The Unconditional Election Debate: An Universalist Perspective

No you did not.
Yes I have. You know I believe man by nature is totally depraved by nature, in the flesh, dead to spiritual things, dead in sin and at enmity against God and so at enmity against Christ. I have showed you plenty of times over the years that Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22 and that Faith is the Gift of God Eph 2:8. When a man believes in Christ its by the power of God Eph 1:19

19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Peter also writes that the elect believe and have Faith by the power of God 1 Pet 1:21

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

So whatever scripture you fetch for one believing in Jesus, its by the power of God, the Grace of God, the Spirit of God.

Its a foregone conclusion whenever faith or believing in Christ is mentioned, its in regard to the elect regenerated.
 
Ive shown you plenty of scripture for that, whats silly is now you resort to sound bites
No you did not

That is a silly argument which ignores scripture showing faith precedes eternal life.

John 6:40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

John 3:15–16 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 20:31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

1 John 5:11–13 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

Further it shows that if one does not believe they cannot gain.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe

and you made the absurd claim
 
Yes I have. You know I believe man by nature is totally depraved by nature, in the flesh, dead to spiritual things, dead in sin and at enmity against God and so at enmity against Christ. I have showed you plenty of times over the years that Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22
Never have you shown saving faith is a fruit of the Spirit

Faith is needed before one can receive the Spirit

John 7:38–39 (NASB 95) — 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

No you did not

That is a silly argument which ignores scripture showing faith precedes eternal life.

John 6:40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

John 3:15–16 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 20:31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

1 John 5:11–13 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 3:36 He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

Further it shows that if one does not believe they cannot gain.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe




Nothing there about his power causing them to believe

Ephesians 1:19 (NASB 95) — 19 and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might

20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

Peter also writes that the elect believe and have Faith by the power of God 1 Pet 1:21

21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

So whatever scripture you fetch for one believing in Jesus, its by the power of God, the Grace of God, the Spirit of God.

Its a foregone conclusion whenever faith or believing in Christ is mentioned, its in regard to the elect regenerated.
Ephesians 1:20 (NASB 95) — 20 which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,

Nothing there about causing belief

Nothing in 1 Pe 1:21 speaks of men being irresistibly caused to believe.

And nowhere in scripture is your belief of being made alive so you may believe found

Bottomline nowhere do we read of regeneration as those who do not believe will not kind life
 
Never have you shown saving faith is a fruit of the Spirit
Sure I have and so have others, Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22. How did Peter write that they obeyed the Truth 1 Pet 1:22

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
 
Sure I have and so have others, Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22. How did Peter write that they obeyed the Truth 1 Pet 1:22

22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:
Sorry, no, saving faith is not mentioned in Gal 5:22

And faith in Christ is needed before one can receive the Spirit

John 7:38–39 (NASB 95) — 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:5 (LEB) — 5 Therefore does the one who gives you the Spirit and who works miracles among you do so by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

BTW most still translate

Galatians 5:22 (NASB 95) — 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
 
Yes it is and 1 Pet 1
Nope

Sorry, no, saving faith is not mentioned in Gal 5:22

And faith in Christ is needed before one can receive the Spirit

thus you ignore multiple verses

John 7:38–39 (NASB 95) — 38 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, ‘From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to receive; for the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:5 (LEB) — 5 Therefore does the one who gives you the Spirit and who works miracles among you do so by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

BTW most still translate

Galatians 5:22 (NASB 95) — 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,


The Spirit is received through faith

Unbelievers do not receive the gift of the Spirit


Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:5 (LEB) — 5 Therefore does the one who gives you the Spirit and who works miracles among you do so by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
 
Yes for faith is the fruit of the Spirit, the elect receives the Spirit when regenerated by the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
 
Yes for faith is the fruit of the Spirit, the elect receives the Spirit when regenerated by the Spirit 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
Nope

2 Thessalonians 2:13–14 (NASB 95) — 13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. 14 It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Salvation requires first faith and then sanctification of the Spirit

Galatians 3:2 (NASB 95) — 2 This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

Galatians 3:5 (NASB 95) — 5 So then, does He who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith?

Galatians 3:14 (NASB 95) — 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.


Do you not see

we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
 
Yes thats regeneration b4 faith. So whenever believing the Truth of the Gospel of Christ is concerned, it presupposes regeneration first.
Sorry regeneration is new life, and the Bible shows you cannot receive new life without first having faith

Those who do not believe will not see life

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
 
LOL, Hey folks I have one question after reading these riveting exchanges...

Whose on first?
 
I know what regeneration is
Then you are unable to understand

For one must have faith before receiving life

John 20:31 (NASB 95) — 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

John 6:40 (NASB 95) — 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
 
Its crystal clear regeneration is before and unto belief of the Truth. No Sanctification of the Spirit, no belief of the truth, we would be like those in Vs 10-12
Sorry, no, without faith you do not receive the Spirit.

you must have faith in the gospel to receive the spirit and be regenerated

John 7:38–39 —KJV

“He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)”

Gal. 3:2 —KJV
“This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?”

Gal. 3:5 —KJV
“He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?”

Galatians 3:14 (KJV 1900)
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
 
No sanctification of the Spirit, no faith in the Truth
First you ignored these

Sorry, no, without faith you do not receive the Spirit.

you must have faith in the gospel to receive the spirit and be regenerated

John 7:38–39 —KJV

“He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)”

Gal. 3:2 —KJV
“This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?”

Gal. 3:5 —KJV
“He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?”

Galatians 3:14 (KJV 1900)
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

second


2 Thessalonians 2:13–14 (NASB 95) — 13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth. 14 It was for this He called you through our gospel, that you may gain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Salvation requires faith and sanctification of the Spirit

It does not state sanctification of the Spirit is necessary before you have faith
 
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