What is the Gospel

[Red Baker]

@Jim

That was the whole purpose of the choosing, the election, of national Israel.

Jim, you have worked very hard in perverting scriptures, shame on you. Jim, it is not even hinted in Paul's teaching in Romans 9-11, what you are wanting others to believe. Provide scriptures from Romans 9-11, to support your bias opinion, which only shows your hatred toward unconditional election of pure grace.

I'll come back if you can show scriptures to agree with your assumption, a pure assumption it is, if not supported from God's word, which it it is not.

Is it not a very strange act of God of wanting to show Egypt that he has chosen all the world, including Egypt through whom he was going to bring THEM a Savior by drowning them in the Red sea after He killed all the firstborn in Egypt? But more than that, before he drown them, God took off the wheels of their chariots, so they could not escape!

They would not let "HIS PEOPLE" go, which Egypt was not part of his people.

Exodus 15:1-21~Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto the LORD, and spake, saying, I will sing unto the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously: the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea. The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father's God, and I will exalt him. The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name. Pharaoh's chariots and his host hath he cast into the sea: his chosen captains also are drowned in the Red sea. The depths have covered them: they sank into the bottom as a stone. Thy right hand, O LORD, is become glorious in power: thy right hand, O LORD, hath dashed in pieces the enemy. And in the greatness of thine excellency thou hast overthrown them that rose up against thee: thou sentest forth thy wrath, which consumed them as stubble. And with the blast of thy nostrils the waters were gathered together, the floods stood upright as an heap, and the depths were congealed in the heart of the sea. The enemy said, I will pursue, I will overtake, I will divide the spoil; my lust shall be satisfied upon them; I will draw my sword, my hand shall destroy them. Thou didst blow with thy wind, the sea covered them: they sank as lead in the mighty waters. Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? who is like thee, glorious in holiness, fearful in praises, doing wonders? Thou stretchedst out thy right hand, the earth swallowed them. Thou in thy mercy hast led forth the people which thou hast redeemed: thou hast guided them in thy strength unto thy holy habitation. The people shall hear, and be afraid: sorrow shall take hold on the inhabitants of Palestina. Then the dukes of Edom shall be amazed; the mighty men of Moab, trembling shall take hold upon them; all the inhabitants of Canaan shall melt away. Fear and dread shall fall upon them; by the greatness of thine arm they shall be as still as a stone; till thy people pass over, O LORD, till the people pass over, which thou hast purchased. Thou shalt bring them in, and plant them in the mountain of thine inheritance, in the place, O LORD, which thou hast made for thee to dwell in, in the Sanctuary, O Lord, which thy hands have established. The LORD shall reign for ever and ever. For the horse of Pharaoh went in with his chariots and with his horsemen into the sea, and the LORD brought again the waters of the sea upon them; but the children of Israel went on dry land in the midst of the sea. And Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances. And Miriam answered them, Sing ye to the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously; the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea.

 

[Jim]

@Jim

Jim, you have worked very hard in perverting scriptures, shame on you. Jim, it is not even hinted in Paul's teaching in Romans 9-11, what you are wanting others to believe. Provide scriptures from Romans 9-11, to support your bias opinion, which only shows your hatred toward unconditional election of pure grace.

I'll come back if you can show scriptures to agree with your assumption, a pure assumption it is, if not supported from God's word, which it it is not.

Is it not a very strange act of God of wanting to show Egypt that he has chosen all the world, including Egypt through whom he was going to bring THEM a Savior by drowning them in the Red sea after He killed all the firstborn in Egypt? But more than that, before he drown them, God took off the wheels of their chariots, so they could not escape!

They would not let "HIS PEOPLE" go, which Egypt was not part of his people.

Are you seriously trying to claim that the label "HIS PEOPLE" indicates those were elect, chosen, for salvation? Red, talk about perverting scriptures.

Romans 9:4 They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. 5 To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen. 6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named."

