What is the Soul? Is it Immortal?
- Thread starter Complete
- Start date
civic
Well-known member
We can see that there is conscious existence after physical death. Jesus John and Paul teach this below.
Luke 16:22-31
22 "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23"In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24"And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.' 25"But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.' 27"And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house — 28for I have five brothers — in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.' 29"But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.' 30"But he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!' 31"But he said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.'"
Rev 6:9-11
9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; 10and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" 11And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.
Phil 1:23-25
23 But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; 24yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake.
2 Cor 5:8
8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
We can also see that in the OT both Elijah and Enoch were taken to be with the Lord.(Gen 5:24,2 Kings 2:1,11-14,Heb11;5) We also see the conscious existence of both Moses and Elijah during the transfiguration where they spoke with Peter,John and James(see Matt 17:3).
Matt 17:1-9
After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
4 Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters — one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah."
5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!"
6 When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified. 7 But Jesus came and touched them. "Get up," he said. "Don't be afraid." 8 When they looked up, they saw no one except Jesus.
9 As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, "Don't tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead."
These men still await the resurrection of the last day but yet they are conscious and communicated with Jesus and the disciples. This is in complete agreement with Lazarus above when he died and went to Paradise. We also see that Jesus told the thief on the cross that TODAY (after both of their deaths)you will be with Me in Paradise. Jesus said that He went to be with the Father immediately upon His death in
Luke 23:46
46 And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, "Father, INTO YOUR HANDS I COMMIT MY SPIRIT." Having said this, He breathed His last. The above passage with Jesus is exactly what we see in the book of Acts and Stephens death.
Acts 7:59-60 59 They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!" 60Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" Having said this, he fell asleep.
In Luke we see that Jesus said God was the God of the living not the dead. Jesus was letting the Pharisees know that even though these men died many centuries ago that they were alive in the presence of God. We also see that the author of Hebrews confirms this teaching as well.
Heb 12:23-24
23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.
To sum up the conscious existence of man is irrefutable when one looks at the teaching of Jesus, John, Paul and the writer of Hebrews. There is no escaping the clear biblical teaching of the immortality of the soul.
hope this helps !!!
Luke 16:22-31
22 "Now the poor man died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. 23"In Hades he lifted up his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his bosom. 24"And he cried out and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus so that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue, for I am in agony in this flame.' 25"But Abraham said, 'Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony. 26'And besides all this, between us and you there is a great chasm fixed, so that those who wish to come over from here to you will not be able, and that none may cross over from there to us.' 27"And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house — 28for I have five brothers — in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.' 29"But Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.' 30"But he said, 'No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!' 31"But he said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.'"
Rev 6:9-11
9 When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; 10and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" 11And there was given to each of them a white robe; and they were told that they should rest for a little while longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brethren who were to be killed even as they had been, would be completed also.
Phil 1:23-25
23 But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better; 24yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake.
2 Cor 5:8
8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.
We can also see that in the OT both Elijah and Enoch were taken to be with the Lord.(Gen 5:24,2 Kings 2:1,11-14,Heb11;5) We also see the conscious existence of both Moses and Elijah during the transfiguration where they spoke with Peter,John and James(see Matt 17:3).
Matt 17:1-9
After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
4 Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters — one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah."
5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!"
6 When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified. 7 But Jesus came and touched them. "Get up," he said. "Don't be afraid." 8 When they looked up, they saw no one except Jesus.
9 As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, "Don't tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead."
These men still await the resurrection of the last day but yet they are conscious and communicated with Jesus and the disciples. This is in complete agreement with Lazarus above when he died and went to Paradise. We also see that Jesus told the thief on the cross that TODAY (after both of their deaths)you will be with Me in Paradise. Jesus said that He went to be with the Father immediately upon His death in
Luke 23:46
46 And Jesus, crying out with a loud voice, said, "Father, INTO YOUR HANDS I COMMIT MY SPIRIT." Having said this, He breathed His last. The above passage with Jesus is exactly what we see in the book of Acts and Stephens death.
Acts 7:59-60 59 They went on stoning Stephen as he called on the Lord and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!" 60Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" Having said this, he fell asleep.
In Luke we see that Jesus said God was the God of the living not the dead. Jesus was letting the Pharisees know that even though these men died many centuries ago that they were alive in the presence of God. We also see that the author of Hebrews confirms this teaching as well.
Heb 12:23-24
23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel.
To sum up the conscious existence of man is irrefutable when one looks at the teaching of Jesus, John, Paul and the writer of Hebrews. There is no escaping the clear biblical teaching of the immortality of the soul.
hope this helps !!!
Complete
Well-known member
Hello @civic,
Thank you for responding to the OP.
