This sounds interesting

Before Day 2, it was all water where we now see air, the Sun, the Moon & stars.
I marvel at my own ignorance! I am appalled at my own historical, cultural, and denominational conditioning! What a mighty God we serve! What an awesome God has reached out to us (even in our rebellion)! The Bible is a balance of love and power; grace and justice! The more we know the more we know we don't know!

Here are the basic approaches of some helpful books:
Genesis 1-2 interpreted along the lines of modern science:
Bernard Ramm's The Christian View of Science and Scripture (good scientifically and theologically)
Hugh Ross' Creation and Time and The Genesis Question (good scientifically but weak theologically)
Harry Peo and Jimmy Davis' Science and Faith: An Evangelical Dialog (very helpful)
Darrel R. Falk, Coming to Peace with Science: Bridging the Worlds Between Faith and Biology (evangelical approach to theistic evolution)
Francis S. Collins, The Language of God
Fazale Rana and Hugh Ross, Who Was Adam?
Genesis 1-2 interpreted along the lines of Ancient Near Eastern parallels
R. K. Harrison's Introduction to the Old Testament and Old Testament Times
John H. Walton's The Lost World of Genesis One
K. A. Kitchen's Ancient Orient and Old Testament
Edwin M. Yamauchi's The Stones and the Scriptures
Genesis 1-2 interpreted along the lines of theology from LaSor, Hubbard and Bush's Old Testament Survey (Fuller Seminary OT professors)


"Literary device also is found in the names used. The correspondence of the name with the person's function or role is striking in several instances. Adam means "mankind" and Eve is "(she who gives) life." Surely, when an author of a story names the principal characters Mankind and Life, something is conveyed about the degree of literalness intended! Similarly Cain means "forger (of metals)"; Enoch is connected with "dedication, consecration" (4:17; 5:18); Jubal with horn and trumpet (4:21); while Cain, condemned to be a nād, a "wanderer," goes to live in the land of Nod, a name transparently derived from the same Hebrew root, thus the land of wandering! This suggests that the author is writing as an artist, a storyteller, who uses literary device and artifice. One must endeavor to distinguish what he intends to teach from the literary means employed" p. 72.
the theological implication of Genesis 1-11:

"Implication for Gen. 1-11. Recognizing the literary technique and form and noting the literary background of chs. 1-11 does not constitute a challenge to the reality, the "eventness," of the facts portrayed.

One need not regard this account as myth; however, it is not "history" in the modern sense of eyewitness, objective reporting. Rather, it conveys theological truths about events, portrayed in a largely symbolic, pictorial literary genre.

This is not to say that Gen. 1-11 conveys historical falsehood. That conclusion would follow only if it purported to contain objective descriptions. The clear evidence already reviewed shows that such was not the intent. On the other hand, the view that the truths taught in these chapters have no objective basis is mistaken. They affirm fundamental truths:
 (1) creation of all things by God
 (2) special divine intervention in the production of the first man and woman
 (3) unity of the human race
 (4) pristine goodness of the created world, including humanity
 (5) entrance of sin through the disobedience of the first pair
 (6) depravity and rampant sin after the Fall

 All these truths are facts, and their certainty implies the reality of the facts. Put another way, the biblical author uses such literary traditions to describe unique primeval events that have no time-conditioned, human-conditioned, experience-based historical analogy and hence can be described only by symbol. The same problem arises at the end time: the biblical author there, in the book of Revelation, adopts the esoteric imagery and involved literary artifice of apocalyptic" p. 74.

If it is true that one language was spoken in Genesis 1-10 (cf. Samuel Noah Kramer, The Babel of Tongues: A Sumerian Version, "Journal of the American Oriental Society, 88:108-11), then it needs to be clearly stated that it was not Hebrew.

Therefore, all of the Hebrew word plays are from Moses' day or patriarchal oral traditions. This verifies the literary nature of Genesis 1-11. Also see John H. Walton, The Lost World of Adam and Eve, pp. 58-62.

I would like to make a personal comment. I love and appreciate those who love and appreciate the Bible. I am so grateful for people who take its message as an inspired, authoritative message from the One true God. All of us who study the Scriptures are attempting to worship and glorify God with our minds (cf. Matt. 22:37).

The fact that we as individual believers approach the Bible differently is not an aspect of unbelief or rebellion but an act of sincere devotion and an attempt to understand so as to incorporate God's truth into our lives.

The more I study Genesis 1-11 and for that matter, much of the book of Revelation, I perceive it is true but literary, not literal. The key in interpreting the Bible is not my applying a personal philosophical or systematic grid over the text but allowing the intent of the inspired original authors to fully express themselves.

To take a literary passage and demand it to be literal when the text itself gives clues to its symbolic and figurative nature imposes a modern bias on an ancient divine message. Genre (type of literature) is the key in a theological understanding of "how it all began" and "how it will all end."

I appreciate the sincerity and commitment of those who, for whatever reason, usually personality type or professional training, interpret the Bible in modern, literal, western categories, when in fact it is an ancient eastern book.

