What do JW's Believe ?

[TibiasDad]

Try believing the bible--oh you can't, you use altered translations, altered by satans will to mislead. Even the trinity scholars know 100% at Isaiah 44:6=Gods truth--I am YHVH(Jehovah) beside ME ( NOT WE) there is no other God.

God is One, and the most common word for God is Elohim , which is plural!

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Yes Theos to the Word and Theon to the true God-Why--In both cases John 1:1-2Cor 4:4-Theon= God--Theos= god. 100% fact.

θεόν and Θεός are the same word and mean the same thing! Their cases indicate a change of role grammatically (direct object vs subject) not a change of meaning.

The placement of Θεός in the third clause is before the verb and doesn’t require an article. See this article excerpt from https://www.ntgreek.org/answers/answer-frame-john1_1.htm

The Predicate Coming Before the Subject Also, this phrase in John 1:1 is an example of a predicate nominative coming first in the sentence, before the subject. (Sentences like this one that use a linking verb require the noun in the predicate part of the sentence to be in the nominative case. Thus the phrase 'predicate nominative'.) The subject of this clause is ‘the Word’ and the predicate is ‘God’. In Greek, the word ‘God’ comes before the word ‘Word’. According to normal Greek usage (Colwell's Rule), the word ‘God’ should not have a definite article. Oftentimes, emphasis is shown in Greek by placing a word out of its normal, expected word order. Special emphasis is shown when the predicate comes first in the sentence. In other words, contrary to the thought that ‘since there is no definite article used here it could belittle the fact of the Word being God’, the fact that the word ‘God’ is used first in the sentence actually shows some emphasis that this Logos (Word) was in fact God in its nature. However, since it does not have the definite article, it does indicate that this Word was not the same ‘person’ as the Father God, but has the same ‘essence’ and ‘nature’.

 

[synergy]

However, since it does not have the definite article, it does indicate that this Word was not the same ‘person’ as the Father God, but has the same ‘essence’ and ‘nature’.

Exactly! All these facts of the Greek language are going to be tossed out the window by those who purposely want to protect their heresies at all cost. I'm talking about JWs.

 

[Capbook]

At 1John 5:20--The true one is being called God, not Jesus, they are spoken of separate. Jesus is the true ones son=not God. The true one is God.

Ok, again differentiate this two "θεος" and Θεοῦ.
Who this "Θεοῦ" refer to in John 1:1? To the Father or to Jesus?
Who this "θεος" refer to in John 1:1? To the Father or to Jesus?

 

[Keiw1]

God is One, and the most common word for God is Elohim , which is plural!

Doug

In the Hebrew language-Elohim translates-the supreme one for the true God= nothing plural about it for him.

 

[Keiw1]

θεόν and Θεός are the same word and mean the same thing! Their cases indicate a change of role grammatically (direct object vs subject) not a change of meaning.

The placement of Θεός in the third clause is before the verb and doesn’t require an article. See this article excerpt from https://www.ntgreek.org/answers/answer-frame-john1_1.htm

The Predicate Coming Before the Subject Also, this phrase in John 1:1 is an example of a predicate nominative coming first in the sentence, before the subject. (Sentences like this one that use a linking verb require the noun in the predicate part of the sentence to be in the nominative case. Thus the phrase 'predicate nominative'.) The subject of this clause is ‘the Word’ and the predicate is ‘God’. In Greek, the word ‘God’ comes before the word ‘Word’. According to normal Greek usage (Colwell's Rule), the word ‘God’ should not have a definite article. Oftentimes, emphasis is shown in Greek by placing a word out of its normal, expected word order. Special emphasis is shown when the predicate comes first in the sentence. In other words, contrary to the thought that ‘since there is no definite article used here it could belittle the fact of the Word being God’, the fact that the word ‘God’ is used first in the sentence actually shows some emphasis that this Logos (Word) was in fact God in its nature. However, since it does not have the definite article, it does indicate that this Word was not the same ‘person’ as the Father God, but has the same ‘essence’ and ‘nature’.

Theon was preceded by Ton---Ton Theon = The God--The Word was not called The God.

 

[Keiw1]

Ok, again differentiate this two "θεος" and Θεοῦ.
Who this "Θεοῦ" refer to in John 1:1? To the Father or to Jesus?
Who this "θεος" refer to in John 1:1? To the Father or to Jesus?

I am not 100% sure which is which. One is Theon, the other is Theos, but Theon was preceded by Ton= The- thus Ton Theon= The God, the Word was not called The God. Small god is correct for Theos at John 1:1 and 2 Cor 4:4=100% fact.

 

[TibiasDad]

Theon was preceded by Ton---Ton Theon = The God--The Word was not called The God.

The predicate nominative does not need the article.

Incidentally, the NWT has at least 9 occasions where the is no article, and yet they translate it as God!


Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

In the Hebrew language-Elohim translates-the supreme one for the true God= nothing plural about it for him.

Elohim is the “plural of eloah.” (NAS Exhaustive Concordance)

“Plural in number” (Brown-Driver-Briggs)

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Ok, again differentiate this two "θεος" and Θεοῦ.
Who this "Θεοῦ" refer to in John 1:1? To the Father or to Jesus?
Who this "θεος" refer to in John 1:1? To the Father or to Jesus?

There is no "Θεοῦ" in Jn 1:1…?