You have referred to several portions of Scripture to support your thinking in regard to this subject, which is that there is conscious existence after physical death. Let's see what you have quoted:-
* This story was used by the Lord Jesus Christ, to illustrate the hypocrisy and Scripture denying nature of Pharisaic teaching, and not to teach concerning the state of the dead.
* This was the subject of a vision, concerning events which will take place in, 'The Lord's Day', (or, the day of the Lord), which John saw, and recorded at God's instruction. These 'souls' (or persons) referred to, had been slain on account of the word of God,and the testimony which they held. Maryred saints, personified and represented as waiting, but they themselves were dead; for in Rev.20:4, John sees them again, it says, 'they lived again' in the first resurrection. Why say, 'lived not again' if, all the time, they were alive in some other place.
What John sees is a vision for the purpose of instructing him; just as Jotham's parable instructed the men of Israel when he represented trees as speaking.(Judges 9)
* The only way that Paul could depart and be with Christ, was if Christ should return, for then Paul would not have to experience the, 'naked'
,(2 Cor. 5:3) state, which is death, but would have a resurrection body, like unto that of the Lord Jesus Christ.
* You refer to 2 Corinthians 5:8:-
We are confident, I say,
and willing rather to be absent from the body,
and to be present with the Lord.'
* The Apostle Paul goes on in chapter 5, to develop a theme begun in the previous chapter, and to consider what it will involve if he is called upon to give his life for Christ, and thereby not be among those who are 'alive and remain to the coming of the Lord (1 Thess. 4:15). He realizes that his human body is only a temporary structure like a tent, but though adequate for this earthly pilgrimage, is not suitable for the glory yet to be, but will be dissolved after death: but God will provide a permanent 'house from heaven', the resurrection body, which Paul had previously written to the Corinthians about in 1 Cor. 15. He says:-
'For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved,
we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened:
not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon,
that mortality might be swallowed up of life. '
(2 Cor. 5:1-4)
* In Romans 8:23, Paul refers again to 'groaning', 'For we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body'.
He obviously dreaded the 'naked' state, which is death: when he would have neither his earthly 'tabernacle' or have received his, 'house from heaven,'. He desired something so much better, which was to be with Christ, but that required the return of Christ, and a resurrection body. For there is no life after death, apart from resurrection.
* You refer now to Enoch and Elijah' We are told that God 'took' Enoch, he was 'translated', and Elijah went up 'in a whirlwind into heaven' (or into the sky).
'And no man hath ascended up to heaven,
but he that came down from heaven,
even the Son of man which is in heaven.'
(Joh 3:13)
'Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended?
who hath gathered the wind in his fists? i
who hath bound the waters in a garment?
who hath established all the ends of the earth?
what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?'
(Pro 30:4)
* The event which took place on the mount of transfiguration was a vision.
'And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying,
Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.'
(Mat 17:9)
* In regard to both Luke 23:46 and Acts 7:59-60: On both occasions, their spirit returned unto God Who had given it.
*
' But ye are come unto mount Sion,
and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem,
and to an innumerable company of angels,
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn,
which are written in heaven,
and to God the Judge of all,
and to the spirits of just men made perfect,'
(Heb 12:22-23)
* This is referring to the New Jerusalem, and the living hope, which is laid up for those of like precious faith as Abraham.
* I cannot agree that these references confirm the immortality of the soul, for we are told clearly in Ezekiel 18:20 that 'the soul that sinneth it shall die', which refers to the whole being.
Within the love of Christ our Saviour
our Lord and Head.
Chris
civic
Well-known member
death just means a separation of the soul/spirit form the body.Hello @civic,
Thank you for responding to the OP.
You have referred to several portions of Scripture to support your thinking in regard to this subject, which is that there is conscious existence after physical death. Let's see what you have quoted:-
* This story was used by the Lord Jesus Christ, to illustrate the hypocrisy and Scripture denying nature of Pharisaic teaching, and not to teach concerning the state of the dead.
* This was the subject of a vision, concerning events which will take place in, 'The Lord's Day', (or, the day of the Lord), which John saw, and recorded at God's instruction. These 'souls' (or persons) referred to, had been slain on account of the word of God,and the testimony which they held. Maryred saints, personified and represented as waiting, but they themselves were dead; for in Rev.20:4, John sees them again, it says, 'they lived again' in the first resurrection. Why say, 'lived not again' if, all the time, they were alive in some other place.
What John sees is a vision for the purpose of instructing him; just as Jotham's parable instructed the men of Israel when he represented trees as speaking.(Judges 9)
* The only way that Paul could depart and be with Christ, was if Christ should return, for then Paul would not have to experience the, 'naked'
,(2 Cor. 5:3) state, which is death, but would have a resurrection body, like unto that of the Lord Jesus Christ.
