The Thousand Year Reign

[Studyman]

Those verses in the Old Testament which seem to speak of His 2nd Coming are very likely referring to His 1st coming.

I was talking about Jesus' Own Words, that confirmed the Prophesies about the great Judgment, and the Holy One of Israel, who would preside over it. A Prophesy that is promised to Come, but has yet to be fulfilled.

John 14: 1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go (Which I believe HE did after HE was murdered and raised from the Dead ) and prepare a place for you, "I will come again", and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Matt. 13: 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

And the Christ Himself, in the very Last Book of the Inspired Word of God confirmed this Prophesy.

Rev. 22: 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give "every man" according as his work shall be.


Only a deceived person believes that these Word's of the Jesus "of the Bible" are talking about the first coming of Christ, a human, born of a woman, and coming as a Lamb to the Slaughter.

When men seem Him face to face the Next Time, it will be for Judgment, just as HE promised. And He prophesied about what Many Christians will say to HIM "in that day", when they are raised from the dead, and see their impending judgment. I'll Paraphrase what they will say, "Wait a minute Jesus, don't you know who we are"? You can read this for yourself in Matt. 7:22,23.

Peter pretty much said that in 1 Peter1:10-11 "As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you (Christ's First coming) made careful searches and inquiries; seeking to know what person of time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ (His crucifixion) and the glories to follow. (His resurrection and ascension to the right hand of God.)
Peter doesn't mention a seven year tribulation or a Millennium.

I never mentioned a tribulation or the Millennium. Why do you imply that I did?

Jesus Himself said the same thing: "O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in ALL that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things (His crucifixion) and to enter into His glory? (His resurrection and ascension to the right hand of God) Luke 24:25-26

Yes, He is the Christ, who came as a Lamb to the slaughter. When HE comes the 2nd Time, it will be in Power and Glory.

Jesus continues in verse 27: "Then beginning with Moses and with ALL the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in ALL the Scriptures."

Are you preaching then that Jesus didn't also show them the Prophesy of His Triumphant return?

Here is what you teach about Jesus.

"There is no more work that Jesus must do on this earth. It is finished!"

But when I listen to what Jesus actually says, "John 14: 28 Ye have heard "how I said unto you", "I go away", and "come again unto you". If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Can you see why I replied to your post?

So any prophecy from the Old Testament that concerned Christ was revealed to them. Apparently, they ALL spoke of His suffering and His being glorifed - that is, His first coming.

But HE told them HE would go away, AND return again, and gather them unto Him. He told them of His Father's House. He told them of the impending Judgment that will not fail to come, and He told them to watch for it, so as not to be caught like those who disregarded HIM in the Flood. The Prophets Prophesied about it. Whose voice taught you that Jesus only spoke to them about His 1st coming? If I were you, I would run, not walk away from this voice.

Again, there's no mention of a seven year tribulation or a millennium.

Again, why do you keep bring this up, when I never said anything about it.

No surprise there because Jesus said that when He returns, it will be "The Last Day." John 6:39, 40, 44, 54 There will be no more days after that on this earth.

YES, that is what I said. This Prophesy has not yet been fulfilled. Therefore, we know the "other voice" in the garden God placed us in, that says "ALL is Fulfilled", that Jesus Work of Earth is finished, is either deceived, or a deceiver. And you and I should not be listening to the Promoters of such a religious philosophy.

That was my only point.

 

[dwight92070]

There are TWO advents of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Zechariah 9:9 prophesied the first coming, and in Matthew 21:5, this prophecy was soon to be fulfilled:

Zechariah 9:9 (NKJV) “Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your King is coming to you; He [is] just and having salvation, Lowly and riding on a donkey, A colt, the foal of a donkey.
Matthew 21:4-5 (NKJV) 4 All this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying: 5 “Tell the daughter of Zion, ‘Behold, your King is coming to you, Lowly, and sitting on a donkey, A colt, the foal of a donkey.’ ”

In Christ's first coming, Jesus did not come as King of Kings and Lord of lords. He came as a baby and He was born in a manger in Bethlehem. He came as Savior of the world.

Notice now what follows immediately after verse 9:9 of Zechariah. Read carefully.
Zechariah 9:10 (NKJV) I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim And the horse from Jerusalem; The battle bow shall be cut off. He shall speak peace to the nations; His dominion [shall be] ‘from sea to sea, And from the River to the ends of the earth.’
This verse is prophesying the second advent of Jesus Christ. This time, our Lord will not be crucified; He will come with a rod of iron.

—selah

You can't remove verse 10 of Zechariah 9 from the context of verse 9, which is as you said, the first coming of Christ.

