No, I do not reject grace salvation. I reject your faulty description and definition of grace salvation.
Thou Shalt Be Saved - An Exposition of Romans 10:9
- Thread starter brightfame52
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brightfame52
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TibiasDad
Active Member
My point is only that the two are not the same thing. They are interrelated but not synonymous in their being.
Sometimes the heart does what the mind knows is wrong. Sometimes the heart rejects what the mind believes is correct. That’s not possible if they are the same thing; if they are different words for the same thing.
Doug
Diserner
Active Member
This is not some Calvinist distinctive.
Calvinists have a very vocal presence online, much more than their percentage elsewhere, and so things get "branded."
Scripture definitely separates out the spirit and the soul as two distinct things.
The ancients believed the core of a person was located in their intestines and not their heads, because they so deeply felt things.
We must know we have a spiritual dimension beyond our mental understanding, and belief is deeper than mere thought.
Titus
Active Member
Your mind has a conscience. We can go against our heart/mind.
Titus
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That's not being challenged.
The heart and mind is the subject matter.
Soul and spirirt are not one in the same in the scriptures.
Well, bless your heart.
Diserner
Active Member
The mind and soul are definitely related here.
Some people say the soul is mind, will and emotions.
The "natural man" is definitely pitted against the "spiritual man," and natural in the Greek is literally the soulish man.
Which is also called the mind of the flesh.
It can be a challenging subject.
That is an assumption that I don't believe can be verified in scripture.
Again, an assumption. In both the OT and the NT when speaking of man, soul and spirit are often used interchangeably even though the soul and the spirit are not precisely the same.
Another assumption it seems to me. Soulish technically described any blooded animal including man. But only man has a spirit.
I don't know where you are getting that. Flesh denotes the physcial, the mind denotes the mental.
Indeed it can be a challenging subject. Given the descriptions going all the way back to Genesis and the creation, thinking of man as a triune being, we are souls, i.e., living beings (compare the Hebrew word, nephesh) in Gen 1:24 and 2:7), we have a body and a spirit. Blooded animals are also souls, i.e., living beings, they have a body, but not a spirit. It is in the spirit of man that he is in the image of God. Whatever qualities one wishes to ascribe to the spirit is conjecture, perhaps correct, but still conjecture.
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Diserner
Active Member
I don't think you've done any deep dive word study into these words.
Flesh is not always used in a material way, it is used in a moral way.
Our physical bodies are not sinful, yet Scripture says the flesh is sinful.
The works of the flesh that Paul lists include many strictly spiritual attitudes.
"Soulish man" and "fleshly mind" are verbatim quotes from Scripture.
Diserner
Active Member
Sorcery,. jealousy, envy, hatred, Galatians 5.
Really, no physical appetite is a sin in itself at all. The physical flesh is not sinful.
But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, (1 Cor. 2:14 NKJ)
Here this is more accurately rendered:
But, a man of the soul, doth not welcome the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him, and he cannot get to know them, because, spiritually, are they examined; (1 Cor. 2:14 ROT)
Nearly all sin derives from the physical appetite, particularly when taken to excess, such as gluttony or drunkenness, or when forbidden by God, such as sex outside of marriage. Even Jesus was sent to earth in the likeness of "sinful flesh" (Rom 8:3).
1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.
First, that entire chapter is Paul's declaration and defense of his, and the other apostles' and prophets', divine inspiration from the Holy Spirit. You, me, and everyone else is the natural man. Paul and the other divinely inspired apostles and prophets are the spiritual persons. That verse is so often mistranslated/misunderstood by those who think God speaks to them directly. He doesn't. We know that because those who claim that God or the Holy Spirit speaks to them directly so often disagree with each other on the very same topic or issue.
That is an absolutely terrible rendering. All human beings are men of the soul. Paul was a man of the soul.
It should be noted neither the verse nor the passage
Romans 10:9–17 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all, who is rich to all who call upon him. 13 For “everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.” 14 How then will they call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how will they believe in him about whom they have not heard? And how will they hear about him without one who preaches to them? 15 And how will they preach, unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “How timely are the feet of those who bring good news of good things.” 16 But not all have obeyed the good news, for Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” 17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word about Christ.
say that if you are made to confess with your mouth by God “Jesus is Lord” and made to believe in your heart by the faith God installed in you, you will be saved.
And rather it bases it upon men believing the word preached about Christ.
brightfame52
Active Member
Believing is an evidence of salvation. If you make it a condition to get saved, you promoting salvation by works, you sure you want to go that route? Confessing the Lord Jesus is an evidence of salvation
Not according to this passage
And rather it bases it upon men believing the word preached about Christ
brightfame52
Active Member
Believing is an evidence of salvation. If you make it a condition to get saved, you promoting salvation by works, you sure you want to go that route? Confessing the Lord Jesus is an evidence of salvation
Still ignoring this
It bases righteousness and salvation upon men believing the word preached about Christ.
brightfame52
Active Member
Rom 10:9 was explained to you in the article.
civic
Active Member
The soul and the spirit are the two primary immaterial parts ascribed to humanity in Scripture. Discerning the precise differences between the two can be confusing. The word spirit refers only to the immaterial facet of humanity. Human beings have a spirit, but we are not spirits. However, in Scripture, only believers are said to be spiritually alive (1 Corinthians 2:11; Hebrews 4:12; James 2:26); unbelievers are spiritually dead (Ephesians 2:1–5; Colossians 2:13). In Paul’s writing, the spiritual is pivotal to the life of the believer (1 Corinthians 2:14; 3:1; Ephesians 1:3; 5:19; Colossians 1:9; 3:16). The spirit is the element in humanity that gives us the ability to have an intimate relationship with God. The word spirit refers to the immaterial part of humanity that “connects” with God, who Himself is spirit (John 4:24).got?
The word soul can refer to both the immaterial and material aspects of humanity. Humans have a spirit but are souls. In its most basic sense, the word soul means “life”; beyond this essential meaning, the Bible speaks of the soul in many contexts. One of these is in relation to humanity’s basic selfishness (e.g., Luke 12:19). The soul, as the life essence of the body, is removed at the time of physical death (Genesis 35:18). The soul, as with the spirit, is the center of many spiritual and emotional experiences (Job 30:25; Psalm 43:5; Jeremiah 13:17). The word soul can refer to the whole person, whether alive on earth or in the afterlife (see Revelation 6:9).
The soul and the spirit are connected, but separable (Hebrews 4:12). The soul is the essence of humanity’s being; it is who we are. The spirit is the immaterial part of humanity that connects with God.
hope this helps !!!
The word soul can refer to both the immaterial and material aspects of humanity. Humans have a spirit but are souls. In its most basic sense, the word soul means “life”; beyond this essential meaning, the Bible speaks of the soul in many contexts. One of these is in relation to humanity’s basic selfishness (e.g., Luke 12:19). The soul, as the life essence of the body, is removed at the time of physical death (Genesis 35:18). The soul, as with the spirit, is the center of many spiritual and emotional experiences (Job 30:25; Psalm 43:5; Jeremiah 13:17). The word soul can refer to the whole person, whether alive on earth or in the afterlife (see Revelation 6:9).
The soul and the spirit are connected, but separable (Hebrews 4:12). The soul is the essence of humanity’s being; it is who we are. The spirit is the immaterial part of humanity that connects with God.
hope this helps !!!
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