* You refer to 2 Corinthians 5:8:-
We are confident, I say,
and willing rather to be absent from the body,
and to be present with the Lord.'
* The Apostle Paul goes on in chapter 5, to develop a theme begun in the previous chapter, and to consider what it will involve if he is called upon to give his life for Christ, and thereby not be among those who are 'alive and remain to the coming of the Lord (1 Thess. 4:15). He realizes that his human body is only a temporary structure like a tent, but though adequate for this earthly pilgrimage, is not suitable for the glory yet to be, but will be dissolved after death: but God will provide a permanent 'house from heaven', the resurrection body, which Paul had previously written to the Corinthians about in 1 Cor. 15. He says:-
'For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved,
we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened:
not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon,
that mortality might be swallowed up of life. '
(2 Cor. 5:1-4)
* In Romans 8:23, Paul refers again to 'groaning', 'For we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body'.
He obviously dreaded the 'naked' state, which is death: when he would have neither his earthly 'tabernacle' or have received his, 'house from heaven,'. He desired something so much better, which was to be with Christ, but that required the return of Christ, and a resurrection body. For there is no life after death, apart from resurrection.
* You refer now to Enoch and Elijah' We are told that God 'took' Enoch, he was 'translated', and Elijah went up 'in a whirlwind into heaven' (or into the sky).
'And no man hath ascended up to heaven,
but he that came down from heaven,
even the Son of man which is in heaven.'
(Joh 3:13)
'Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended?
who hath gathered the wind in his fists? i
who hath bound the waters in a garment?
who hath established all the ends of the earth?
what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?'
(Pro 30:4)
* The event which took place on the mount of transfiguration was a vision.
'And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying,
Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.'
(Mat 17:9)
* In regard to both Luke 23:46 and Acts 7:59-60: On both occasions, their spirit returned unto God Who had given it.
*
' But ye are come unto mount Sion,
and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem,
and to an innumerable company of angels,
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn,
which are written in heaven,
and to God the Judge of all,
and to the spirits of just men made perfect,'
(Heb 12:22-23)
* This is referring to the New Jerusalem, and the living hope, which is laid up for those of like precious faith as Abraham.
* I cannot agree that these references confirm the immortality of the soul, for we are told clearly in Ezekiel 18:20 that 'the soul that sinneth it shall die', which refers to the whole being.
Within the love of Christ our Saviour
our Lord and Head.
Chris
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
It's the "YOU" that lives in your physical body.
Biblically, it's represented as being immortal / eternal.
Rockson
Well-known member
And you're talking about the rich man, Lazarus Hell account. So you make an assertion above....but you don't say why you have made it. So tell us in what way and for what reason do you think it was just about the hypocrisy of Pharisees?
In the context of meaning their spirits had left their physical bodies.
In the context of being able to function and live in the realm of the spirit, soul, and body (meaning the physical body) One has to capture the meaning of context.
Rockson
Well-known member
Yeah sure. But you're saying it really didn't happen like the Bible stated, that is that Moses and Elijah talked to Jesus. That means they were self aware and as we would say "alive". You're saying they weren't. You're saying they really didn't talk to Jesus.
Now what does the word VISION mean in the Greek (which was used)
horama: that which is seen
Original Word: ὅραμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: horama
Phonetic Spelling: (hor'-am-ah)
Definition: that which is seen
Usage: a spectacle, vision, that which is seen.
That which is seen does not have to mean it wasn't true.
I think the following other example should settle the issue.
When Jesus appeared to Paul on the road to Damascus it also was called....A VISION. Paul in Acts 26:9 states he was not disobedient to the heavenly vision. What was the vision? The Lord talking to him. The Lord really and truly didn't talk to him? Is that what we should conclude? It said it was a vision. Acts 18:9 states another time the Lord appeared to him in a vision.
So having something a vision doesn't mean it's not real. Same as with Moses and Elijah. It just means they experienced a spiritual real situation take place out of the ordinary.
atpollard
Well-known member
Why would Jesus lie?
All His other stories reflected real events that people could relate to. People do lose coins and search for them. Coins are real. Sheep do wander off and Shepherds do go looking for them. Sheep are real.
Why would Jesus crate an image of the afterlife that Jesus knew was demonstrably false? Why not just tell a story using an accurate analogy?
Complete
Well-known member
Hello @Bob Carabbio,
Thank you for your input.
In Genesis 2, we have the first usage of the word, 'soul', don't we? :-
'And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;
and man became a living soul.'
(Gen 2:7)
This provides the best indication of what the soul is I believe. It is the whole person: and a living soul is that person energised by the breath of life (or spirit). In Ezekiel 9 we are told, 'the soul that sinneth it shall die,' i,e., the whole person. So the soul is not immortal, though traditionally we have been led to believe that it is, as you say: but that is not what the Bible itself says as we can see.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Complete
Well-known member
Hello @Rockson,
Thank you for taking part.