Verse 10 is speaking of the benefits that all the nations have, if and when they hear and receive the gospel that He proclaimed at His first coming:

"We have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 5:1

"All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples OF ALL THE NATIONS, ..." Matthew 28:18-19

That's even higher than King of Kings and Lord of Lords, which implies earthly kings and earthly lords. But His kingdom "is not of this world." His kingdom is "not of this realm" John 18:36

And there's no indication that His kingdom WILL EVER be "of this world" and "of this realm" - which it would be if there was a literal Millennium.

In fact, Jesus called His 2nd Coming "the Last Day" at least 4 times in John 6 - for a reason. Because there are no more days on this earth after that Day. In fact, Peter says that the heavens and the earth will be burned with fire ON the Day of the Lord, which is His 2nd Coming. 2 Peter 3:10-12

So much for a 7 year tribulation and a 1000 reign of Christ - the earth won't be around for that.

Notice too that people from all nations, when they hear and receive the gospel, have access to peace with God.

He was King even at His birth. "Where is He who has been born King of the Jews?" Matthew 2:2 He acknowledged that He was King of the Jews but He was much more than that:

John the Baptist put it this way: "He who comes for above is above all, ... He who comes from heaven is above all." John 3:31

The very place that calls Jesus "King of Kings and Lord of Lords" also calls Him "The Word of God". And we know that in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God.

Jesus has ALWAYS been the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords because the Word is eternal - He is God.

 

[dwight92070]

Studyman said - "The Christ "of the bible" has not yet returned as HE and the Prophets Promised. If HE doesn't return, then my Faith and the Faith of Abraham will be in vain. The "Change in the Priesthood" was finished on the Cross, but clearly, one of the most important Prophesies concerning the Lord's Christ concerning this Earth has Yet to be fulfilled."


Then you are the one who is confused. You say that both Jesus and the prophets spoke of His 2nd coming. My point is NOT that Jesus never promised that He would return. Of course He did and He will. My point and my belief is that the prophets never spoke of His return - i.e. His 2nd Coming.
They only spoke of His first coming.

 

[DavidTree]

There is much hostility over the centuries of faith surrounding the "thousand year reign" mentioned only in the book of Revelation.

In review. Peter made it clear that he agreed with what Paul taught in the letter to believers at Thessaloniki.

2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Peter referenced what Paul taught.

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Peter references what Paul taught as one of the "days of the Lord". (Zec 14:1)

However, in the book of Revelation there appears to be an "extend" revelation of this event.

Lets discuss this if you will.

I'll start with Rev 7....

Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them

With the "view" depicted above in mind, notice how many peoples are with the Lamb and what they're doing.

In the context of this discussion, this must be accounted for relative to what some believe about end time events. This most certainly happens after what most anyone accepts as the "tribulation". Regardless of when you place the "tribulation"... (which I place before destruction of the temple in 70AD). This is the view of post tribulation peoples and events.

Now lets reconcile this "thousand years/day" of the Lord.

I would make the argument that the amount of people depicted in this view would prevent accepting a physical reign of Christ on this earth. If you believe it doesn't, then please explain what timing is involved? If you say after the physical 1000 year reign. Then you have an event where Christ abandons these peoples that already exist and are with Him....... to only attend/worship Christ from time to time during that physical reign....

Please remember that Peter/Paul said clearly that "all the works therein will pass away". Complete and total destruction takes please on the earth when Jesus destroys the enemies of God when returning with all the saints. (First Resurrection). I know some believe in the Rapture (which contradicts the "first resurrection" language of Revelation.

Please share your thoughts/concerns.

Give God, the Brethren and your mind a K.I.S.S.

Keep
It
Simple
Saints

A.) Adam lived 930 literal years = Genesis 5:5
B.) Bad Adam fell short by 70 years = Genesis 5:5
Christ fulfilled the 70 years which Adam, and all of us, failed to make because of sin = Daniel ch9
D.) Deliverance from wrath at the 2nd Coming = 1 Thess 1:10
E.) Expect a literal 1,000 years for us who are part of the First Resurrection = Revelation ch20
F.) Final Destruction of Satan and this Earth AFTER the 1,000 literal Rule & Reign of Christ and the Saints = Revelation
G.) God Promised a LITERAL 1,000 Years with the KING of kings and HE always keeps His Word = Genesis, Daniel, Rev ch19 & ch20

Shalom in the Name Above all names YHWH YAHshua HaMashiach

 

[DavidTree]

Studyman said - "The Christ "of the bible" has not yet returned as HE and the Prophets Promised. If HE doesn't return, then my Faith and the Faith of Abraham will be in vain. The "Change in the Priesthood" was finished on the Cross, but clearly, one of the most important Prophesies concerning the Lord's Christ concerning this Earth has Yet to be fulfilled."


