No, I do not reject grace salvation. I reject your faulty description and definition of grace salvation.
Thou Shalt Be Saved - An Exposition of Romans 10:9
- Thread starter brightfame52
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brightfame52
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TibiasDad
Active Member
My point is only that the two are not the same thing. They are interrelated but not synonymous in their being.
Sometimes the heart does what the mind knows is wrong. Sometimes the heart rejects what the mind believes is correct. That’s not possible if they are the same thing; if they are different words for the same thing.
Doug
Dizerner
Active Member
This is not some Calvinist distinctive.
Calvinists have a very vocal presence online, much more than their percentage elsewhere, and so things get "branded."
Scripture definitely separates out the spirit and the soul as two distinct things.
The ancients believed the core of a person was located in their intestines and not their heads, because they so deeply felt things.
We must know we have a spiritual dimension beyond our mental understanding, and belief is deeper than mere thought.
Titus
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Your mind has a conscience. We can go against our heart/mind.
Titus
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That's not being challenged.
The heart and mind is the subject matter.
Soul and spirirt are not one in the same in the scriptures.
Well, bless your heart.
Dizerner
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The mind and soul are definitely related here.
Some people say the soul is mind, will and emotions.
The "natural man" is definitely pitted against the "spiritual man," and natural in the Greek is literally the soulish man.
Which is also called the mind of the flesh.
It can be a challenging subject.
That is an assumption that I don't believe can be verified in scripture.
Again, an assumption. In both the OT and the NT when speaking of man, soul and spirit are often used interchangeably even though the soul and the spirit are not precisely the same.
Another assumption it seems to me. Soulish technically described any blooded animal including man. But only man has a spirit.
I don't know where you are getting that. Flesh denotes the physcial, the mind denotes the mental.
Indeed it can be a challenging subject. Given the descriptions going all the way back to Genesis and the creation, thinking of man as a triune being, we are souls, i.e., living beings (compare the Hebrew word, nephesh) in Gen 1:24 and 2:7), we have a body and a spirit. Blooded animals are also souls, i.e., living beings, they have a body, but not a spirit. It is in the spirit of man that he is in the image of God. Whatever qualities one wishes to ascribe to the spirit is conjecture, perhaps correct, but still conjecture.
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Dizerner
Active Member
I don't think you've done any deep dive word study into these words.
Flesh is not always used in a material way, it is used in a moral way.
Our physical bodies are not sinful, yet Scripture says the flesh is sinful.
The works of the flesh that Paul lists include many strictly spiritual attitudes.
"Soulish man" and "fleshly mind" are verbatim quotes from Scripture.
Dizerner
Active Member
Sorcery,. jealousy, envy, hatred, Galatians 5.
Really, no physical appetite is a sin in itself at all. The physical flesh is not sinful.
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, (1 Cor. 2:14 NKJ)
Here this is more accurately rendered:
But, a man of the soul, doth not welcome the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him, and he cannot get to know them, because, spiritually, are they examined; (1 Cor. 2:14 ROT)
Nearly all sin derives from the physical appetite, particularly when taken to excess, such as gluttony or drunkenness, or when forbidden by God, such as sex outside of marriage. Even Jesus was sent to earth in the likeness of "sinful flesh" (Rom 8:3).
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.
First, that entire chapter is Paul's declaration and defense of his, and the other apostles' and prophets', divine inspiration from the Holy Spirit. You, me, and everyone else is the natural man. Paul and the other divinely inspired apostles and prophets are the spiritual persons. That verse is so often mistranslated/misunderstood by those who think God speaks to them directly. He doesn't. We know that because those who claim that God or the Holy Spirit speaks to them directly so often disagree with each other on the very same topic or issue.
That is an absolutely terrible rendering. All human beings are men of the soul. Paul was a man of the soul.
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