Transmitting The Fallen Nature

I haven't confused you, this was my point. As far as I remember our conversation, you and I agree we are born sinners therefore whose sin condemned us?

It was indeed another soul who sinned that caused innocent people to die. The only reason we didn't remain innocent is because those here grew up to commit our own sins.

Okay, it was an honest misunderstanding.

I rejected Inherited/Imputed Guilt in favor of Original Sin.

That is, babies are not pure and holy beings forced to bear Adam's guilt for what Adam did.

Rather, babies are born already sinful and spiritually dead because they are born in Adam, who was spiritually dead.

The difference may seem subtle, but it works out differently logically and morally.

See a full defense of OS here:

 
So Adam was sinful when He was formed? If what you say is true, then Adam MUST have been sinful when he was formed.

I never once said Adam had a sin nature.

A sin nature is not definitionally equal to volitional sin.
 
It wasn't God's spirit that was affected. Adam's spirit died, that is, returned to God who gave it. This is why we must be born of the Spirit. (Jn.3:3-6)

Prove that Adam had the Spirit of God abiding in him. He never had the spirit of God abiding in him. Adam was made a living soul.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Notice the contrast

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Don't believe something simply because you were taught it. Establish your premise.

Either Adam died in the day he ate or God lied and he died many, many years later and if he didn't die physically, then he died spiritually.

Adam was appointed for death. We know because he didn't die.
 
What you all who deny the sin nature need to understand, is sin is not something that requires mental intelligence.

Sinful attitudes are a spiritual emanation of the heart.
In Psalm 51:5 David, acknowledging his (not his mother’s) sin, says:

“Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.”

And in Ephesians 2:3 it is declared that

“…we all…were by nature the children of wrath even as others.”

And this tallies with human experience. Parents, do your children have to be taught to tell lies, steal, do unkind things, etc.? Certainly not. They do all that naturally. You must teach them not to steal, lie and be unkind. But why is it that they so naturally do what is wrong? Simply because they are your children! They were born with sinful natures as you were.

“By ONE man sin entered into the world, and death by sin… through the offence of ONE many be dead…the judgment was by ONE to condemnation…by ONE man’s offence death reigned…by the offence of ONE judgment came upon all…by ONE man’s disobedience [the] many were made sinners” (Rom. 5:12,15-19).

It all began with one act of disobedience, after which Adam and Eve fled to hide, not from each other, but from God. As a result all their posterity became totally depraved—“wholly inclined to evil and that continually,” as the Westminster Confession has it. (This does not mean that man can do nothing that is good by comparison with others, but simply that nothing he does can be pronounced good by a perfect and holy God.)

In the reading of our Bibles we have scarcely passed the account of the fall of man when we find that

“God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually” (Gen. 6:5).

And in Acts 17:30 we read that “…God…now commandeth all men everywhere to repent.”

This, of course, implies that all men everywhere are sinners.

AND SO DEATH PASSED UPON ALL MEN FOR THAT ALL HAVE SINNED
There is, naturally, the constant effort on the part of fallen man to explain his condition so that the responsibility for it will not rest upon him. Even those who theoretically accept the Bible account of the fall, frequently protest: Why am I to blame? I cannot help it. I was born with a sinful nature.

Such have failed to observe what Romans 5:12 clearly states, that

“death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.”

But some will object that we have just finished proving that death passed upon all because of the sin of ONE man. Yes, but we were all in that one man when he sinned. We all sinned in Adam. It is too soon forgotten by some that all of us were once in Adam, were part of him, have come from him, and that the sins we are now tempted to commit by our own fallen natures are but the natural fruit of that original sin committed by us all in Adam when he was yet a free moral agent.

The fact that sin and death entered the world through Adam does not excuse us; it but increases and clinches our condemnation for all Adam’s posterity were in Adam when he sinned—“and so death passed upon all men, for that ALL HAVE SINNED.”

Short and sweet.
Shalom.
 