Doug

 

[Capbook]

I am not 100% sure which is which. One is Theon, the other is Theos, but Theon was preceded by Ton= The- thus Ton Theon= The God, the Word was not called The God. Small god is correct for Theos at John 1:1 and 2 Cor 4:4=100% fact.

Ok, though you understand that the "theos" refer to Jesus and "a god" to you.
Would you accept based on your understanding, that "theos" that refer to Jesus is the "theos" true God in 1 John 5:20?
May I request you to please read the Bible verses below before you response.

1Jn 5:20 And we know G1492 G1161  that G3754  the G3588  son G5207 G3588  of God G2316  has come, G2240  and G2532  has given G1325  to us G1473  thought G1271  that G2443  we should know G1097  the one G3588  true; G228  and G2532  we are G1510.2.4  in G1722  the one G3588  true, G228  in G1722G3588  his son G5207 G1473  Jesus G*  Christ. G5547  This one G3778  is G1510.2.3  the G3588  true G228  God, G2316  and G2532  the G3588  life G2222  eternal. G166 

1Jn 5:20 οιδαμεν δε G1492 G1161  οτι G3754  ο G3588  υιος G5207  του G3588  θεου G2316  ηκει G2240  και G2532  δεδωκεν G1325  ημιν G1473  διανοιαν G1271  ινα G2443  γινωσκωμεν G1097  τον G3588  αληθινον G228  και G2532  εσμεν G1510.2.4  εν G1722  τω G3588  αληθινω G228  εν G1722  τω G3588  υιω αυτου G5207G1473  Ιησου G*  χριστω G5547  ουτος G3778  εστιν G1510.2.3  ο G3588  αληθινος G228  θεος G2316  και G2532  η G3588  ζωη G2222  αιωνιος G166 

 

[Capbook]

There is no "Θεοῦ" in Jn 1:1…?


Doug

There is, see I colored it red in in the two I quoted;

Jhn 1:1 In G1722  the beginning G746  was G1510.7.3  the G3588  word, G3056  and G2532  the G3588  word G3056  was G1510.7.3  with G4314 G3588  God, G2316  and G2532  [4God G2316  3was G1510.7.3  1the G3588  2word]. G3056

Jhn 1:1 εν G1722  αρχη G746  ην G1510.7.3  ο G3588  λογος G3056  και G2532  ο G3588  λογος G3056  ην G1510.7.3  προς G4314  τον G3588  θεον G2316  και G2532  θεος G2316  ην G1510.7.3  ο G3588  λογος G3056

 

[Keiw1]

The predicate nominative does not need the article.

Incidentally, the NWT has at least 9 occasions where the is no article, and yet they translate it as God!


Doug

Only when God is spoken of alone in the paragraph, thus all know it speaks of the true God, but when 2 are called God and god, its why the difference of what they are called at John 1:1 and 2 Cor 4:4

 

[Keiw1]

Elohim is the “plural of eloah.” (NAS Exhaustive Concordance)

“Plural in number” (Brown-Driver-Briggs)

Doug

It can be plural , but its 100% fact-in the Hebrew language for the true God it means-the supreme one.

 

[Keiw1]

Ok, though you understand that the "theos" refer to Jesus and "a god" to you.
Would you accept based on your understanding, that "theos" that refer to Jesus is the "theos" true God in 1 John 5:20?
May I request you to please read the Bible verses below before you response.

1Jn 5:20 And we know G1492 G1161  that G3754  the G3588  son G5207 G3588  of God G2316  has come, G2240  and G2532  has given G1325  to us G1473  thought G1271  that G2443  we should know G1097  the one G3588  true; G228  and G2532  we are G1510.2.4  in G1722  the one G3588  true, G228  in G1722G3588  his son G5207 G1473  Jesus G*  Christ. G5547  This one G3778  is G1510.2.3  the G3588  true G228  God, G2316  and G2532  the G3588  life G2222  eternal. G166 

1Jn 5:20 οιδαμεν δε G1492 G1161  οτι G3754  ο G3588  υιος G5207  του G3588  θεου G2316  ηκει G2240  και G2532  δεδωκεν G1325  ημιν G1473  διανοιαν G1271  ινα G2443  γινωσκωμεν G1097  τον G3588  αληθινον G228  και G2532  εσμεν G1510.2.4  εν G1722  τω G3588  αληθινω G228  εν G1722  τω G3588  υιω αυτου G5207G1473  Ιησου G*  χριστω G5547  ουτος G3778  εστιν G1510.2.3  ο G3588  αληθινος G228  θεος G2316  και G2532  η G3588  ζωη G2222  αιωνιος G166 

When the true God is spoken of alone in a paragraph-Theos was used, because all know its the true God being spoken of. But when 2 are called God and god in the same paragraph, the only way to show the difference = Ton Theon for the true- God and Theos for god. John 1:1 and 2 Cor 4:4--translating is the same both spots=Theos= god, Ton Theon = God=FACT

 

[TibiasDad]

It can be plural , but its 100% fact-in the Hebrew language for the true God it means-the supreme one.

It is a plural form of the word. I do not dispute the meaning.

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

When the true God is spoken of alone in a paragraph-Theos was used, because all know its the true God being spoken of. But when 2 are called God and god in the same paragraph, the only way to show the difference = Ton Theon for the true- God and Theos for god. John 1:1 and 2 Cor 4:4--translating is the same both spots=Theos= god, Ton Theon = God=FACT

Always learning but never able to come to the truth… [sigh]