Romans 9:27 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved,

Throughout the Old Testament, there are many occurrences of the label "HIS PEOPLE" and I don't think there is a single one that refers to those chosen, elect, for salvation. At most, it occasionally referred to national Israel, those of the circumcision. They were Israelites, "HIS PEOPLE", but not all Israelites belonged to Israel.

 

[Jim]

@Jim

Jim, you have worked very hard in perverting scriptures, shame on you. Jim, it is not even hinted in Paul's teaching in Romans 9-11, what you are wanting others to believe. Provide scriptures from Romans 9-11, to support your bias opinion, which only shows your hatred toward unconditional election of pure grace.

The very concept of unconditional election is a hoax. If God really had wanted to save according to a declaration of unconditional election, there would have been no need for His creation of this universe, this world of people, the vast majority of whom, in the end, will have been eternally condemned. He could have created the world of eternal life which, by His promise, is to come without the need of first creating this world. Unconditional election posits God who, according to the numbers, is far more glorified by those condemned than by those saved. And that is your rendition of pure grace.

 

[brightfame52]

Are you seriously trying to claim that the label "HIS PEOPLE" indicates those were elect, chosen, for salvation? Red, talk about perverting scriptures.

A remnant was chosen for salvation, but the entire nation were His chosen people nationally apart from other nations. Even as a national people He had made a distinction of them from other nations Deut 7:6-8

6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

They were a people God had chosen for the worlds Messiah would come from and save His Special remnant Israel of the election of grace from around the world.

 

[brightfame52]

The very concept of unconditional election is a hoax. If God really had wanted to save according to a declaration of unconditional election, there would have been no need for His creation of this universe, this world of people, the vast majority of whom, in the end, will have been eternally condemned. He could have created the world of eternal life which, by His promise, is to come without the need of first creating this world. Unconditional election posits God who, according to the numbers, is far more glorified by those condemned than by those saved. And that is your rendition of pure grace.

Sounds like you are questioning Gods Wisdom

 

[Jim]

A remnant was chosen for salvation, but the entire nation were His chosen people nationally apart from other nations. Even as a national people He had made a distinction of them from other nations Deut 7:6-8

6 For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

7 The Lord did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:

8 But because the Lord loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.

They were a people God had chosen for the worlds Messiah would come from and save His Special remnant Israel of the election of grace from around the world.

Israel, as God's chosen people were chosen for the purpose, the service, of bring the Messiah to the world. That is the message of Romans 9. Few of them were ever chosen for salvation.

 

[Jim]

Sounds like you are questioning Gods Wisdom

No, I am questioning your stupidity.

 

[brightfame52]

Israel, as God's chosen people were chosen for the purpose, the service, of bring the Messiah to the world.

Yes the Nation under the National Covenant was chosen to bring in the Messiah, I said that.

That is the message of Romans 9.

No its not

Few of them were ever chosen for salvation.

Yes from the nation it was always a small remnant for salvation, thats what Rom 9 is primarily about

 

[brightfame52]

No, I am questioning your stupidity.

lol You will get answers shortly

 

[Studyman]

What are you trying to say? "Who was it that created God's Righteousness? Was it not the Christ "of the Bible".

I will answer your question.

Jesus said "But seek ye first the kingdom "of God", and "his" (God's) righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Isn't Christ Jesus, this same God who became a mortal flesh and blood human? Doesn't the Bible say that this Christ, before becoming a flesh and blood man in the person of Jesus, created all things?

So to Seek God's Righteousness, I don't seek Red Baker's adopted religious opinion, or Kenneth Copeland's sermons, or John Wesley's, or John Calvin's, or the Pope's, or any "other voice" in the garden God placed me in, even if they profess to know God. Right, wasn't that the mistake Eve's made? Going about to establish her own righteousness, refusing to submit to the Righteousness of God? Of course you are not allowed to answer.