THE LAST ADAM, A LIFE-GIVING SPIRIT
Thank God for “the second man…the Lord from heaven,” “the last Adam” who, in contrast to the first Adam, is a life-giving Spirit (I Cor. 15:45,47).

“For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive” (I Cor. 15:22).

But here we must be careful, for just as there are those who teach that the fall came about through Adam’s sin without any responsibility on our part, there are also those who teach that all will be saved by Christ’s death whether or not they trust Him for salvation in this life. This too is false for as we were constituted sinners in Adam, so we can be made righteous only in Christ.

I Corinthians 15:22, quoted above, is a stronghold of the Universalists. In utter disregard of the context they emphasize the words: “…as…all die, even so… shall all be made alive,” whereas the true emphasis lies on the words, “…as in Adam…even so in Christ…,” the “all” in each case referring to those respectively “in Adam” and “in Christ.”

Paul does not speak of the resurrection of all men in this chapter, but of that more glorious resurrection which only the saved shall experience.

He speaks of it as the believer’s hope (I Cor. 15:13-19). Immediately after saying “even so in Christ shall all be made alive,” he goes on to say: “But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at His coming” (Verse 23). The unsaved clearly are not contemplated here. He says of the believer’s body: “it is raised in incorruption…it is raised in glory…it is raised in power…we shall…bear the image of the heavenly” (Vers. 42,43,49). All this could not be said about the unsaved, nor could it be said of them that they are made alive in Christ. It is only the believer who is made alive in Christ:

“For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with Him” (I Thes. 4:14; Heb. 13:20).

Yes, “As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all [i.e., those in Him] be made alive.” They will not be raised merely to be condemned to the second death. They will be made alive in the fullest sense of the word.

To fallen man, then, God freely offers eternal life and perfect righteousness in Christ,

“Even the righteousness of God…unto all and upon all them that believe” (Rom. 3:22).
 
In Psalm 51:5 David, acknowledging his (not his mother’s) sin, says:

“Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.”

And in Ephesians 2:3 it is declared that

“…we all…were by nature the children of wrath even as others.”

Maybe you can reconcile this relative to the clear claim made.....

Heb 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

God blessed Adam and Eve and told them to multiply. You're not looking at this properly.

Adam was NEVER the final product to be made COMPLETED in the image of God.....

Think.... Adam never had the heavenly body. Never. He was taken from the earth. Incomplete. Maligable. Conformable. Targeted to be conformed in the image of Jesus Christ.

You don't have to believe what you've been taught by your sinful ancestors. Mine taught be the same.
 
Prove that Adam had the Spirit of God abiding in him. He never had the spirit of God abiding in him. Adam was made a living soul.

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Notice the contrast

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Don't believe something simply because you were taught it. Establish your premise.



Adam was appointed for death. We know because he didn't die.
I don't have to prove it because I have never said God's Spirit abided in Adam. That is something you have assumed I mean. Adam was created spirit, soul and body. When he sinned, his spirit (his spirit, not God's Spirit) returned to God who gave it. (Ecc.12:7) In that day he died, not physically but spiritually. God said in the day you eat you will die to die. (Gen.2:17) I believe what God said. His word is my premise.
 
Okay, it was an honest misunderstanding.

I rejected Inherited/Imputed Guilt in favor of Original Sin.

That is, babies are not pure and holy beings forced to bear Adam's guilt for what Adam did.

Rather, babies are born already sinful and spiritually dead because they are born in Adam, who was spiritually dead.

The difference may seem subtle, but it works out differently logically and morally.

See a full defense of OS here:

No worries. I shall check out that link so I better understand what you believe. :)
 
God blessed Adam and Eve and told them to multiply. You're not looking at this properly.
13:4 "Marriage is to be held in honor among all" There is no verb. If one supplies an indicative, "is," then the statement is against false teaching (cf. 1 Cor. 7:38, which made marriage morally inferior to celibacy or 1 Tim. 4:3). If one supplies an imperative, "Let. . .be. . .," as in NASB of Heb. 13:1, then it is an encouragement against the immoral tendencies of pagan culture (Heb. 13:4 favors this option).