Then you are the one who is confused. You say that both Jesus and the prophets spoke of His 2nd coming. My point is NOT that Jesus never promised that He would return. Of course He did and He will. My point and my belief is that the prophets never spoke of His return - i.e. His 2nd Coming.
They only spoke of His first coming.

OT Prophets ABSOLUTELY spoke of His 2nd Coming = IRREFUTABLE Prophetic Truth

 

[DavidTree]

There are TWO advents of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Zechariah 9:9 prophesied the first coming, and in Matthew 21:5, this prophecy was soon to be fulfilled:

Zechariah 9:9 (NKJV) “Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem! Behold, your King is coming to you; He [is] just and having salvation, Lowly and riding on a donkey, A colt, the foal of a donkey.
Matthew 21:4-5 (NKJV) 4 All this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying: 5 “Tell the daughter of Zion, ‘Behold, your King is coming to you, Lowly, and sitting on a donkey, A colt, the foal of a donkey.’ ”

In Christ's first coming, Jesus did not come as King of Kings and Lord of lords. He came as a baby and He was born in a manger in Bethlehem. He came as Savior of the world.

Notice now what follows immediately after verse 9:9 of Zechariah. Read carefully.
Zechariah 9:10 (NKJV) I will cut off the chariot from Ephraim And the horse from Jerusalem; The battle bow shall be cut off. He shall speak peace to the nations; His dominion [shall be] ‘from sea to sea, And from the River to the ends of the earth.’
This verse is prophesying the second advent of Jesus Christ. This time, our Lord will not be crucified; He will come with a rod of iron.

Revelation 2:25-29 (NKJV) 25 “But hold fast what you have till I come. 26 “And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations-- 27 ‘He shall rule them with a rod of iron; They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter’s vessels’-- as I also have received from My Father; 28 “and I will give him the morning star. 29 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” ’

—selah

AGREE with all with some added insight from the Word = HE did come as KING the 1st Time

“Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion! Shout, O daughter of Jerusalem!
Behold, your King is coming to you; He is just and having salvation,
Lowly and riding on a donkey, A colt, the foal of a donkey. - Zechariah 9:9

 

[Keiw1]

I have no idea what you are saying about people having died and been resurrected as being rejudged. So far you just seem to add confusion to more confusion. I'm not much interested in the JW view though.

teachers who have no understanding believe the resurrected will be rejudged on past sins committed prior to their death.

 

[Keiw1]

@Keiw1

Your "New" (1950) World translation of the scriptures is not the word of God, period. Your source is corrupted, which will make your doctrine not of God.

But, you and your religion are the blind leading the blind, and we all know the end of that sad ending! Both will fall into the ditch.
God is perfect in every sense of the word, and in every acts of His holy will. You think that only the false cult of the JW's will be raised.

The truth is this: God judged sin in his Son acting on the behalf of God's elect, and they, and they alone can never be judged since Christ paid for their sins by HIS DEATH, and he was resurrected since death had no rights to him because he lived in perfect obedience to God's law and all of his elect that was part of his chosen body did so IN CHRIST; thereby, they and they alone can never be judged by God law, as matter of fact, they have eternal life NOW and shall never truly die, no never!

John 11:25,26​

“Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?”

Yes, Lord I do believe this is so! But, there's a group of blinded men that denies this is so.

Again, you do not have God's word, you are trusting in a false copy of the scriptures, that denies a great biblical truth: God was manifest in human flesh, in the person of His Son, Jesus Christ, when the Word which was form the beginning which WAS GOD, joined Himself to the tabernacle of Jesus of Narareth and lived in this world for about 33 plus years.

Jesus Christ was a complex person, fully man and fully God, and we MUST separate these two natures when teaching on the Sonship of Jesus Christ, who is the TRUE GOD and eternal life;, and to reject his Godhead, is to reject him and leaves one without eternal life.

1st John 5:20​

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”

The ONLY God man or angels will ever see, and truly the angels saw God for the first time when they saw JESUS.

1st Timothy 3:16​

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”

For the first time, since God is a invisible Spirit, no angels ever saw Him until Jesus came into the world! Your false cult rejects these great biblical truths, and that is a mark of an antichrist.

I just did, and will always do so, because I'm using the right source...God's word, not a false translation of it. Yes, I agree easy to see who is using GOD'S word.

Jesus was indeed sent from God, as far as his humanity goes. The Word which was God, period, without any qualifications, joined Himself to the tabernacle of Jesus and did indeed live in this world, and without controversary, it is a great mystery, but a mystery hidden from your eyes totally! Jesus was much more than just a man, he had Godhead attributes that no mortal could ever possess.

