What is the Gospel
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Jim, I think you misunderstood what I meant when using 1st John 2:12-14.
1st John 2:12-14
“I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake. I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father. I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.”What meant was that in the church family, there are babes, little children, young men and fathers, all are not on the same level of understanding, we go from babes in Christ to fathers, or at least we should if we are progressing accordingly as we should.
Is this acceptable:
He was referencing to my post to Jim. Which I had no problem with him doing so, only if he can take what he was dishes out. He also misunderstood where I was coming from, and never made an attempt to prove what he was saying about me by using the scriptures.
Nevertheless, I will abide by the rules, please accept my apology. I should not had posted what I posted, it was uncalled for.
I would agree with the bulk of what all you have said there. I would, however, take a mild objection to your thoughts concerning reading the scriptures "in faith". It is in reading the scriptures that we come to faith. I would argue that the great bulk of scripture has been given us so that we can see and understand the truth that is portrayed there and believe, then, in the wondrous reality that salvation is available to us by that belief, that faith.
That is entirely possible. At least once before in my life I misunderstood someone.
Yes. And as an aside and for what it is worth, that progressing is called sanctification. For Christians there are two main aspects of sanctification, corresponding to the two senses in which God is holy. The first aspect may be called initial sanctification, which refers to the onetime event in which the unsaved person joins the ranks of the saved, the moment in which he is set apart from the world as such, from his old way of life, and from “this present evil age” (Gal 1:4). It is a change of status or change of position in relation to God and in relation to the world. It transfers the sinner from the domain of darkness into the Kingdom of Christ (Col 1:13). Just as God in his ontological holiness is ever set apart from and distinct from the creation as such, so does the sinner in his conversion transcend the old (sinful and condemned) person and become identified with the new creation (2 Cor 5:17; Eph 2:10).
The second aspect of sanctification may be called progressive sanctification, because it is the ongoing process in which the Christian becomes more and more separated from sin itself. This aspect of sanctification is not a change in status or relationships, but a continuing transformation of our inward character and mental attitudes, as well as our outward behavior and conduct. This is how we “grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” (2 Pet 3:18), and “work out [our] own salvation with fear and trembling” (Phil 2:12). In this aspect of sanctification we become more and more like God in righteousness and holiness of truth (Eph 4:22-24). Our pattern and goal are God’s own ethical holiness, as we are commanded to imitate his perfect moral character: “But like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; because it is written, ‘You shall be holy, for I am holy’” (1 Pet 1:15-16). As Jesus says it, “Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect” (Matt 5:48). Our goal is to “share His holiness” (Heb 12:10) or to “become partakers of the divine nature” (2 Pet 1:4) in this moral sense. We are to purify ourselves, even as he is pure (1 John 3:3). See Luke 1:75; Rom 6:19,22; 2 Cor 6:14–7:1; 1 Thess 3:13; 4:7.
It most assuredly is that second aspect that I personally have had so much difficulty with throughout my life. I keep thinking it should get easier in time, but that is not the case - at least in my case.
We are when saved once and forever Justified, but sanctification is a process then started with no ending until death or second comingThat is entirely possible. At least once before in my life I misunderstood someone.
Yes. And as an aside and for what it is worth, that progressing is called sanctification. For Christians there are two main aspects of sanctification, corresponding to the two senses in which God is holy. The first aspect may be called initial sanctification, which refers to the onetime event in which the unsaved person joins the ranks of the saved, the moment in which he is set apart from the world as such, from his old way of life, and from “this present evil age” (Gal 1:4). It is a change of status or change of position in relation to God and in relation to the world. It transfers the sinner from the domain of darkness into the Kingdom of Christ (Col 1:13). Just as God in his ontological holiness is ever set apart from and distinct from the creation as such, so does the sinner in his conversion transcend the old (sinful and condemned) person and become identified with the new creation (2 Cor 5:17; Eph 2:10).