I need only to Seek the "Word of God" that became flesh. The Lord's Christ Jesus. He is the perfect human, made perfect because as a man, HE chose of His Own Free will to, "Live By" Every Word that proceeds from the Mouth of God, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. And all men are instructed by Him to do the same. At least according to His Own Words.

The Righteousness and perfection in Him is truly the end goal for every one who believes. His Righteousness is truly "the mark for the prize of the high calling of God", that Paul and the Faithful Pressed towards. The Perfection that was "in Christ Jesus".

There is nothing more important to "strive for", "Seek for", "Labor for", that God's Righteousness, as Christ inspired it to be written;

Ecc. 12: 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.

And Paul confirms:

2 Cor. 5: 9 Wherefore "we labour", that, whether present or absent, "we may be accepted of him". 10 For "we must all appear" before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Same Gospel, Same God Promoting it.

But your posts don't represent this gospel at all. In fact, if a man "labors" to be accepted by God, or if a man strives to be diligent that he may be found of Him in peace, without spot, and blameless.", or if He labors to be a "Doer" of the Christ's Sayings and not hearers only, and live by the Word of God and not Red Baker, you ridicule him. You discourage him, accuse him of trying to save himself. You really should be ashamed, but you are not. And this because you only seek justification for your own righteousness, not God's Righteousness. Truly a conscious seared by a hot iron.

That is not what it means when the scriptures declares that Christ is the "END OF THE LAW" for righteousness!

"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness".................​

Rom. 10: 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ (Not the Pharisees) is the end (Goal, intent, point aimed at) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

End, τέλος telos; From a primary tello (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly, the point aimed at as a limit.

Jesus Christ is God’s "totally different way" of justifying men as righteous before a righteous God.

Yes, HE is the New Priest, of the Prophesied NEW Priesthood Covenant. The manner in which transgression of God's Laws was changed. No longer do we abide by the "works" of the Old Priesthood Covenant God made with Levi on Mt. Sinai, for remission of sins. We have a New High Priest, not "after the order of Aaron", but "after the order of Melchizedek".
But God's definition of Sin has not changed, at least according to Paul.

Rom. 2: 13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the "doers of the law" shall be justified. If course Paul isn't speaking about the works of the Old Priesthood required before forgivness.

This is the truth presented /taught in the gospel of Christ. Paul had already taught it (Romans 3:21-26; 4:23-25; 5:1-19; 8:1-4, etc. ).

The Gospel of the Christ "of the Bible" that Paul taught, was first given to Israel, but many didn't mix the hearing with Faith. Caleb did, Zacharias did, Simeon did, the Faithful did, but the mainstream religions of the world throughout Biblical History did not. As it is written.

The Law was never intended to save anyone by design or performance,

God's Law defined Righteousness. Eve was convinced, as you are, that God's Law doesn't define righteousness. That you are free to go about establishing your own righteousness, and refuse to submit to God's Righteousness, like Eve did, if you do so in Christ's Name. Jesus spoke to this very thing in Matt. 7.

1 John 3: 7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness "is righteous", even as he is righteous.

Not the righteousness men have gone about establishing, but the Righteousness the Jesus "of the Bible" said to SEEK For. The Righteousness HE walked in. The Righteousness of God that Paul teaches, was "revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith." Hab. 2:4

Paul was referring to the law of God, that he thought would give life to those who kept it, and he thought man by nature had that power to do so just as any proud Pharisees boast of doing, that he even thought he was fulfilling ~ what he did not know was just how spiritual that law was, that it condemned imperfection in thoughts deeds and words, which all of our best deeds have sin mixed with them.... Christ alone fulfilled the law perfectly from conception to death on the cross.

One of the most wicked, evil and destructive doctrines furthered by the promoters of this world's religions, is the teaching that the Pharisees were trying to please God, or earn Salvation by obeying God's Laws. This evil teaching has infected the hearts and minds of many, "who call Jesus Lord, Lord". It is so wicked that those who adopt it, must do so by convincing themselves to reject "EVERY WORD" Jesus, and His Father through the entire Law and Prophets, used to define the religious sect of Pharisees. To believe your adopted religious philosophy here Red, I would have to erase "EVERY WORD" the Jesus "of the Bible" spoke when HE defined the Pharisees religion.