I say all this to say that I am grateful to God for those who approach Genesis 1-11 with presuppositions that I personally do not share, for I know they will help, encourage and reach people of like personalities and perspectives to love, trust and apply God's Book to their lives!

However, I do not agree that Genesis 1-11 or the book of Revelation should be approached literally, whether it is Creation Research Society (i.e. young earth) or Hugh Ross's Reasons to Believe (i.e. old earth).

For me this section of the Bible emphasizes the "Who" and "why" not the "how" and "when" of creation.

I accept the modern science's sincerity in studying the physical aspects of creation. I reject "naturalism" (i.e. all life is a chance development of natural processes), but surely see process as a valid and demonstrable aspect of our world and universe. I think God directed and used process. But natural processes do not explain the diversity and complexity of life, current and past.

To truly understand current reality I need both the theoretical models of modern science and the theological models of Genesis 1-11. Genesis 1-11 is a theological necessity for understanding the rest of the Bible; but it is an ancient ANE literary, succinct, artistic presentation, not a literal, modern, western presentation.

Parts of the Bible are surely historical narrative. There is a place for the literal interpretation of Scripture: there was a call of Abraham, an Exodus, a virgin birth, a Calvary, a resurrection; there will be a second coming and an eternal kingdom. The question is one of genre, of authorial intent, not personal preferences in interpretation.
 
The time between Gen. 1:1 & Gen. 1:3 could have been very long or very short.
We have no Biblical way of knowing. (That is what I mean by "Day" 0.)

Others hypothesize that a human civilization lived in that setting,
but they would have done so without the provision of light, air or dry land.
Okay. I'm referencing Day "0" as the time before Genesis 1:1. Why does Genesis 1:1 have to be the origins of all things? The gap in knowledge I see is before Genesis 1:1. In fact, I believe God alludes to this lack of information when he answers Job in chapter 38.
 
The Heavens & The Earth...
We know from the finished product that it is the origin of the natural, physical universe, at the very least.
Once He accounted for (all) the stars, that became clear.

I don't understand how you establish this claim other than to simply state it is true. There are other possibilities. I gave you one. What is wrong with my appeal?

There is a very real problem that mankind has and it is often reflected in what they believe about creation. I believe we are just one of infinite creations established by an Eternal God. I can't prove it other than with logic and reason. God has loved us but we are not the center of God's existence. Do you believe we are the "center" or "focal point" of all things God has ever wrought? I don't. God does as He pleases. I'm grateful He loves me but I'm not alone. We should not carry this mentality into our theology. It can be destructive.
 
I agree on the book of Enoch. I'm not sure about 7000 years. Maybe 10,000. The issue with Genealogies is found in the large gaps between the beginning and Moses, and the gaps between the dispersion of Israel and Nemimiah. Paul warned about arguing over genealogies and how they gender strife. I'm not certain what we have is 100 percent accurate nor do I believe they need to be. There is enough room to see incompleteness.
I'm wondering about your claim of large gaps. What are you referring to?
My research into what Hebrew manuscript tradition remained accurate as to dates shows that the Masoretic is the accurate source. The LXX is hopelessly corrupted as to this type of material. For example, the original Daniel translation of LXX was so bad that it was replaced by Theodotian's translation down through today.
 
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The genealogies are sometimes used as yardsticks to estimate the age of the Earth
but I suspect that method might be prone to some really large errors because there
is no way of knowing for certain how long the Earth had been in existence before
Adam came along.

The thing is: the Hebrew word for "day" in the first chapter of Genesis is somewhat
ambiguous. For example Gen 2:4 which says:

"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were
created, in the day that The Lord God made earth and heaven."

The Hebrew word for "day" in that verse is yowm (yome) which is the very same
word for each of the six days of God's creation labors. Since yowm here refers to a
period of time obviously much longer than a 24-hour calendar day; it justifies
suggesting that each of the six days of creation were eras of indeterminate length,
and the terms evening and morning are merely index flags indicating the beginning
and end of each era.


NOTE: When you think about it; a strict chronology of evening and morning defines
neither a natural day nor a calendar day, rather, it defines overnight; viz:
darkness-- for example Lev 24:2-4. In order to obtain a full 24-hour day, we'd have
to define creation's Days as a day and a night rather than an evening and a
morning.
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I've never had a view other than old creation that I was taught as a kid in Sunday School. I'm always a little leery when they bring up new ideas and concepts. But I'm interested to learn other people's opinions on this one. I'm sure there's a ton of stuff online pointing out the various opinions. So I don't think i will do a deep dive in that area. But I will do a search in my Logos Bible software library.

Well after a quick search in Logos I found out I know absolutely nothing about the old earth and new earth controversy. Seems I thought the new Earth was the old earth. So this is definitely going to be interesting.

I'm an old earth theistic evolutionist.

Many consider that unsaved.
 