The second aspect of sanctification may be called progressive sanctification, because it is the ongoing process in which the Christian becomes more and more separated from sin itself. This aspect of sanctification is not a change in status or relationships, but a continuing transformation of our inward character and mental attitudes, as well as our outward behavior and conduct. This is how we “grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” (2 Pet 3:18), and “work out [our] own salvation with fear and trembling” (Phil 2:12). In this aspect of sanctification we become more and more like God in righteousness and holiness of truth (Eph 4:22-24). Our pattern and goal are God’s own ethical holiness, as we are commanded to imitate his perfect moral character: “But like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; because it is written, ‘You shall be holy, for I am holy’” (1 Pet 1:15-16). As Jesus says it, “Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect” (Matt 5:48). Our goal is to “share His holiness” (Heb 12:10) or to “become partakers of the divine nature” (2 Pet 1:4) in this moral sense. We are to purify ourselves, even as he is pure (1 John 3:3). See Luke 1:75; Rom 6:19,22; 2 Cor 6:14–7:1; 1 Thess 3:13; 4:7.
It most assuredly is that second aspect that I personally have had so much difficulty with throughout my life. I keep thinking it should get easier in time, but that is not the case - at least in my case.
My intention was to express my understanding that If I am reading Scriptures, I should "Believe" what I read to the point where I submit to or commit to the correction, reproof or instruction in Righteousness revealed therein, towards my inward self. I used the example of a thief, perhaps a poor example, but the intent was to express my understanding that if we don't direct God's Word towards us, toward our inward self, and continue stealing in this example, we will not profit from what is written. I believe this because of Jesus' Words.
Matt. 7: 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, "and doeth them", I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, "and doeth them not", shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
So in both cases, it was the sayings of Same Christ, that was heard "by both examples" of men. The only difference between them, was that one committed themselves and their bodies to the Word of God which became Flesh. While the other one, although he heard the same Words from the Same Christ, didn't commit themselves or their bodies to the Word of God that became flesh.
So for me, it seems like this Christ Jesus was defining the important difference between men of Faith, and men in which is no Faith. Since it seems the house that stood, can only stand by Faith. According to the rest of the Bible.
But Perhaps Faith was the wrong word to use. Thank you so much for the thoughtful reply and critique. I believe it is good for men to have these discussions.
Probably 25 years ago now, we had gathered with some brothers and sisters and were studying Scriptures together. My friend has just read where Jesus said to Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and HIS Righteousness. My 12 year old daughter asked me the question. "What do we do when we find God's Righteousness"? (out of the mouth of babes) It seems Jesus answer to that question is, "Become a doer" of His sayings, not a hearer only. So the thief reading scriptures, would hear, "Let him that stole steal no more", and if he believed God and stopped stealing, would it not be through faith that he was renewed in the sprit of his mind? But if he just continued hearing the Sayings of the Word of God that became Flesh, but "doeth them not", is that not because he really doesn't believe the Christ?
Anyway, I've been wrong before, I welcome your continued thoughts.
Amen Jim.
True enough!
@Studyman
Studyman, seeking first the kingdom of God and his righteousness could mean either: seeking God's truth concerning how to righteously do his commandments instead of adding to his word by our own doctrines of what constitutes true holiness/sanctification; or, the righteousness of God revealed in the gospel concerning how one is made the righteousness of God freely by grace through the faith and obedience of Jesus Christ, or it could includes both.
That was indeed a wise question coming from children's mind. I once was teaching my second daughter Psalm 23, and when we came to ~"my cup runneth over" ~she looked at me and said daddy, he had too much in his cup ~ she was around seven, that was around fifty years ago! She's now a college professor, and still calls me to get certain answers she looking for from the scriptures. I am sure your daughter does the same if trained properly which I'm sure overall she was. Any child brought up teaching them to love and fear God had a great headstart over those who were not, even with our shortcoming in training properly.
