What is death? Is it the absence of life?
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Diserner
Well-known member
1. Physical death is the cessation of biological and neural function.
2. Spiritual death is experiencing God negatively instead of positively.
3. Death as a principle or idea, is the ceasing of function, presence and power (sin "dies").
Humans are 3 part, we see that here:
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thess. 5:23 NKJ)
When we physically die, our soul and spirit depart to the realm of the afterlife:
22 "So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.
23 "And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. (Lk. 16:22-23 NKJ)
2. Spiritual death is experiencing God negatively instead of positively.
3. Death as a principle or idea, is the ceasing of function, presence and power (sin "dies").
Humans are 3 part, we see that here:
Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (1 Thess. 5:23 NKJ)
When we physically die, our soul and spirit depart to the realm of the afterlife:
22 "So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.
23 "And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. (Lk. 16:22-23 NKJ)
Complete
Well-known member
Hello @dizerner,
Thank you for responding.
I understand point No. 1: - and agree, that physical death is the cessation of biological and neural function. (very well put, by the way).
* You refer to 1 Thess. 5:23, in the NKJ, (but I will use the version that I am used to if you don't mind, which is the KJV):-
'And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly;
and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body
be preserved blameless
unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Faithful is He that calleth you, Who also will do it.'
(1Thess. 5:23-24)
* There is a figure of speech in this verse, where you have the repetition of the same letter or syllable at the commencement of successive words, found in Scripture which says, (quote),
* The return of the risen Christ at the time of the writing of the epistle to the Thessalonians was considered to be imminent: all that was required was the repentance and acknowledgement, by the nation of Israel, of the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah and King. So Paul prays that God will preserve their whole being, comprising of spirit, soul and body unblameable until the Lord's coming. In other words that they do not die before that event occurred: for if they did, then the body would go back to the dust from whence it came, and the spirit would return unto God Who gave it, and the, 'whole being,' would cease to be a living soul (psuche). But if they lived until the Lord's return then they would never die, (John 11:26), but would be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye: corruption would be changed to incorruption, mortality for immortality (1 Cor. 15:53). They would not have to endure the, 'unclothed.' state of death, for they would, 'put on,' their house which is from heaven. (2 Cor. 5:2-3) .
* You refer to Luke 16:22-23, and the story of the rich man and Lazarus, but that story was intended to illustrate the absurdity and hypocrisy of Pharisaic teaching, and not to teach concerning the state of the dead.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Diserner
Well-known member
Jesus was not dishonest or a liar.
He would not MISLEAD people EVEN with a parable.
His parables were meant to convey TRUTH—not misrepresent it.
Jesus meant these truths to be take at FACE VALUE, and that is SELF-EVIDENT.
Azriel
Well-known member
Death is the absence of life, you're gone and your body has become a lifeless corpse. You are a memory. Anything after that is speculation. If you're a Christian, we are told to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. All the other world religions have their own take on death.
civic
Well-known member
spot on !
civic
Well-known member
The Bible presents death as separation: physical death is the separation of the soul from the body, and spiritual death is the separation of the soul from God.
Death is the result of sin. “For the wages of sin is death,” Romans 6:23a. The whole world is subject to death, because all have sinned. “By one man sin entered the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned” (Romans 5:12). In Genesis 2:17, the Lord warned Adam that the penalty for disobedience would be death—“you will surely die.” When Adam disobeyed, he experienced immediate spiritual death, which caused him to hide “from Lord God among the trees of the garden” (Genesis 3:8). Later, Adam experienced physical death (Genesis 5:5).
On the cross, Jesus also experienced physical death (Matthew 27:50). The difference is that Adam died because he was a sinner, and Jesus, who had never sinned, chose to die as a substitute for sinners (Hebrews 2:9). Jesus then showed His power over death and sin by rising from the dead on the third day (Matthew 28; Revelation 1:18). Because of Christ, death is a defeated foe. “O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?” (1 Corinthians 15:55; Hosea 13:14).
For the unsaved, death brings to an end the chance to accept God’s gracious offer of salvation. “It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment” (Hebrews 9:27). For the saved, death ushers us into the presence of Christ: “To be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord” (2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:23). So real is the promise of the believer’s resurrection that the physical death of a Christian is called “sleep” (1 Corinthians 15:51; 1 Thessalonians 5:10). We look forward to that time when “there shall be no more death” (Revelation 21:4).got?
hope this helps !!!
Death is the result of sin. “For the wages of sin is death,” Romans 6:23a. The whole world is subject to death, because all have sinned. “By one man sin entered the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned” (Romans 5:12). In Genesis 2:17, the Lord warned Adam that the penalty for disobedience would be death—“you will surely die.” When Adam disobeyed, he experienced immediate spiritual death, which caused him to hide “from Lord God among the trees of the garden” (Genesis 3:8). Later, Adam experienced physical death (Genesis 5:5).