I would have to erase Paul's teaching about them, how they refused to submit to God's Righteousness, going about instead to establish there own. How they had the Oracles of God, but didn't believe them. How that when they knew God, they didn't Glorify Him as God and their foolish hearts were darkened.

But because I believe in the Jesus "of the Bible", I understand that the Pharisees despised God's Judgments, and polluted His Sabbaths. Because I believe in the Jesus "of the Bible", I understand that the Pharisees taught for doctrines, the commandments of men, not God as you falsely state here. Because I believe in the Jesus "of the bible", I understand that the Pharisees full well rejected the Commandments of God, that they might walk in their own religious traditions. Not as your adopted religoin promotes, that the obeyed the " the law of God, that he thought would give life to those who kept it".

If I were to adopt your religion Red, I would have to deny the Christ "of the Bible", and adopt the religious opinion that the Pharisees Yielded themselves a servant to obey "the law of God, that he thought would give life to those who kept it".

What is sad, is that even though all this is all true, proven by EVERY WORD of Scriptures. It won't matter, because you are not here to Seek God's Righteousness, you are here to justify your own righteousness.

To listen to you, I would have to believe that Jesus and God and Paul and all the Prophets are lying me about the Pharisees. No different than the preacher of Eve's time, who professed to know God, convinced Eve that God lied to her. And that if I would only reject the Christ "of the Bible" and adopt your religion, "then my eyes shall be opened, and I shall be like you, knowing good and evil."

But I've already seen the movie. I'm going to believe the Christ of the Bible, and the Prophets in which His Spirit dwelled, and Paul who teaches bot Jew and Gentile, "

Rom. 6: 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but "yield yourselves" unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness "unto God".

 

[Red Baker]

@Jim

No, I am questioning your stupidity.

LOL~Oh Jim, get some rest tonight, tomorrow will be better.

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

I need only to Seek the "Word of God" that became flesh. The Lord's Christ Jesus. He is the perfect human, made perfect because as a man, HE chose of His Own Free will to, "Live By" Every Word that proceeds from the Mouth of God, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. And all men are instructed by Him to do the same. At least according to His Own Words.

Amen! Yes Christ did, of his own free will live by every word of God, Again AMEN! He did so on the behalf of God's elect.

But, @Studyman neither you , nor me, or any man that has ever lived, born of Adam's race, has a free will! Man is born in sin, @ enmity against God, not just God's enemy, but much worse, he's at war against God in his natural flesh!

But, I must wait until in the morning to answer your post, the Lord willing ~ and answer I will.

 

[Studyman]

What are you talking about that I am completely ignorant of? I have no clue. You are more than welcome to explain in detail.

Thank you for asking.

If you had read Isaiah 1:1-20, in search of God's Truth, you would find the Pharisees.

3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the *** his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider. 4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.

Paul and David describe them as "Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.

And yet every week they would offer to God, the blood of an unblemished, innocent life, as per the Law., to justify them of their wickedness.

10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah. 11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

But that isn't how God's Salvation works. What does God want from them?

16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; 17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. 18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. 19 "If" ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

The same thing Paul teaches. No willful rejection of God's Judgments and laws, are justified by "works of the Law".

But the evil deceiver, will try and convince me that Israel here, was trying to earn salvation by obeying "the law of God, that he thought would give life to those who kept it". Which is an insidious falsehood as anyone can see. If they were just willing to submit themselves to God's Righteousness, as the Law and Prophets, Jesus and Paul teach, like Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, the Wise Men did, it would go well with them.

But your post doesn't reflect any of this. In versions of the Calvinism religion, as you have stated, none of these men have free will. God created them to be destroyed from birth, HE withheld Faith from them, and then destroyed them for having no Faith. How men must hate God, to judge Him in such an evil way, that HE gave these men no choice but to rebel against Him, because God withheld faith and the ability to "Choose" HIM. And then He rebuked them, and punishes them, because they don't have Faith.