The Lord was addressing His words to the Pharisees against their traditions: and in verse 18, He refers to what the Pharisees taught concerning divorce, and in verses 19-30 to what the Pharisees taught regarding the dead, in contrast with what is actually contained in the law and the prophets. For the Pharisees made the law concerning divorce void, and did the same to the testimony of the prophets and to the rest of Scripture concerning the dead, as can be seen by comparing the content of Luke 16:19-30 with such Scriptures as, ( Psa. 6:5; Psa. 30:9; Psa.31:17; Psa. 88:11; Psa. 115:17; Psa. 146:4; Eccles. 9:6,10; Eccles. 12:7; Isa. 38:17-19 & chapter ). It is not called a 'parable', because it cites an example of the Pharisee's tradition, which was brought from Babylon, concerning Abraham's bosom. Further insight into this can be found on pages 159-68 of the link below:-
* They had been beheaded. Their breath of life (or spirit) would have gone back to God who gave it, yes.
* This is all I know:-
'And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:
and I saw the souls ('soul' ie., the whole person) of them that were beheaded
for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,
and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image,
neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;
and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.'
(Rev 20:4-5)
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Complete
Well-known member
Hello @Rockson,No, I am not saying it did not happen. I am saying that our Lord Himself told his disciples, Peter, James and John, that what they had seen on the mountain was a vision in Matthew 17:9. They were seeing what the Lord had told them they would see in Matthew 16:28:-
'Verily I say unto you,
There be some standing here,
which shall not taste of death,
till they see the Son of man
coming in His kingdom.'
(Mat 16:28)
They were witnessing a yet future event. It was a prophetic vision. Look at what Peter says about it in 2 Peter 1:16-19:-
'For we have not followed cunningly devised fables,
when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ,
but were eyewitnesses of His majesty.
For He received from God the Father honour and glory,
when there came such a voice to Him from the excellent glory,
"This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
And this voice which came from heaven we heard,
when we were with Him in the holy mount.
We have also a more sure word of prophecy;
whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place,
until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:'
Thank you for your consideration of this with me.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Complete
Well-known member
Hello @atpollard,
Thank you for your contribution.
The Lord Jesus did not lie. This was a story used to illustrate the error of pharisaic teaching based on their traditions, and it's hypocrisy: which did not reflect the truth presented in the Scriptures concerning the state of the dead. It was the doctrine of the Pharisees which spoke of a place called Abraham's bosom, which was brought with them from their time in Babylon, and incorporated into their teaching, and had no basis in Scripture itself.
* Please see reply#12, where I responded to @Rockson on this, and gave him a link to the works of Lightfoot, on this subject.
'Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders?
for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
But He answered and said unto them,
Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?'
(Mat 15:1-3)
Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
our Lord and Head.
Chris
Complete
Well-known member
Please note 1 Timothy 6:15-16:-
'Which in His times He shall shew,
Who is the blessed and only Potentate,
the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
Who only hath immortality,
dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto;
Whom no man hath seen, nor can see:
to Whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.'
(1Tim. 6:15-16)
Within the love of Christ our Saviour,
Now risen and glorified.
Chris
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civic
Well-known member
Please note 1 Corinthians 15:53-54
For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”
hope this helps !!!
Complete
Well-known member
' For this corruptible must put on incorruption,
and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption,
and this mortal shall have put on immortality,
then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,
Death is swallowed up in victory.
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?'
(1Cor. 15:53-55)
Hello @civic,
When do you anticipate this taking place? I believe it takes place at the resurrection from the dead.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
civic
Well-known member
Exactly
Complete
Well-known member
' For this corruptible must put on incorruption,
and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption,
and this mortal shall have put on immortality,
then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,
Death is swallowed up in victory.
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?'
(1Cor. 15:53-55)
Hello @civic,
When do you anticipate the resurrection taking place?
In Christ Jesus
Chris
and this mortal must put on immortality.
So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption,
and this mortal shall have put on immortality,
then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written,
Death is swallowed up in victory.
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?'
(1Cor. 15:53-55)
Hello @civic,
When do you anticipate the resurrection taking place?
In Christ Jesus
Chris
atpollard
Well-known member
According to YOU, Jesus did.
Your (and Lighfoot's) comment about the Pharisees avoids the obvious conflict presented in my post and the true question I posited for your consideration which highlights that conflict.
I get it ... you came, not really asking a question, but advocating a preconceived false notion. If you had simply stated that HONESTLY in the OP, I would not have wasted time arguing against your settled position.