John 1:48,49​

“Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee. Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.”

He alone could make this statement:

John 3:13​

“And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”

Jesus was on earth when he made this statement proving that in his divine nature he was God, even though on earth in a human body of flesh and blood, Indeed a complex person, fully man, fully God. With which blood he redeemed the church!

Acts 20:28​

“Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.”

These blessed truths are hidden from false cults like the JW's and others like them.

Briefly, and then I'm finished ever talking to you again, I have said enough to you.

God is a Spirit, and that can never changed, no not ever. Jesus in his humanity will submit himself to God only as far as his humanity goes, yet Jesus will be the ONLY God we shall ever see, for the Holy Spirit dwells in a light that it is impossible for any one to approach and see, not even angels, much less humanity.

1st Timothy 6:16​

“Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.”

You need to heed this one scripture:

Psalms 2:12​

“Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”

You must be kidding? Its proven fact Catholicism translating altered Gods word in the 4th century and added errors to fit false council teachings-all by satans will. When the protestants translated only Catholicism translating remained of the NT plus very few fragments of older translating. God fixed his translation here in the last days. The New world translation. It is 100% fact. The world will find out the hard way. No wonder Jesus compares these last days to Noahs day( Luke 17:26)

 

[mikesw]

teachers who have no understanding believe the resurrected will be rejudged on past sins committed prior to their death.

I do not think I have any reason to try to figure out what you said here.

 

[Red Baker]

Continue from post #51​

Revelation 20:5​

“But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.”

Some Premillennial Theologians use this verse as support for the idea that there are at least two physical resurrections with a literal earthly millennial reign in between. However, scripture clearly teaches "one" future resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

John 5:28-29~"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

This is the second Resurrection (not the first in Christ) and this is what is described in Revelation 20:12. The First resurrection is in Christ, and it is spiritual in nature. This verse of Revelation is conclusive proof that this is speaking about the souls of those martyred who were saved, and who died physically as it's contrasted against the souls of "the rest of the dead" (the unsaved, who died physically). As believers in Christ those martyred, in their souls go immediately to live and reign with Christ after they die. They are living and reigning with Christ every since He went to the cross to make that possible. We live and reign with Christ in heaven in our souls, even though our bodies decayed, yet we live. That's exactly what the verse is talking about. Believers who die, yet their souls living and reigning with Christ, while unbelievers (the rest of the dead) who die, don't live again until the second resurrection.
Ecclesiastes 12:7

• "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it".

2nd Corinthians 5:8

• "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord".

When believers leave this body to dust, our spirits go to be with the Lord. But the rest of the dead, they lived not until after this present millennial reign. These unsaved weren't raised up from death to new life in the first Resurrection in Christ, therefore they cannot go to live and reign with Christ after death. That is the contrast here. In other words, they had no part in the First Resurrection with Christ! And so when they died, they don't live until raised at "The last day" to stand for judgment. That will be the Second Resurrection. Again, spoken of as, "after the thousand years" (indicating once again that it is not to be taken as literally a thousand, because the rest of the dead die at all different times). Lets take a look at what it says here, and what is meant by it.

1st Resurrection:

Every single believer who has been raised up in Christ to new life, hath part in this 1st resurrection. Remember the scriptures talk of Christ as the "FIRST BORN FROM THE DEAD." If that's not the 1st Resurrection from the dead, the new birth in Christ, then nothing is. He is the Resurrection as He told Martha, and all those raised WITH HIM hath part in that first Resurrection ~ and WILL at some time during their life, will be quicken to life by the Spirit of God. They are the Church of the firstborn. On these, the second death hath no power. Of course not, for they never die again! ..He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

2nd Resurrection:

The second coming, at the last trumpet, at the last day, when we that are alive will be raised up to meet Jesus in the air, and Judgment day when the rest of the dead (unsaved who have died) are all are raised up to stand for Judgment.

1st Death:

The death in Adam which all of mankind has suffered and which if they are not resurrected in Christ from that death, they shall suffer the judgement in the second resurrection.

2nd Death:

The Judgment that is meted out By GOD upon the unrighteous. The Lake of fire! There shall be weeping and grinding of teeth! This is the death that the wages of sin brings forth. It's punishment. The 1st Resurrection (Those raised in Christ) have no need to worry about this, as the power of the Cross of Christ (1st Resurrection) has taken away the sting of death.

We see these thousand years are different for each group, and cannot logically or rationally be the same thousand years if that means literally a thousand. Simply put, verse five tells us that the rest of the dead, those who weren't saved by having part in Christ's Resurrection (The First) remained dead, and they didn't live again until after the thousand years. That's not speculation, that's what the scriptures clearly say. And after the fullness of God's purpose, which is a different length of time for each of the dead, then they will be raised to stand for Judgment. Those who make the claim that the first Resurrection is not in Christ are contradicting God's Word. God tells us point blank that Christ is the First Resurrection. And he who hath an ear, let him hear and receive it.