God actually tells them, "If" ye be willing and obedient, good will happen to them. But if ye refuse and rebel, bad will happen to them. And your adopted religoin teaches that this is a deception, that they have no free will to turn towards God or away from God.

How can a man promote such wicked judgment again God, especially when He told them, "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that "I have set before you life and death", blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

No Red, according to the post you don't have a clue. And the Word of God that could teach you doctrine, Correct You, reprove you, and direct you into the Righteousness of God, you reject and adopt instead, the others voices in the garden God placed you in.

Yes, the elect are justified by the faith and obedience of Jesus CHrist alone legally speaking, without the deeds of the law, or any commandment we have an active part in.

I see you completely ignored my questions one again. But it's worth bringing up again. Paul said:

Phil. 3: 5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a "Pharisee";

Now your post stated that the Pharisees were obeying "the law of God, that he thought would give life to those who kept it".

I asked you some questions concerning this philosophy you have adopted. Here they are again.

Did the Pharisees Submit to God's Righteousness, or did they go about establishing their own righteousness? Let's see if you can answer.

Did the Pharisees teach for doctrines the Commandments of men, or commandments of God? Let's see if you can answer.

Did the Pharisees full well obey God's Commandments, that they might keep their traditions, or did they full well reject God's Commandments, that they might keep their traditions. Let's see if you can answer.

By the Pharisees Law, should Jesus and Stephen live because they told the truth, or die because they told the truth? Let's see if you can answer.

When Paul was a Pharisee, was he walking in the Flesh, or the Spirit? Did the man Jesus walk in the Flesh, or the Spirit?

You know the answer to these questions Red. We both know that you do. But you can't answer them, and we both know the reason why.

Old Timer, it's not to late to "Come out of her, that ye be not partakers of her sins". You do have a choice, at least according to the Christ of the Bible.

 

[Studyman]

What are you talking about that I am completely ignorant of? I have no clue. You are more than welcome to explain in detail.

Thank you for asking.

If you had read Isaiah 1:1-20, in search of God's Truth, you would find the Pharisees.

3 The ox knoweth his owner, and the *** his master's crib: but Israel doth not know, my people doth not consider. 4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.

Paul and David describe them as "Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: Their feet are swift to shed blood: Destruction and misery are in their ways: And the way of peace have they not known: There is no fear of God before their eyes.

And yet every week they would offer to God, the blood of an unblemished, innocent life, "as per the Law"., to justify them of their wickedness.

10 Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah. 11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.

But that isn't how God's stated Salvation works Red. What did God, not Gamaliel or Wesley or Augustine or the Pope, but God say HE wants from them?

16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; 17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. 18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. 19 "If" ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land:

20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

The same thing Christ taught Cain and Abel, Abraham, Israel. The Same Thing Jesus taught, and the Apostles. No willful rejection of God's Judgments and laws, are justified by "works of the Law". Why? "(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the "doers of the law" shall be justified.

But the evil deceiver, will try and convince me that Israel here, like the Pharisees, was trying to earn salvation by obeying "the law of God, that he thought would give life to those who kept it". Which is an insidious falsehood as anyone can see. If they were just willing to submit themselves to God's Righteousness, as the Law and Prophets, Jesus and Paul teach, like Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, the Wise Men did, it would go well with them.

But your post doesn't reflect any of this. It promotes some version of Calvinism, as you have stated, that promotes to anyone who will turn away from God's Word and hear them, that none of these men have free will. God created them to be destroyed from birth, HE withheld Faith from them, and then destroyed them for having no Faith. How men must hate God, to judge Him in such an evil way, that HE gave these men no choice but to rebel against Him, because He withheld from them the ability to obey HIM. And then HE lied to them, by telling them is was a choice they could make And then He rebuked them, and punishes them, destroyed them because they didn't obey.

