TULIP - Lorraine Boettner said prove 1 point wrong and its all wrong.

[civic]

Jesus said "you being evil give good gifts" and "no one is good."

Jesus did not say good people were forced to be bad by the devil.

Paul said "in my flesh is no good thing" and "all have fallen short of God's glory."

Let's avoid self-righteousness that blames all our personal sin on the devil alone, and admit we are the sinners we are, as the Bible tells us.

And Jesus "has my back" so a far better and more faithful supporter to many unjust claims on here.

I don't think anyone was advocating Flip Wilson theology- the devil made me do it mentality.

 

[civic]

T

total depravity is true of the carnal self which oppresses the soul.

The soul is not that Self or its fleshbody!

The carnal self, a foreign entity guiding the soul, is totally depraved.

Didn’t that doctrine originate with augustine with paganism and total depravity, original sin .

 

[e v e]

Didn’t that doctrine originate with augustine with paganism and total depravity, original sin .

The problem with Augustine is that he merged different contexts into one. So he didn't distinguish between the soul and the self; it's really evident in city of God where he'll say things, and then a couple of chapters later he'll completely contradict himself, so first he'll talk about how evil the demon realm is and how it is opposed to God's reality.... and then the next thing you know he's talking about it like it's part of God's reality... he speculates a lot. I have the book here and I'll post some quotes later that I used for my students to show this problem.... that he was confusing satanic things with Christian things.

 

[civic]

The problem with Augustine is that he merged different contexts into one. So he didn't distinguish between the soul and the self; it's really evident in city of God where he'll say things, and then a couple of chapters later he'll completely contradict himself, so first he'll talk about how evil the demon realm is and how it is opposed to God's reality.... and then the next thing you know he's talking about it like it's part of God's reality... he speculates a lot. I have the book here and I'll post some quotes later that I used for my students to show this problem.... that he was confusing satanic things with Christian things.

Ok thanks for sharing . I thought I read he plagiarized that book is that true ?

 

[Obadiah]

The problem with Augustine is that he merged different contexts into one. So he didn't distinguish between the soul and the self; it's really evident in city of God where he'll say things, and then a couple of chapters later he'll completely contradict himself, so first he'll talk about how evil the demon realm is and how it is opposed to God's reality.... and then the next thing you know he's talking about it like it's part of God's reality... he speculates a lot. I have the book here and I'll post some quotes later that I used for my students to show this problem.... that he was confusing satanic things with Christian things.

Very good insight and understanding. I've read the same thing about him. I think I read a post here today that agrees with you about Augustine and where he came up with his teaching. I'll see if I can find it and get back to you.

 

[Obadiah]

The problem with Augustine is that he merged different contexts into one. So he didn't distinguish between the soul and the self; it's really evident in city of God where he'll say things, and then a couple of chapters later he'll completely contradict himself, so first he'll talk about how evil the demon realm is and how it is opposed to God's reality.... and then the next thing you know he's talking about it like it's part of God's reality... he speculates a lot. I have the book here and I'll post some quotes later that I used for my students to show this problem.... that he was confusing satanic things with Christian things.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/how-augustine-corrupted-the-church-with-his-many-heresies.80/post-954

That link share some stuff that agrees with you about Augustine plus the whole thread is dynamite.

 

[civic]

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/how-augustine-corrupted-the-church-with-his-many-heresies.80/post-954

That link share some stuff that agrees with you about Augustine plus the whole thread is dynamite.

Eve knows allot about the Greeks and Augustine from that era

 

[makesends]

One must change the simple meaning of all, everyone, all the world, all men, all mankind, whoever, all people etc...... to mean some, a few, gentiles, jews. And we know if Scripture meant to say Jews and Gentiles it would say exactly that instead of all, everyone, all men, all the world etc.....

I do not have to change the meaning and can take Gods word literally and that He means what He says and says what He means.

1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 2:2 Have all the sins of the whole world, every individual in the world who ever was, is, and ever will be, been propitiated? Not even close. Everyone but universalists acknowledge that. And even a child, after they are past the age of literalism, instinctively knows by the context in which they are used, there are different uses of "world" and "all". So the argument given about Calvinists changing the meanings of these words is a strawman army. So what does world mean in this passage. Two possibilities and maybe both are applicable. All of the world (creation) in its restored state. All nations and peoples among the redeemed.

Hi, Arial! great to see you here!
There is another focus to the verse, and grammatically possible argument, in that Christ is the sacrifice, and no other for anyone in the whole world.

 

[civic]

There is another focus to the verse, and grammatically possible argument, in that Christ is the sacrifice, and no other for anyone in the whole world.

But he specifically pointer out He is the atonement/propitiation for our sins ( believer ) and not only ours but the sins of the whole world. And we know in 1 John the world is those opposed to God, all unbelievers.

 

[makesends]

But he specifically pointer out He is the atonement/propitiation for our sins ( believer ) and not only ours but the sins of the whole world. And we know in 1 John the world is those opposed to God, all unbelievers.

I didn't say the grammar demands it, but to my reading it at least indicates it, since the immediate context refers to our Advocate with the Father. (My emphasis in CAPS): HE is the propitiation for our sins, and not only ours but [HE is the propitiation for] the sins of the whole world. Thus, for anyone at all, only HE is the propitiation for their sins.

 

[civic]

I didn't say the grammar demands it, but to my reading it at least indicates it, since the immediate context refers to our Advocate with the Father. (My emphasis in CAPS): HE is the propitiation for our sins, and not only ours but [HE is the propitiation for] the sins of the whole world. Thus, for anyone at all, only HE is the propitiation for their sins.

Except thats redundant since all believers know its only through Christs sacrifice for their sins and in Him alone do we have forgiveness for our sins.

 

[makesends]

Except thats redundant since all believers know its only through Christs sacrifice for their sins and in Him alone do we have forgiveness for our sins.

Well, if that's the case, I'd have to say the Gospel must no longer be of interest to the believers.

 

[civic]

Well, if that's the case, I'd have to say the Gospel must no longer be of interest to the believers.

Sure it is since that’s how they are saved and it’s part of the great commission for every believer to share with unbelievers

 

[makesends]

Sure it is since that’s how they are saved and it’s part of the great commission for every believer to share with unbelievers

Then so is the fact that ONLY Christ can be the propitiation for anyone's sins. It is fact within the grace we have been given.