Acts 26:23~"That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles."

Legally we were part of that FIRST resurrection in Christ.

So then, who are we going to believe, God or man? His interpretation, or our own? So there should be no debate but that Christ's raising from the dead is the "First Resurrection," which guarantee our spiritual resurrection by the Spirit of God in time according to God's Word. This is not an interpretation, or my spin on it, it's a direct unadulterated teaching from God's word.

Colossians 1:18~"And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence".

Hebrews 12:23~"To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect"

These are the souls of believers, the First Resurrection, upon which the second death has no power, they live, while the unsaved dead do not. It all fits when the thousand years is not forced to mean something God never intended it to mean. It will never fit when it's forced to mean literally a thousand years. The ones raised up in Christ lived and reigned with him through the thousand years as the Church is being built, but the "rest" of the dead (Unsaved dead) didn't live Again until after the thousand years, when Christ returns to rapture his Church and raise these dead to stand for Judgment.

Remember what the "souls" of those under the altar cried in Revelation 6:10, and Remember God's reply to them? His reply was that they should rest for a season, for there were more people to be martyred. You see, these are the "souls" reigning a thousand years in heaven, not "men" reigning on earth with Christ in a earthly city jerusalem as some Theologians surmise. Christians who have died (physically) and gone to heaven, yet living and Reigning with Christ in their souls existence! God will not Judge till the fullness of His martyrs have come in. He will not loose the judgment of Satan till His set time. Not until His Church is come to the full. This is the marvelous truth of God's Word. And the sad contradiction to those who try and make these souls of 1000 years speak of a literal 1000 year reign of Christ on this sin cursed earth with men.

The First Death ~The first death in Adam, culminating in the putting off of the tabernacle of the flesh when the body dies.

2st Corinthians 15:21
"For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead."

The First: Resurrection~
The First Resurrection in Christ, wherein those who have part in it shall never die. And in time, during their life on earth are spiritually resurrected to eternal life.

Acts 26:23
"That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the First Resurrection from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles".

Ephesians 2:1​

“And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;”

The Second Resurrection~ The General Resurrection at the end of the world.

John 5:28
"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

The second Death, the judgment for the wicked.

Revelation 20:13-14
"And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."

 

[Keiw1]

I do not think I have any reason to try to figure out what you said here.

The bible teaches there will be a resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous and mentions a judgement. Ones in darkness teach and believe the ones who were unrighteous get judged adversely on past sins right away.

 

[e v e]

ll

@e v e

Good, thanks for sharing.

Since you asked : )

 

[Red Baker]

Revelation 20:6​

“Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

Proof once again that this first resurrection refers to Christ's, (See Ephesians 4:5,6) because it is Only those who are raised in Christ's Resurrection, on whom the second death has no Power. That was the whole purpose of the death and resurrection of Christ. No other Resurrection Qualifies! Let it be noted here, that all who were IN CHRIST when he arose, also secures our spiritual birth in time which also is included in the doctrine of the FIRST RESURRECTION, per John 5:25; Ephesians 2:1; Colossians 2: 13; etc.

Romans 8:2~"For the law of the Spirit of Life in Jesus Christ hath made me free from the law of sin and death"

We are free from the law of death that hangs over man because of being raised up in life "with Christ." No other Resurrection qualifies. Revelation chapter twenty, verse six tells us that these that hath part in the 1st Resurrection are Blessed (true Believers) Holy (true Believers), and on such the second death hath no power (true Believers). It can only be this way because they have part in the First Resurrection with Christ. They've already been raised up so that if they live and believe they shall never die, and if they die, yet shall they live. They are Priests of God (true Believers - Revelation 1:6) and Live and reign with Him for the fullness of time, symbolized by 1000 years. All pointing to our resurrection in Christ, not a future event.

Another clear indication that this thousand years cannot be understood literally is that it says these live and reign with Christ 1000 years. The fact is, these Martyrs, whoever people may claim they are, are true believers, and as Such will live and reign with Christ Forever not literally only 1000 years! And so again it doesn't make any sense in a literal 1000 years. Are these souls living and reigning with Christ 1000 years, and then Christ declares, time to loose Satan, and they can't live and reign with Him anymore because your "literal" 1000 years to reign is now up? The answer of course is, "that's silly!" But if This 1000 years is literal, that is exactly how you would have to understand it. These souls literally lived and reigned with Christ 1000 years. Not 2000, not 5000, not forever, but 1000 years. Literal just does not add up. It won't stand the test of accuracy, it won't stand the test of context, it won't stand the test of content, it won't stand the test of faithfulness, and most important, it won't stand the test of Biblical consistency. It is blatantly contradictory with other scripture if we understand it as literal. It is no more a literal number than when God says He owns the sheep on 1000 hills means they are the only ones who are His. He owns them all. And this 1000 years is symbolic of that fulness. It's the time of the fulfilling of God's purpose for the Church.