God actually tells them, "If" ye be willing and obedient, good will happen to you. But if ye refuse and rebel, bad will happen to you. But your adopted religion teaches that this is a deception, a falsehood, that men have no free will to "yield themselves" to God and be obedient to God or disobedient towards God.

How can a man promote such wicked judgments against God, especially when He told them, "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that "I have set before you life and death", blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

No Red, the post represents that men who adopt the philosophy promoted here, don't have a clue what Paul contended with. And the Word of God that could teach them doctrine, Correct them, reprove them, and direct them into the Righteousness of God, they reject as untrue and untrustworthy, except for a few carefully selected verses that can be wrested to justify this foolish philosophy. Men have chosen instead, to live by the words of the others voices in the garden God placed you in. And this you they can eat whatever their flesh lusts after, and exact their pleasures 24/7.

Just like Eve did.

Yes, the elect are justified by the faith and obedience of Jesus CHrist alone legally speaking, without the deeds of the law, or any commandment we have an active part in.

I see you completely ignored my questions once again. But it's worth bringing up again. Paul said:

Phil. 3: 5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a "Pharisee";

Now your post stated, what is represented by this world's religions, that the Pharisees were obeying "the law of God, that he thought would give life to those who kept it".

I asked you some questions concerning this philosophy you have adopted. Here they are again.

Did the Pharisees Submit to God's Righteousness, or did they go about establishing their own righteousness? Let's see if you can answer.

Did the Pharisees teach for doctrines the Commandments of men, or commandments of God? Let's see if you can answer.

Did the Pharisees full well obey God's Commandments, that they might keep their traditions, or did they full well reject God's Commandments, that they might keep their traditions. Let's see if you can answer.

By the Pharisees Law, should Jesus and Stephen live because they told the truth, or die because they told the truth? Let's see if you can answer.

When Paul was a Pharisee, was he walking in the Flesh, or the Spirit? Did the man Jesus walk in the Flesh, or the Spirit?

You know the answer to these questions Red. We both know that you do. But you can't answer them, and we both know the reason why.

Old Timer, it's not to late to "Come out of her, that ye be not partakers of her sins". You do have a choice, at least according to the Christ of the Bible. You will be broken, suffer humiliation, and this world's religions will hate you and mock you as they mocked members of the Church of God since Abel.

Or at the very least, answer the questions posed, and STOP promoting the insidious falsehood that Paul, as a Pharisee, obeyed the " "the law of God, that he thought would give life to those who kept it".

 

[civic]

Are you seriously trying to claim that the label "HIS PEOPLE" indicates those were elect, chosen, for salvation? Red, talk about perverting scriptures.

Romans 9:4 They are Israelites, and to them belong the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises. 5 To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen. 6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named."

Romans 9:27 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: "Though the number of the sons of Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will be saved,

Throughout the Old Testament, there are many occurrences of the label "HIS PEOPLE" and I don't think there is a single one that refers to those chosen, elect, for salvation. At most, it occasionally referred to national Israel, those of the circumcision. They were Israelites, "HIS PEOPLE", but not all Israelites belonged to Israel.

Yes most of “ His People” the elect all died in unbelief . So much for Gods elect who were not saved. This as we see is just another example of perverting scripture.

 

[Jim]

Yes from the nation it was always a small remnant for salvation, thats what Rom 9 is primarily about

No, absolutely not. The primary message is that God's elect nation Israel was elect for service; the service of bringing the Messiah and the plan of salvation to earth. The potter and clay metaphor was God making Israel for his purpose; it was not a metaphor for salvation. God's power is shown by how He used people and nations here in this world; His power cannot be shown by any He saves. Salvation is not observable.

 

[Studyman]

@Studyman

Amen! Yes Christ did, of his own free will live by every word of God, Again AMEN! He did so on the behalf of God's elect.

Your adopted representation of "God's Elect", and the Holy Scriptures representation of God's Elect, are two completely different representations.