NOTE: When you think about it; a strict chronology of evening and morning defines
neither a natural day nor a calendar day, rather, it defines overnight; viz:
darkness-- for example Lev 24:2-4. In order to obtain a full 24-hour day, we'd have
to define creation's Days as a day and a night rather than an evening and a
morning.
_
That's not how the text is viewing things. The whole point is the relationship of the existence of light. The entire point of defining the day as evening-morning - the beginning is at the point of absence of light and then morning is the presence of light - all the way until the next cycle starts.
 
I'm wondering about your claim of large gaps. What are you referring to?
My research into what Hebrew manuscript tradition remained accurate as to dates shows that the Masoretic is the accurate source. The LXX is hopelessly corrupted as to this type of material. For example, the original Daniel translation of LXX was so bad that it was replaced by Theodotian's translation down through today.
And sad to say Theodotian was know for transliterating his translation.
 
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1Tim 6:20 . . Avoid impious and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely
so called:

Not all science is false. However, there are disciplines that fall into a category called
"theoretical" referring to unproven ideas and concepts in chemistry, astronomy,
geology, archeology, medicine, genetics, paleontology, anthropology, history,
literature, physics, engineering, mathematics, etc.

Impious babbling probably refers to science-sounding arguments deliberately
intended to discredit the Bible.

Vain babbling tells us that science-sounding arguments are futile; defined by
Webster's as trifling and frivolous, i.e. of no real practical use or value.

1Tim 6:20 is especially applicable to informal group discussions, i.e. forums, bull
sessions, and brain storming; conducted by people with a head full of scientific
opinions who likely haven't a clue what they're talking about.

For example: one day at work a man in the break room said it's arrogant to assume
there is no other intelligent life in the universe but that found on earth. You know
why he said that? Because he heard it said first by someone he admires, ergo: he
was perpetuating false science in the form of a respectable opinion.

People throw that kind of unproven stuff up to Christians all the time in attempts to
debunk their religion and prove that it deserves no more credibility than myth,
superstition, and/or fantasy. But seriously; don't impossible-to-prove scientific
theories deserve the very same labels?


NOTE: Galileo believed that science and religion are allies rather than enemies--
two different languages telling the same story. He believed that science and religion
complement each other: science answers questions that religion doesn't bother to
answer, and religion answers questions that science cannot answer.

For example: theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking understood pretty well how the
cosmos works; but could never scientifically explain why it should exist at all. Well;
in my estimation, the only possible answer to the "why" is found in intelligent
design; which is a religious explanation rather than scientific. Religion's "why" is
satisfactory for most folks. No doubt most scientists would prefer something a bit
more empirical.

But anyway: the creation story wasn't written for the academic community, nor was
it written for people who indulge in debating and perpetual bull sessions that never
get to the bottom of anything, nor for people who regard this book as just another
chapter of "Pride And Prejudice" to dissect in a Jane Austen book club; rather, the
creation story was written for the religious community.

"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that
what is seen was not made out of what was visible." (Heb 11:3)
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I'm wondering about your claim of large gaps. What are you referring to?
My research into what Hebrew manuscript tradition remained accurate as to dates shows that the Masoretic is the accurate source. The LXX is hopelessly corrupted as to this type of material. For example, the original Daniel translation of LXX was so bad that it was replaced by Theodotian's translation down through today.

We can discuss Daniel. I would enjoy the conversation. There are variant reads for most every manuscript ever found. Variant reads are an issue for every book of any canon.

The LXX came from am early Hebrew source. The translation of the LXX is just as reliable as the NT manuscripts written by Hebrews in Greek.

I referenced the LXX generically and was not appealing to the superiority of the LXX genealogies. I am simply witnessing to the discrepancy. We have to admit there is alternative information.
 
And I have no idea what that even means. Are you going to be able to answer this: "I'm wondering about your claim of large gaps. What are you referring to?"

It just means, instead of like translating the word, you just show a one-to-one correspondence of the original spelling.

Like instead of translating "hola" as hello, I just write "h - o - l - a" in the target language.

It's actually a more honest way to do it when you have no idea what it means.
 
That's not how the text is viewing things. The whole point is the relationship of the existence of light. The entire point of defining the day as evening-morning - the beginning is at the point of absence of light and then morning is the presence of light - all the way until the next cycle starts.
Agreed. This is difficult to deny. The rotation of the earth creating night and day establishes framework of understanding.
 
Agreed. This is difficult to deny. The rotation of the earth creating night and day establishes framework of understanding.
Well....at the point of the creation of light and the definition of Day and Night, there was no earth, sun, or solar system in existence at that point. Just pointing out an "inconvenient fact".
 
It just means, instead of like translating the word, you just show a one-to-one correspondence of the original spelling.

Like instead of translating "hola" as hello, I just write "h - o - l - a" in the target language.

It's actually a more honest way to do it when you have no idea what it means.
The point was - how is that even relevant to the difference between the original corrupted LXX and the replacement by Theodotian?
 
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