine has been reduced to doctrine that sounds like what has been said before. Seeing that the scripture supports ultimate reconciliation, but also has verses that say eternal damnation is the correct conclusion; The ethical conclusion is that both sides of the dichotomy are incorrect .. and the doctrine both are implying .. is not currently imaginable.

This is not necessarily a bad thing since the bible says that He is able to do more than we can imagine or think .. so how much more regarding the judgment?

Since this falls under "what God decides to do" .. it is unlikely we will be able to apply anything but human patterns to a divine paradigm .. thus we will be wrong.

Since we are judged according to how we judge others, I choose to judge how God will act based on how He acted when He saved my soul. He didn't have to do it, I did nothing to deserve it, but He did it anyway. So based on that principle, I assume God who owns 100% of the sheep will ensure all sheep come home.

To assume God will destroy those who deserve it is to ask for your own destruction. For as you judge others, you too will be judged.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

That tends to be an exercise in futility.

And THAT I agree with completely. As far as God "Saving Everyone" - not so much.

 

[Frank Russell]

And THAT I agree with completely. As far as God "Saving Everyone" - not so much.

That's okay.

In the end all that matters is what God thinks.

 

[civic]

That's okay.

In the end all that matters is what God thinks.

Amen

 

[TomL]

See verses I cited above. Only by presuming Eternal Torment a priori can you dismiss the scriptural teaching that "all shall be saved (1 Tim. 4:10)." Universalists do believe in hell. They just don't believe that it's eternal, since scripture nowhere states that it is.

Of the few verses that even mention hell's duration, they always uses the term "aeonios" which as I explained above does not necessarily mean "eternal."

1Tim 4:10 does not state all shall be saved

That is a misreading of the text

1 Timothy 4:10 (ESV) — 10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

and it differentiates between those who believe and those who do not

 

[Studyman]

That's okay.

In the end all that matters is what God thinks.

And since God, the God of Abraham, "Cannot lie". And HE had His Word written for our admonition, for "our sakes no doubt", then "In the end all that matters is what God Says."

As His Son, the Lord's Christ teaches.

Matt. 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by "every word" that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

So we don't need one of this world's "many" religious sects or businesses "Who come in Christ's Name" telling us what God "Thinks" according to the imagination of their hearts, or the traditions of their adopted religion.

Rather, we can Trust God's Word, the Sword of the Lord, "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works".

And in the end, what does HIS Inspired Word teach all that matters?

Ecc. 12: 11 The words of the wise are like goad points, And like imbedded bolts for the possessors of gathered sayings (Me) They are given by one shepherd. (Holy One of Israel, the Rock)" 12 Yet furthermore, my son, from adding to these, be warned; Of the making of many scrolls there is no end, And much study is weariness to the flesh." 13 The terminus of the whole matter has been heard: Fear the One, Elohim, and keep His instructions, For this is the whole duty of humanity."

 

[Frank Russell]

And since God, the God of Abraham, "Cannot lie". And HE had His Word written for our admonition, for "our sakes no doubt", then "In the end all that matters is what God Says."

As His Son, the Lord's Christ teaches.

Matt. 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by "every word" that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

So we don't need one of this world's "many" religious sects or businesses "Who come in Christ's Name" telling us what God "Thinks" according to the imagination of their hearts, or the traditions of their adopted religion.

Rather, we can Trust God's Word, the Sword of the Lord, "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works".

And in the end, what does HIS Inspired Word teach all that matters?

Ecc. 12: 11 The words of the wise are like goad points, And like imbedded bolts for the possessors of gathered sayings (Me) They are given by one shepherd. (Holy One of Israel, the Rock)" 12 Yet furthermore, my son, from adding to these, be warned; Of the making of many scrolls there is no end, And much study is weariness to the flesh." 13 The terminus of the whole matter has been heard: Fear the One, Elohim, and keep His instructions, For this is the whole duty of humanity."

Yeah, so what God judges, not you - is what matters in the end.

Thankfully, all judgment is given to the Son, whom when dying the most cursed and betrayed death said "forgive them"

 

[TomL]

With so many denominations and variations on the teachings, sound doctrine has been reduced to doctrine that sounds like what has been said before. Seeing that the scripture supports ultimate reconciliation, but also has verses that say eternal damnation is the correct conclusion; The ethical conclusion is that both sides of the dichotomy are incorrect .. and the doctrine both are implying .. is not currently imaginable.

This is not necessarily a bad thing since the bible says that He is able to do more than we can imagine or think .. so how much more regarding the judgment?

Since this falls under "what God decides to do" .. it is unlikely we will be able to apply anything but human patterns to a divine paradigm .. thus we will be wrong.

Since we are judged according to how we judge others, I choose to judge how God will act based on how He acted when He saved my soul. He didn't have to do it, I did nothing to deserve it, but He did it anyway. So based on that principle, I assume God who owns 100% of the sheep will ensure all sheep come home.

John 10:26 (ESV) — 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep.

