Dont listen to men, This is the inspired word of God Rom 8:8
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
This is about the unregenerate. Men in all their religous efforts if not regenerate, it doesnt please God, its just a show of the flesh
You ignored scripture as well as a Calvinist and another
Wrong as the Calvinist shows
7. Because. This is given as a reason for what is said in ver. 6. In that verse the apostle had affirmed that to be carnally minded was death, but he had not stated why it Was. He now explains it by saying that it is enmity against God, and thus involves a sinner in conflict with him, and exposes to his condemnation.
The carnal mind. This is the same expression as occurs in ver. 6 (τὸ φρόνημα τῆς σαρκός). It does not mean the mind itself, the intellect, or the will; it does not suppose that the mind or soul is physically depraved, or opposed to God; but it means that the minding of the things of the flesh, giving to them supreme attention, is hostility against God; and involves the sinner in a controversy with him, and hence leads to death and woe. This passage should not be alleged in proof that the soul is physically depraved, but merely that where there is a supreme regard to the flesh there is hostility to God. It does not directly prove the doctrine of universal depravity; but it proves only that where such attention exists to the corrupt desires of the soul, there is hostility to God. It is indeed implied that that supreme regard to the flesh exists every where by nature, but this is not expressly affirmed. For the object of the apostle here is not to teach the doctrine of depravity, but to show that where such depravity in fact exists, it involves the sinner in a fearful controversy with God.
Is enmity. Hostility; hatred. It means that such a regard to the flesh is in fact hostility to God, because it is opposed to his law, and to his plan for purifying the soul; comp. James 4:4; 1 John 2:15. The minding of the things of the flesh also leads to the hatred of God himself, because he is opposed to it, and has expressed his abhorrence of it.
Against God. Towards God; or in regard to him. It supposes hostility to him.
For it. The word “it” here refers to the minding of the things of the flesh. It does not mean that the soul itself is not subject to his law, but that the minding of those things is hostile to his law. The apostle does not express any opinion about the metaphysical ability of man, or discuss that question at all. The amount of his affirmation is simply, that the minding of the flesh, the supreme attention to its dictates and desires, is not and cannot be subject to the law of God. They are wholly contradictory and irreconcilable, just as much as the love of falsehood is inconsistent with the laws of truth; as intemperance is inconsistent with the law of temperance; and as adultery is a violation of the seventh commandment. But whether the man himself might not obey the law,—whether he has, or has not, ability to do it,—is a question which the apostle does not touch, and on which this passage should not be adduced. For whether the law of a particular sin is utterly irreconcilable with an opposite virtue, and whether the sinner is able to abandon that sin and pursue a different path, are very different inquiries.
Is not subject. It is not in subjection to the command of God. The minding of the flesh is opposed to that law, and thus shows that it is hostile to God.
Neither indeed can be. This is absolute and certain. It is impossible that it should be. There is the utmost inability in regard to it. The things are utterly irreconcilable. But the affirmation does not mean that the heart of the sinner might not be subject to God; or that his soul is so physically depraved that he cannot obey, or that he might not obey the law. On that, the apostle here expresses no opinion. That is not the subject of the discussion. It is simply that the supreme regard to the flesh, the minding of that, is utterly irreconcilable with the law of God. They are different things, and can never be made to harmonize; just as adultery cannot be chastity; falsehood cannot be truth; dishonesty cannot be honesty; hatred cannot be love. This passage, therefore, should not be adduced to prove the doctrine of man’s inability to love God, for it does not refer to that, but it proves merely that a supreme regard to the things of the flesh is utterly inconsistent with the law of God; can never be reconciled with it; and involves the sinner in hostility with his Creator.
[Calvinists have been loudly accused of “taking an unfair advantage of this language, for the support of their favourite doctrine of the utter impotency of the unregenerate man, in appreciating, much less conforming to the divine injunctions.” It is alleged that φρονημα της σαρκος refers to the disposition of the mind, and is properly translated, “the minding of the flesh.” Therefore, it is this disposition or affection, and not the mind itself, that is enmity against God. But the meaning of the passage is not affected by this change in the translation. For the apostle affirms that this minding of the flesh is the uniform and prevailing disposition of unregenerate men. “They that are after the flesh,” i.e., unregenerate men “do mind the things of the flesh.” This is their character without exception. Now, if the natural mind be uniformly under the influence of this depraved disposition, is IT not enmity to God. Thus, in point of fact, there is no difference between the received and the amended translation. To affirm that the mind itself is not hostile to God, and that its disposition alone is so, is little better than metaphysical trifling, and deserves no more regard than the plea which any wicked man might easily establish, by declaring that his disposition only, and not himself, was hostile to the laws of religion and morals. On the whole, it is not easy to conceive how the apostle could more forcibly have affirmed the enmity of the natural mind against God. He first describes unrenewed men by their character or bent, and then asserts that this bent is the very essence of enmity against God—enmity in the abstract.