But, @Studyman neither you , nor me, or any man that has ever lived, born of Adam's race, has a free will!

God's Word is not a Lie Red. Men refuse to humble themselves and "yield themselves" to this one Truth. God doesn't make men believe HE is Lying or make them believe HE is not lying, like Eve, men come to this belief by their free will choice. At least according the God "of the Bible".

Man is born in sin, @ enmity against God, not just God's enemy, but much worse, he's at war against God in his natural flesh!

Again, you omit the most relevant point Paul was making, in order to justify your adopted religion. I don't judge you, as we were both taught to do this by this world's religious system. It's not a judgment against you, it's simply an observation, like if your fly was open, I would tell you that as well, not for my well being, but for yours.. Let's hear what Paul actually taught.

Rom. 8: 5 For they that are "after the flesh" do mind the things of the flesh (Of Man) but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. (of God) Jesus told Peter the same thing. "for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

6 For to be carnally "minded" is death; but to be spiritually "minded" is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal "mind" is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Now you have been taught, and are promoting to others, that men have no choice but to be "Carnal Minded", and there is no such thing as a Spiritually minded man. So it is true that YOU are fighting against God. You lust to eat what God said not to eat, you want to do what you want to do every day. What God made Holy means nothing to you, or any carnally minded man. So yes, you are the enemy of God.

But according to Paul, those men who chose to "Yield themselves" a servant to obey God, (Body of Christ) are not carnally minded.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

They are not the enemy of God because they "yield themselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and their bodies as instruments of righteousness unto God."


It is true that all beings with free will, "MUST" place limitations of their free will in order to prosper. God instructed Eve as to a limitation HE wanted her to place on her own free will, but it was her choice to obey or not, as God created her with free will.

There is NO Kingdom filled with free will beings, that can survive unless the free will beings places limitations on their own free will. God Himself, has free will. But Even God places limitations on His Own free will, for the good of others in His Kingdom. He is a Just God, a patient and longsuffering God, brutally honest God. No one forces Him to be a Just, patient and honest God, He places these limitation on His Own Free Will, of His own free will. Jesus, by His Own Free will, placed limitations on His Free Will, limitations given Him by His Father. No one forced Jesus to be humble, caring or compassionate and obedient. HE had a choice, and HE "CHOSE" to trust God to guide Him, not His own human emotion. No one forced Him.

It is precisely "BECAUSE" humans have free will, that God gave us Limitations (Law) to begin with. Just as HE did Eve. The battle I have is not against God as it is with you, but against my own thoughts. My own desires, lusts, traditions must be ruled over in order for my house to stand. And not the limitation I create to place on my own free will, but by adopting the limitations that Christ instructs, therefore becoming a "Doer" of the Christ's Sayings, and not just a hearer.

2 Cor. 10: 4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

5 Casting down "imaginations", and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity "every thought" "to the obedience of Christ;" 6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

This is because nothing from without can defile us, only those things from within, our own thoughts.

It's right there, and we are free to freely discuss them, and I am eager to do so. But you my friend, are held captive by the Yoke of Bondage of this world's religions, and are not free to freely examine and discuss Scriptures, you are only allowed to justify your adopted religion.

I hope you might be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and "put on" the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

But it's your free will choice.

 

[brightfame52]

No, absolutely not.

Yes it is. Rom 9 is about the salvation of individuals Rom 9 27

27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

 

[Jim]

Yes it is. Rom 9 is about the salvation of individuals Rom 9 27

27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:

You are not a remnant. So then Romans 9 is not about you. Are you saved?

 

[brightfame52]

You are not a remnant.

A remnant is a group of people from the whole that God saves. Like a remnant according to the election of grace Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Rom 9 is about a elect remnant to be saved. God never designed for nor promised the entire nation shall be saved [from their sins] but a remnant. In fact Salvation in General from sin is only for a remnant. And that's a Gospel Truth, if that's not articulated in the Gospel, its a false gospel