 

[Frank Russell]

John 10:26 (ESV) — 26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep.

anyone who has died has been set free from sin. (Romans 6:7)

Might be why it's called a second death.

 

[TomL]

anyone who has died has been set free from sin. (Romans 6:7)

Might be why it's called a second death.

Freed from the slavery to sin and its power

 

[Frank Russell]

Freed from the slavery to sin and its power

The first death frees the body, the second the soul.

 

[Studyman]

Yeah, so what God judges, not you - is what matters in the end.

Lol, that is exactly what my post advocates. What God says, not you or I or the Pope or Kenneth Copeland etc.

Thankfully, all judgment is given to the Son, whom when dying the most cursed and betrayed death said "forgive them"

I have heard of this popular religious philosophy, that implies Jesus, in His Dying breath, made void the entire bible, His Own Words, and made the teaching of His Apostles of none effect, because Jesus said, "Forgive them". Therefore, regardless of any one's deeds, they promote the age-old gospel "Thou shall surely not die".

Now no doubt this is a very seductive religious philosophy, and a genius marketing strategy us by this world's religious businesses and sects as they compete for butts to fill the seats of the manmade shrines of worship they build. And has led to the creations of some of the most wealthy and politically powerful religions this planet has ever seen.

But, of course, one would have to reject the same Christ's Words Spoken in the Same scriptures after HE was raised from the dead.

Rev. 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

I'm always fascinated by how men cling to some of the Christ's Words but ignore the rest.

For me, It seems clear that Jesus didn't want God to hold the sin of murdering HIM, against them. "For they know not what they do". But it seems foolish, and Anti-Christ to preach that Jesus asked His father to forgive the unrepentant for all their sins. And to believe Jesus asked His Father to forgive the un-repentant murderers of Stephen or the persecution of other Children who placed their trust in Him, is not what the Christ taught at all.

Luke 11:49 Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute: 50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; 51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.

God will surely grant Jesus His last wish. But the Judgment against them will not change because unless there is repentance.

Luke 13: 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

 

[Rockson]

For me, It seems clear that Jesus didn't want God to hold the sin of murdering HIM, against them. "For they know not what they do". But it seems foolish, and Anti-Christ to preach that Jesus asked His father to forgive the unrepentant for all their sins. And to believe Jesus asked His Father to forgive the un-repentant murderers of Stephen or the persecution of other Children who placed their trust in Him, is not what the Christ taught at all.

Luke 11:49 Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute: 50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; 51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.

I agree with your assessment on all of this . Very good.

Saying it another way I think what Jesus was meaning was don't let this what they've now done be considered to be an unforgiveable sin over their lives. He was basically saying after the resurrection and when the gospel goes forth still be willing and ready to receive their repentance. In Acts 6:7 we read where many priest did become obedient to the faith. The warning of the verse you quoted, Lk 11:40 however would still apply to a great many who wouldn't repent.

 

[Rowan]

Universalism is false and unscriptural. Some claim that only a few are saved; others promote universal salvation—and each side harnesses Scripture for their own cause. Jesus said there was only one way to come to the father "To be saved" And that's through Him.

God's Word says that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus and not by our own efforts or works. Ephesians 2:8-9

Grace Alone. Faith Alone. Grace alone means that God loves, forgives, and saves us not because of who we are or what we do, but because of the work of Christ. And if you don't believe in the work of Christ you have no salvation.

 

[Frank Russell]

Lol, that is exactly what my post advocates. What God says, not you or I or the Pope or Kenneth Copeland etc.


I have heard of this popular religious philosophy, that implies Jesus, in His Dying breath, made void the entire bible, His Own Words, and made the teaching of His Apostles of none effect, because Jesus said, "Forgive them". Therefore, regardless of any one's deeds, they promote the age-old gospel "Thou shall surely not die".

Now no doubt this is a very seductive religious philosophy, and a genius marketing strategy us by this world's religious businesses and sects as they compete for butts to fill the seats of the manmade shrines of worship they build. And has led to the creations of some of the most wealthy and politically powerful religions this planet has ever seen.

But, of course, one would have to reject the same Christ's Words Spoken in the Same scriptures after HE was raised from the dead.

Rev. 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

I'm always fascinated by how men cling to some of the Christ's Words but ignore the rest.

For me, It seems clear that Jesus didn't want God to hold the sin of murdering HIM, against them. "For they know not what they do". But it seems foolish, and Anti-Christ to preach that Jesus asked His father to forgive the unrepentant for all their sins. And to believe Jesus asked His Father to forgive the un-repentant murderers of Stephen or the persecution of other Children who placed their trust in Him, is not what the Christ taught at all.

Luke 11:49 Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute: 50 That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation; 51 From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.

God will surely grant Jesus His last wish. But the Judgment against them will not change because unless there is repentance.

Luke 13: 27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

Sometimes framing teachings according the parables helps. The above post sounds a lot like the elder son of the prodigal son parable. Though it is inevitable to become like the Father in length, at least you're a son.