Studyman, seeking first the kingdom of God and his righteousness could mean either: seeking God's truth concerning how to righteously do his commandments instead of adding to his word by our own doctrines of what constitutes true holiness/sanctification; or, the righteousness of God revealed in the gospel concerning how one is made the righteousness of God freely by grace through the faith and obedience of Jesus Christ, or it could includes both.
Even here the main focus of your post is to justify an adopted religion, one that existed in the world God placed us in. To frame every sentence, every word to justify an adopted philosophy.
We taught our child that her relationship with the God and Father of all and His Son, Christ Jesus, once she was an adult, is between her and Them. And to place her faith and trust, not in her dad for answers, or some preacher that transformed himself into an Apostle of Christ, but to seek her answers through study of His Word in belief from the heart, that They will as promised, reveal Themselves to her.
In this way she learned not to follow the religious traditions of this world, as shown clearly in the NT, of adopting a religious sect promoted by men who "profess to know God", and then trusting them for answers to questions regarding Scriptures. Since she has been married, she has never called me and asked me to answer her Biblical questions. Her husband and her study the Holy Scriptures God gave us "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness. That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."
In this way they are not influenced by the Pharisees, Sadducees, Calvinists, Armenians, JW's, SDA, RCC or any of the "many" religious sects that come in Christ's Name, which exists in the world God placed them in. Nor do they placed their faith in me for answers, whose love for them is only exceeded by the Lord's Christ Himself. And she will be tested in this matter, As it is written:
Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. 27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
In this way also, they are not always seeking justification for an adopted religious philosophy like those who walk in the same traditions of the Pharisees, Sadducees, Calvinists, Armenians, JW's, SDA, RCC or any of the "many" religious sects who "come in Christ's Name" that Jesus warned about, that exist in the world God placed them in.
They are free to believe and discuss freely "Every Word" that proceeds from the mouth of God, and be corrected, reproved by them, and become learned of God concerning HIS Righteousness that HE before ordained that we should walk in them. And anyone who had adopted this world's religious philosophies can do the same, if they so choose.
Then we all gather together each week, sharing our studies and our crosses, to the edification of all, being united with the Church of God from Cornelius to Abel, who being dead, yet speaketh.
As you said, "Any child brought up teaching them to love and fear God had a great headstart over those who were not, even with our shortcoming in training properly".
This sentence posted by you is the same absolute truth that I too, have come to believe.
My point was that according to Scriptures, in my view, we are to SEEK to know God to understand "the way that we should go". Not by the religious tradition of this world of Seeking carefully selected Scriptures for the purpose of Justifying popular religious philosophies which exist in the world God placed us in, that we, like our fathers, have adopted as our own. Religious philosophies that differ according to the name written above the door of their man-made shrines of worship.
"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."
But if Jesus doesn't know us, that means we have not been learned of the Father, and were not given to Christ. We may call Him Lord, Lord, and preach in His Name, but if we are not "Doers" of His Sayings, we are not part of His Body, according to His Own Words. From the very beginning God placed mankind, just like Adam and Eve, a world in which "other voices" who profess to know God, even quoting "some" of God's Word, exists. And we have been given the choice to choose one or the other. I chose the easy path, a religion that implies that the Word of God lied to me. But I have heard the Gospel of Christ, and have chosen to believe Him, not as before when I gave Him lip service only, "Wherein in time past I walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience".
This is why I posted His Words that you didn't acknowledge, that we might believe and become renewed in the spirit of our mind, and deny ourselves and the traditions of our fathers, and choose instead to " put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness". Instead of justifying ourselves by carefully selected "Words of God".
Everyone has listened to the "other voice", except for Jesus. He "Lived by" EVERY Word that proceeded from the mouth of God. And even though Paul had sinned, and even though Paul was not yet perfect, He still, forgetting those things which were past, (even a second ago) he pressed toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God which is in Christ Jesus. And he directed, "Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you". How else can the Prize of the High Calling be achieved, but by being a "Doer" of the Christ's Sayings, not a hearer only.