On the cross, Jesus also experienced physical death (Matthew 27:50). The difference is that Adam died because he was a sinner, and Jesus, who had never sinned, chose to die as a substitute for sinners (Hebrews 2:9). Jesus then showed His power over death and sin by rising from the dead on the third day (Matthew 28; Revelation 1:18). Because of Christ, death is a defeated foe. “O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?” (1 Corinthians 15:55; Hosea 13:14).
For the unsaved, death brings to an end the chance to accept God’s gracious offer of salvation. “It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment” (Hebrews 9:27). For the saved, death ushers us into the presence of Christ: “To be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord” (2 Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:23). So real is the promise of the believer’s resurrection that the physical death of a Christian is called “sleep” (1 Corinthians 15:51; 1 Thessalonians 5:10). We look forward to that time when “there shall be no more death” (Revelation 21:4).got?
hope this helps !!!
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This!
Complete
Well-known member
Subject Heading: 'What is death? Is it the absence of life?'
No, our Lord would not mislead, I agree: but this is not a parable. He is not seeking to convey truth, but to expose the traditions and teaching of the Pharisees. Who had brought the Babylonian concept of Abraham's Bosom from their captivity there, and incorporated it into their teaching, He exposes their teaching in regard to the Law and the Prophets, starting with what they taught concerning divorce (v.18), and then regarding the state of the dead (v.v. 19-23). For their teaching denied the truth found in the Scriptures:-
(Psa. 6:5; Psa. 30:9; Psa. 31:17; Psa. 88:11; Psa. 115:17; Psa. 146:4; Eccles. 9:67 10; Eccles.12:7; Isa. 38:17-19 & chapter)
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Hello @dizerner,
No, our Lord would not mislead, I agree: but this is not a parable. He is not seeking to convey truth, but to expose the traditions and teaching of the Pharisees. Who had brought the Babylonian concept of Abraham's Bosom from their captivity there, and incorporated it into their teaching, He exposes their teaching in regard to the Law and the Prophets, starting with what they taught concerning divorce (v.18), and then regarding the state of the dead (v.v. 19-23). For their teaching denied the truth found in the Scriptures:-
(Psa. 6:5; Psa. 30:9; Psa. 31:17; Psa. 88:11; Psa. 115:17; Psa. 146:4; Eccles. 9:67 10; Eccles.12:7; Isa. 38:17-19 & chapter)
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Brakelite
Active member
First error is believing the first false prophet when he said to Eve, "ye shall not surely die". And Christian preachers have been repeating that lie, along with every pagan witchdoctor, necromancer, spiritualist and soothsayer in the occult world. The lie, that man is immortal, had given birth to the greatest blasphemy of all... Eternal torment.
Brakelite
Active member
What is death?
KJV 1 John 5:12
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
KJV Romans 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
KJV Romans 2:7
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
KJV Genesis 3:22-24
22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
KJV 1 John 5:12
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
KJV Romans 6:23
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
KJV Romans 2:7
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
KJV Genesis 3:22-24
22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
Brakelite
Active member
What is death?
KJV John 11:11-14
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
KJV John 11:11-14
11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
Death is separation from that which gives life.
Physical death is separation of the soul (which gives life) from the body (that which is alive)(James 2:26).
Spiritual death is separation of God (which gives life) from the soul (that which is alive)(Gen 3:3-4). God meant spiritual death, but Satan twisted it to mean physical death. Adam and Eve did not physically die until 900+ years later, but they died spiritually the instant they touched the tree and its fruit.
civic
Well-known member
Yet they were still talking with God after they sinned. If they were spiritually dead how could they still talk with God ?
Complete
Well-known member
'And so it is written,
The first man Adam was made a living soul;
the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual,
but that which is natural;
and afterward that which is spiritual.
The first man is of the earth, earthy:
the second man is the Lord from heaven.'
(1Cor. 15:45-47)
Hello @Doug Brents,
With respect, how could Adam and Eve die spiritually, when they were not spiritual? They were, 'natural,' 'of the earth', 'earthy', in contrast with our Lord Jesus Christ, who was 'spiritual', 'the Lord from heaven'.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Doug Brents
Well-known member
They were spiritually dead (cut off from the relationship with God). Spiritual death does not mean that the soul ceases to exist.
As the branch of a plant when cut off from the tree may still appear alive for a while, and continue to function as if it is alive, so too man's soul remains functional until it is thrown into the fire of Hell at Judgement.
civic
Well-known member
It doesn't say they were cut off from a relationship with God anywhere. They were still communicating with God after they sinned.
Doug Brents
Well-known member
God is a spirit (John 4:24), and man was made in His image. God is not physical, so our being in His image could not be a physical image. Jesus was born in the image of Adam (physical), but He was a spirit first, and was still in union with God.'And so it is written,
The first man Adam was made a living soul;
the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual,
but that which is natural;
and afterward that which is spiritual.
The first man is of the earth, earthy:
the second man is the Lord from heaven.'
(1Cor. 15:45-47)
Hello @Doug Brents,
With respect, how could Adam and Eve die spiritually, when they were not spiritual? They were, 'natural,' 'of the earth', 'earthy', in contrast with our Lord Jesus Christ, who was 'spiritual', 'the Lord from heaven'.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