"the marriage bed is to be undefiled" Marriage is a gift from God and the norm for all (cf. Gen. 1:28; 9:1,7). It is not sinful or shameful. The Greek philosophical concept of asceticism, the view that the body is evil and that to deny its wants and needs show a superior spirituality, affected the early church! And still does! The term "undefiled" is used in Heb. 7:26 to describe the sexual purity of Jesus, our high priest. It was used in the Septuagint to refer to adultery.

This warning against sexual promiscuity is surprising if this book is written to Jewish people. The Gentile culture of the first century was characterized by sexual exploitation, but not the Jewish community. There is so much about the historical setting and recipients of Hebrews that is uncertain.

"fornicators" The term in the OT means sexual relations between two unmarried people, but in the NT it has the wider connotation of sexual immorality of any kind. We get the English word "pornography" from this Greek term.

"adulterers"This refers to sexual relations between people, one or both of whom are married to other people. Sexual sins were a major concern of the early church because of the rampant immorality and worship practices of pagan culture (cf. Gal. 5:19-21).

"God will judge" God's judgment of improper human sexuality can be seen in Rom. 1:24-32; Gal. 5:19-21; Eph. 4:19; Col. 3:5; Rev. 21:8; 22:15. However, there are other passages like 1 Cor. 5:5 and 1 Tim. 1:9-11, which relate to believers who commit these immoral acts. The early church had to face immorality in the lives of believers and try to draw some guidelines.
1. they need to repent
2. other believers are to help them (cf. Gal. 6:1; James 5:16,19-20)
3. believers are not to be "best" friends with immoral believers (cf. 1 Cor. 5:9-13).
The Christian witness of morality, strong marriages, hospitality, and brotherly love are as crucial today as in the first century.

I stand by what I have posted.
 
I don't have to prove it because I have never said God's Spirit abided in Adam. That is something you have assumed I mean.

You said Adam died spiritually. That is what YOU said. It is not an assumption.

Adam was created spirit, soul and body.

That is an assumption on your part. We know you are wrong because of what Paul stated.

1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Why didn't you deal with this when I posted it?

When he sinned, his spirit (his spirit, not God's Spirit) returned to God who gave it. (Ecc.12:7) In that day he died, not physically but spiritually. God said in the day you eat you will die to die. (Gen.2:17) I believe what God said. His word is my premise.

I understood your claim. I've heard the claim my entire life. The verse you claim do not establish your position.

There are concepts of dichotomy and trichotomy here. Adam was a living soul. There is no indication of everlasting life in Adam from the beginning. None.

Yet you are insisting this is true by claiming that Adam spiritually died.
 
There is no indication of everlasting life in Adam from the beginning. None.

Really.

Do you think Adam knew Jesus?

Do you think when they walked in the cool of the day, they were 20 feet away, kept their eyes down, and never said a word?

And this is eternal life, that they may know You (Jn. 17:3 NKJ)
 
No.



Yes, I think Christ was able to sin, he had free will.
His Person is Divine. He was Impeccable as the Father and Holy Spirit are Impeccable. You have a god who was mutable denying the immutability of God. You have many of the attributes of God incorrect in your theology.

Hope this helps !!!
 
Really.

Do you think Adam knew Jesus?

Do you think when they walked in the cool of the day, they were 20 feet away, kept their eyes down, and never said a word?

And this is eternal life, that they may know You (Jn. 17:3 NKJ)
A misuse abuse of the verse. Eternal life is a NT concept. Just the same as the indwelling Holy Spirit is a NT concept.
 
A misuse abuse of the verse. Eternal life is a NT concept. Just the same as the indwelling Holy Spirit is a NT concept.

Absurd.

I literally just quote WHAT THE VERSE SAYS.

And you call that: "abuse."

LOL.
 
His Person is Divine. He was Impeccable as the Father and Holy Spirit are Impeccable. You have a god who was mutable denying the immutability of God. You have many of the attributes of God incorrect in your theology.

No, I don't.

I just stop CHANGING Scripture to fit what theology books say.
 
Back
Top Bottom