It says they are Priests of God. Again, it's us. Having been raised up in Christ, we are all now Priests of God, through Christ.

Revelation 1:5-6~"And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen".

He has given us rule as Kings and made us Priests unto God. Not will in the future, but has done this by shedding His blood, and that is what this verse is saying. We are those this calls Blessed, we are those made Holy by being washed from our sins in His blood. Born again by the Spirit of the Living God....... raised up from death unto life in His First Resurrection. legally speaking, and actually in time by the Spirit of God...all of which has secured the resurrection unto eternal life in the world to come.

 

[Jim]

Revelation 20:6​

“Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”

Proof once again that this first resurrection refers to Christ's, (See Ephesians 4:5,6) because it is Only those who are raised in Christ's Resurrection, on whom the second death has no Power. That was the whole purpose of the death and resurrection of Christ. No other Resurrection Qualifies! Let it be noted here, that all who were IN CHRIST when he arose, also secures our spiritual birth in time which also is included in the doctrine of the FIRST RESURRECTION, per John 5:25; Ephesians 2:1; Colossians 2: 13; etc.

Romans 8:2~"For the law of the Spirit of Life in Jesus Christ hath made me free from the law of sin and death"

We are free from the law of death that hangs over man because of being raised up in life "with Christ." No other Resurrection qualifies. Revelation chapter twenty, verse six tells us that these that hath part in the 1st Resurrection are Blessed (true Believers) Holy (true Believers), and on such the second death hath no power (true Believers). It can only be this way because they have part in the First Resurrection with Christ. They've already been raised up so that if they live and believe they shall never die, and if they die, yet shall they live. They are Priests of God (true Believers - Revelation 1:6) and Live and reign with Him for the fullness of time, symbolized by 1000 years. All pointing to our resurrection in Christ, not a future event.

Another clear indication that this thousand years cannot be understood literally is that it says these live and reign with Christ 1000 years. The fact is, these Martyrs, whoever people may claim they are, are true believers, and as Such will live and reign with Christ Forever not literally only 1000 years! And so again it doesn't make any sense in a literal 1000 years. Are these souls living and reigning with Christ 1000 years, and then Christ declares, time to loose Satan, and they can't live and reign with Him anymore because your "literal" 1000 years to reign is now up? The answer of course is, "that's silly!" But if This 1000 years is literal, that is exactly how you would have to understand it. These souls literally lived and reigned with Christ 1000 years. Not 2000, not 5000, not forever, but 1000 years. Literal just does not add up. It won't stand the test of accuracy, it won't stand the test of context, it won't stand the test of content, it won't stand the test of faithfulness, and most important, it won't stand the test of Biblical consistency. It is blatantly contradictory with other scripture if we understand it as literal. It is no more a literal number than when God says He owns the sheep on 1000 hills means they are the only ones who are His. He owns them all. And this 1000 years is symbolic of that fulness. It's the time of the fulfilling of God's purpose for the Church.

It says they are Priests of God. Again, it's us. Having been raised up in Christ, we are all now Priests of God, through Christ.

Revelation 1:5-6~"And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen".

He has given us rule as Kings and made us Priests unto God. Not will in the future, but has done this by shedding His blood, and that is what this verse is saying. We are those this calls Blessed, we are those made Holy by being washed from our sins in His blood. Born again by the Spirit of the Living God....... raised up from death unto life in His First Resurrection. legally speaking, and actually in time by the Spirit of God...all of which has secured the resurrection unto eternal life in the world to come.

I agree that the first resurrection of Revelation 20:5 is the resurrection spoken of in John 5:24-25. I am not sure what you intend with the phrase, "Christ's resurrection". The first resurrection and that of John 24-25 is regeneration, i.e., being born again. If that is what you intend, then we agree.

The second resurrection is that of 1 Corinthians 15:22 and also John 5:28-29.

I would add here a common misunderstanding of Revelation 20:4

Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years

A typical interpretation is "I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and (the souls of) those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand....

But that is incorrect. The word "those" in the second part of that sentence who had not worshiped the beast.... is not the object of a prepositional phrase but is the subject of that second sentence. As such it is not restricted to those who had died. It includes both the living and the dead, namely, all those who had not worshiped the beast, etc. Thus the first resurrection cited in verse 5 cannot be the resurrection at the end of the age. The reference is to the resurrection of John 5:24-25, that is, regeneration.