To any one ignorant of the subtleties of theological controversy, the doctrine of moral inability would seem a plain consequence from this view of the natural mind. “It is,” says Mr Scott, on the passage “morally unable to do any thing but revolt against the divine law, and refuse obedience to it.” We are told, however, that the passage under consideration affirms only, that unregenerate men, while they continue in that state, cannot please God, or yield obedience to his law, and leaves untouched the other question, concerning the power of the carnal mind to throw off the disposition of enmity, and return to subjection. But if it be not expressly affirmed by the apostle here, that the carnal mind has not this power, it would seem at least to be a plain enough inference from his doctrine. For if the disposition of the unregenerate man be enmity against God, whence is the motive to arise that shall make him dislike that disposition, and throw it aside, and assume a better in its stead? From within it cannot come, because, according to the supposition, there is enmity only; and love cannot arise out of hatred. If it come from without, from the aids and influences of the Spirit, the question is ceded, and the dispute at an end.
A very common way of casting discredit on the view which Calvinists entertain of the doctrine of man’s inability, is to represent it as involving some natural or physical disqualification. Nothing can be more unfair. There is a wide difference between natural and moral inability. The one arises from “some defect or obstacle extrinsic to the will, either in the understanding, constitution of the body, or external objects:” the other from “the want of inclination, or the strength of a contrary inclination.” Now the Scriptures no where assert, nor have rational Calvinists ever maintained, that there is any physical incapacity of this kind, apart from the corrupt bias and inclination of the will, on account of which, the natural man cannot be subject to the law of God. But on the other hand, the Scriptures are full of evidence on the subject of moral inability. Even were we to abandon this passage, the general doctrine of revelation is, that unregenerate men are dead in trespasses and in sins; and the entire change that takes place in regeneration and sanctification, is uniformly ascribed not to the “man himself,” but to the power of the Spirit of God. Not only is the change carried on and perfected, but begun by him.
Albert Barnes, Notes on the New Testament: Romans (ed. Robert Frew; London: Blackie & Son, 1884–1885), 173–175.
and a non Calvinist
Calvinists sometimes offer these verses to support total depravity, but the passage has nothing to do with the capacity of unsaved people to believe the gospel. Instead of teaching that unsaved people cannot believe, this passage confirms that people cannot live completely in accordance with the righteousness reflected in the law and, therefore, cannot please God morally. Paul wrote to believers, and this passage occurs in a subsection (8:1-11) emphasizing our deliverance from the law of sin and death (8:2 explicitly says this). While our position is "in the Spirit" (Romans 8:9), our condition depends on how we choose to live. Believers will choose to either walk in the flesh or walk in the Spirit, and our mindset (thought life) will follow our condition. Those believers who walk "after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit." (Romans 8:5) And, in turn, our mindset affects whether we enjoy the benefits of being set free from the law of sin and death. Paul writes, "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." (Romans 8:6) The "death" here has nothing to do with the eternal destiny of non-believers, but the present experience of defeat and despair that carnally minded believers have. The reason they experience "death," Paul explains, is because a mindset on the things of the flesh is at odds with God ("the carnal mind is enmity against God"). (Romans 8:7) This should come as no surprise. The person living for purely physical things in a world that is passing away are at odds with God. Recall James' words to believers, "know ye not that friendship with the world is enmity with God?" (James 4:4) The person living for the world has enmity with God because his "carnal mind...is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." (Romans 8:7) We must understand as believers that we cannot have it both ways. We cannot fulfill the righteousness of the "law of God" and have our minds in submission to God's standards while having a mindset focused on the flesh. Now, we get to the linchpin of this passage for Calvinists. Paul writes, "So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God." (Romans 8:8) The position of being "in the flesh" reflects a non-believer (cf. Romans 8:9). Paul says a non-believer cannot please God, and in the context of the immediately preceding material, Paul means the non-believer is always at enmity with God because they cannot have a mindset that submits to the righteousness of God's law. And Paul's point for believers is that they have a choice to walk in the flesh or walk in the Spirit, and why would they ever want to walk in the flesh, experience death, and be at odds with God. Now, the Calvinist takes "cannot please God" out of context. Paul says non-believers "cannot please God" in that they cannot submit their minds to the standards of righteousness in God's law, but the Calvinist reads "cannot please God" to mean "cannot believe the gospel" or "cannot respond favorably favorably to God." But the passage does not say an unsaved person can never do anything good or never satisfy any part of the law; it says he cannot keep his thinking in submission to God's standards of righteousness in the law. And this is a far cry from saying he cannot believe the gospel. While the unregenerate cannot please God morally, God is pleased when sinners are saved by believing the gospel: "For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe." (1 Corinthians 1:21) The inference Calvinists force over this passage to establish total depravity is completely unjustified.