 

[DavidTree]

I was talking about Jesus' Own Words, that confirmed the Prophesies about the great Judgment, and the Holy One of Israel, who would preside over it. A Prophesy that is promised to Come, but has yet to be fulfilled.

John 14: 1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go (Which I believe HE did after HE was murdered and raised from the Dead ) and prepare a place for you, "I will come again", and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Matt. 13: 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

And the Christ Himself, in the very Last Book of the Inspired Word of God confirmed this Prophesy.

Rev. 22: 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give "every man" according as his work shall be.


Only a deceived person believes that these Word's of the Jesus "of the Bible" are talking about the first coming of Christ, a human, born of a woman, and coming as a Lamb to the Slaughter.

When men seem Him face to face the Next Time, it will be for Judgment, just as HE promised. And He prophesied about what Many Christians will say to HIM "in that day", when they are raised from the dead, and see their impending judgment. I'll Paraphrase what they will say, "Wait a minute Jesus, don't you know who we are"? You can read this for yourself in Matt. 7:22,23.




I never mentioned a tribulation or the Millennium. Why do you imply that I did?




Yes, He is the Christ, who came as a Lamb to the slaughter. When HE comes the 2nd Time, it will be in Power and Glory.




Are you preaching then that Jesus didn't also show them the Prophesy of His Triumphant return?

Here is what you teach about Jesus.


But when I listen to what Jesus actually says, "John 14: 28 Ye have heard "how I said unto you", "I go away", and "come again unto you". If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Can you see why I replied to your post?



But HE told them HE would go away, AND return again, and gather them unto Him. He told them of His Father's House. He told them of the impending Judgment that will not fail to come, and He told them to watch for it, so as not to be caught like those who disregarded HIM in the Flood. The Prophets Prophesied about it. Whose voice taught you that Jesus only spoke to them about His 1st coming? If I were you, I would run, not walk away from this voice.



Again, why do you keep bring this up, when I never said anything about it.



YES, that is what I said. This Prophesy has not yet been fulfilled. Therefore, we know the "other voice" in the garden God placed us in, that says "ALL is Fulfilled", that Jesus Work of Earth is finished, is either deceived, or a deceiver. And you and I should not be listening to the Promoters of such a religious philosophy.

That was my only point.

@Studyman

So as not to cause confusion as you factually clarify JESUS Second Coming,
it is essential you quantify/clarify why the LORD said:
"IT is FINISHED" on the Cross.

i am sure that @dwight92070 and others would find beneficial in communicating here.

 

[DavidTree]

Another clear indication that this thousand years cannot be understood literally is that it says these live and reign with Christ 1000 years. The fact is, these Martyrs, whoever people may claim they are, are true believers, and as Such will live and reign with Christ Forever not literally only 1000 years!​

You reject Truth by saying: "there is no literal 1,000 Years"

Now you have to do something with this error because if you leave it 'as is' you are found out to be denying Truth.

In rejecting this Truth you are forced to redefined scripture by condensing it into another Truth in order to justify a error.

Catholics, jw, SDA and most denominations do this all the time.

 

[DavidTree]

I agree that the first resurrection of Revelation 20:5 is the resurrection spoken of in John 5:24-25. I am not sure what you intend with the phrase, "Christ's resurrection". The first resurrection and that of John 24-25 is regeneration, i.e., being born again. If that is what you intend, then we agree.

The second resurrection is that of 1 Corinthians 15:22 and also John 5:28-29.

I would add here a common misunderstanding of Revelation 20:4

Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years

A typical interpretation is "I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and (the souls of) those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand....

But that is incorrect. The word "those" in the second part of that sentence who had not worshiped the beast.... is not the object of a prepositional phrase but is the subject of that second sentence. As such it is not restricted to those who had died. It includes both the living and the dead, namely, all those who had not worshiped the beast, etc. Thus the first resurrection cited in verse 5 cannot be the resurrection at the end of the age. The reference is to the resurrection of John 5:24-25, that is, regeneration.

I agree that the first resurrection of Revelation 20:5 is the resurrection spoken of in John 5:24-25. I am not sure what you intend with the phrase, "Christ's resurrection". The first resurrection and that of John 24-25 is regeneration, i.e., being born again. If that is what you intend, then we agree.

AGREE

The second resurrection is that of 1 Corinthians 15:22 and also John 5:28-29.

The second resurrection is the Second Death/Eternal Death = Revelation 2:11 & Rev 20:11-15

CHRIST is the First Resurrection = 1 Corinthians ch15
When we are Born-Again it is the First Part/Element of the First Resurrection John 3:1-10
The Second Coming of Christ continues to be = the FIRST Resurrection = Gospel, 1 Thess 4:13-18, 1 Cor ch15 & Revelation

 

[Studyman]

@Studyman

So as not to cause confusion as you factually clarify JESUS Second Coming,
it is essential you quantify/clarify why the LORD said:
"IT is FINISHED" on the Cross.

i am sure that @dwight92070 and others would find beneficial in communicating here.

Well according to what is written in Scriptures, we know what "Wasn't Finished". Moses and the Prophets wasn't finished. The examples God had written specifically for our admonition, "upon whom the ends of the world have come" wasn't finished. The least or the greatest Commandments of God wasn't finished. The Laws of God that the Christ had written "For our sakes no doubt" wasn't finished.

But the Temporary Priesthood, "After the Order of Aaron", WAS finished, as prophesied. The Lamb, that God provided for an unblemished, tried and tested (burnt) offering, prophesied by Abraham and the Prophets was finished.

"And Abraham said, My son, "God will provide himself "a lamb for a burnt offering".

The Sacrifice of the Holy One of Israel, to bring Salvation to them, WAS Finished, once and for all.

It was the end of the perfect Mortal HUMAN, who achieved the Prize of the "High Calling" of God directed towards all men. As it is written, "for this Mortal, must put on immortality". This is why Paul and the Faithful Press towards this Prize, even when we have not yet accomplished it.

This sacrifice, AKA "The Passover", is the Beginning of God's Salvation for man, not the end. At least this is what the Bible teaches, shown clearly by the Feasts of the Lord's Christ, which are not only to show the Faithful, but also to prepare the Faithful for those things which are Yet to be fulfilled.

The Same Holy Scriptures that this same Christ had written " for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God "may be perfect", throughly furnished unto all good works", was not Finished.

The Prophesies concerning the very purpose of all His Suffering, His humiliation, His humility is not Yet Finished. If HE doesn't return to gather His Faithful Flock, and bring them to the place HE has prepared for them, then their Faith, and mine, is in Vain.

The entire Bible warns of this world's religious system, and everyone from Abraham to Caleb, to Rehab, to Simeon to Cornelius to Paul etc., are called out of this system, to "Yield ourselves" to God and HIS Righteousness, not our own as defined by this world's religious system.

Rom. 12: 1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, "that ye present" your bodies "a living sacrifice", holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

This is why it's so important, in my understanding, to study the Holy Scriptures, apart from all the other voices which exist in the garden God placed us in, who "come in Christ's Name" or "Profess to know God".

 

[DavidTree]

The Prophesies concerning the very purpose of all His Suffering, His humiliation, His humility is not Yet Finished. If HE doesn't return to gather His Faithful Flock, and bring them to the place HE has prepared for them, then their Faith, and mine, is in Vain.

i would adjust this so that it is accurate according to TRUTH = Hebrews 9:23-28

Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;
a.) not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another—
b.) He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world;
c.) but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin (once) by the sacrifice of Himself.
d.) And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment,
E.) so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many.

To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

 

[Studyman]

AGREE



The second resurrection is the Second Death/Eternal Death = Revelation 2:11 & Rev 20:11-15

CHRIST is the First Resurrection = 1 Corinthians ch15
When we are Born-Again it is the First Part/Element of the First Resurrection John 3:1-10
The Second Coming of Christ continues to be = the FIRST Resurrection = Gospel, 1 Thess 4:13-18, 1 Cor ch15 & Revelation

I would argue with this teaching, although I understand how popular it is, based on what is actually written.

John 3: 5., Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

1 Thess. 4: 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the "dead in Christ" shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Jesus Himself said there will be "MANY", when HE returns, that are convinced they are "born Again", when they are not. We Live by Faith. Being "born again" doesn't mean to join a religious social club, or to go from one religious sect to another.

I think when a man repents, (Passover to them) their journey begins. They are tested, they grown in the knowledge of God, and those who endure being Faithful to God, to the End of their life, "shall be saved". Paul points this out in my understanding.

Eph. 4: 21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24 And that "ye put on" the new man, which after God (Not this world's religious traditions and philosophies) is created "in righteousness and true holiness".

This is why, in my view, Paul teaches to "Press towards" the Perfection that was in Christ Jesus every day.

2 Cor. 5: 9 Wherefore we (The Body of Christ) labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

And Peter, the same Theme.

2 Pet. 3: 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent "that ye may be found of him" in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Paul and Peter rested in Hope that they might see HIM in the First resurrection, not the resurrection those Christians in Matt. 7:22 found themselves in.