Smelley, Hutson. Deconstructing Calvinism: A Biblical Analysis and Refutation (pp. 104-106). Hutson Smelley. Kindle Edition.
And
The concept of Total inability from birth is refuted by
John 12:40 (NASB 95) — 40 “HE HAS BLINDED THEIR EYES AND HE HARDENED THEIR HEART, SO THAT THEY WOULD NOT SEE WITH THEIR EYES AND PERCEIVE WITH THEIR HEART, AND BE CONVERTED AND I HEAL THEM.”
Matthew 13:13–15 (NASB 95) — 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, ‘YOU WILL KEEP ON HEARING, BUT WILL NOT UNDERSTAND; YOU WILL KEEP ON SEEING, BUT WILL NOT PERCEIVE; 15 FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL, WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR, AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES, OTHERWISE THEY WOULD SEE WITH THEIR EYES, HEAR WITH THEIR EARS, AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN, AND I WOULD HEAL THEM.’
Mark 4:11–12 (NASB 95) — 11 And He was saying to them, “To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God, but those who are outside get everything in parables, 12 so that WHILE SEEING, THEY MAY SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE, AND WHILE HEARING, THEY MAY HEAR AND NOT UNDERSTAND, OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT RETURN AND BE FORGIVEN.”
Acts 28:27 (NASB 95) — 27 FOR THE HEART OF THIS PEOPLE HAS BECOME DULL, AND WITH THEIR EARS THEY SCARCELY HEAR, AND THEY HAVE CLOSED THEIR EYES; OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT SEE WITH THEIR EYES, AND HEAR WITH THEIR EARS, AND UNDERSTAND WITH THEIR HEART AND RETURN, AND I WOULD HEAL THEM.” ’
Hebrews 3:8–13 (NASB 95) — 8 DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME, AS IN THE DAY OF TRIAL IN THE WILDERNESS, 9 WHERE YOUR FATHERS TRIED Me BY TESTING Me, AND SAW MY WORKS FOR FORTY YEARS. 10 “THEREFORE I WAS ANGRY WITH THIS GENERATION, AND SAID, ‘THEY ALWAYS GO ASTRAY IN THEIR HEART, AND THEY DID NOT KNOW MY WAYS’; 11 AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH, ‘THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.’ ” 12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.
Romans 11:20–23 (NASB 95) — 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
John 20:31 (NASB 95) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.
Finally
It is the indwelling of the Spirit that awaits the glorification of Christ
John 7:38–39 (NASB 95) — 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
And seeing as they believed before Christ's glorification shows they were not regenerated by the indwelling of the Spirit before faith.
Luke 2:14 (NASB 95) — 14 “Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace among men with whom He is pleased.”
Ps 69:30–31I will praise the name of God with song And magnify Him with thanksgiving. And it will please the Lord better than an ox Or a young bull with horns and hoofs.
Prov 12:22Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord, But those who deal faithfully are His delight.
Prov 15:8The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord, But the prayer of the upright is His delight.
Mal 3:4Then the offering of Judah and Jerusalem will be pleasing to the Lord as in the days of old and as in former years.
Ps 40:6–8Sacrifice and meal offering You have not desired; My ears You have opened; Burnt offering and sin offering You have not required. Then I said, “Behold, I come; In the scroll of the book it is written of me. I delight to do Your will, O my God; Your Law is within my heart.”
