The Text refutes what Calvinism teaches

[TomL]

So your saying God chose those who chose Him. NOWHERE on the pages of scripture.

No we're off to God chose because of trust. NOWHERE on the pages of scripture. Add that to the list of presupposions

I am saying In Eph 1 God is choosing those who trust in christ

That is what scripture states

Will you believe the word of God?

Or is your theology more important to you

God chooses in Christ

One gets in Christ when they trust in him

That is scripture

Are you going to believe it

 

[TomL]

So now trust is the basis of election? LOL Your all over the place.

Add that to the list

You are in major denial

God choose us in Christ (Eph 1:4)

Can you deny that is what the text staters?

Are you going to believe the scripture?

 

[Presby02]

You are in major denial

God choose us in Christ (Eph 1:4)

Can you deny that is what the text staters?

Are you going to believe the scripture?

That's what it says, so yup. From the foundation of the world. Before I ever make a choice.

 

[TomL]

That's what it says, so yup. From the foundation of the world. Before I ever make a choice.

Sorry that was not a decree for unconditionally select men to be in Christ or to be holy and blameless but that those in Christ would be holy and blameless before him

Are you seriously trying to say God could not make such a decree before the foundation of the Earth concerning things that happen in time

Men are in Christ in time

Romans 16:7 (KJV 1900) — 7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

 

[Presby02]

Sorry that was not a decree for unconditionally select men to be in Christ or to be holy and blameless but that those in Christ would be holy and blameless before him

Are you seriously trying to say God could not make such a decree before the foundation of the Earth concerning things that happen in time

Men are in Christ in time

Romans 16:7 (KJV 1900) — 7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

You mean foreknowledge? Something Provisionist whine is not determinitive?

 

[TomL]

You mean foreknowledge? Something Provisionist whine is not determinitive?

I did not say foreknowledge

read again

Sorry that was not a decree for unconditionally select men to be in Christ or to be holy and blameless but that those in Christ would be holy and blameless before him

Are you seriously trying to say God could not make such a decree before the foundation of the Earth concerning things that happen in time

Men are in Christ in time

Romans 16:7 (KJV 1900) — 7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

 

[Presby02]

I did not say foreknowledge

read again

Sorry that was not a decree for unconditionally select men to be in Christ or to be holy and blameless but that those in Christ would be holy and blameless before him

Are you seriously trying to say God could not make such a decree before the foundation of the Earth concerning things that happen in time

Men are in Christ in time

Romans 16:7 (KJV 1900) — 7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

Based on your actions? Nope. Foreknowledge is not determinitive remember?

They are also chosen in Him before time or from the foundation of the world. Before you exist to make a choice.

 

[civic]

Just the opposite

Yes your belief is the opposite of scripture.

Do you know what the word WHEN means ?

Paul makes the EMPHASIS 2 times below WHEN they became in Christ

1- when they heard the gospel
2- when they believed

Ephesians 1
11 In him we were also chosen,having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Presby02]

Yes your belief is the opposite of scripture.

Do you know what the word WHEN means ?

Paul makes the EMPHASIS 2 times below WHEN they became in Christ

1- when they heard the gospel
2- when they believed

Ephesians 1
11 In him we were also chosen,having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

hope this helps !!!

Yup, and it's God who does the choosing. 2 Thessalonians 2:13

 

[civic]

Yup, and it's God who does the choosing. 2 Thessalonians 2:13

try sticking to ephesians 1 the topic here- your EVASION is duly noted.

 

[Presby02]

Yes your belief is the opposite of scripture.

Do you know what the word WHEN means ?

Paul makes the EMPHASIS 2 times below WHEN they became in Christ

1- when they heard the gospel
2- when they believed

Ephesians 1
11 In him we were also chosen,having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

hope this helps !!!

Yup, I do. Sorry though, nothing about choosing to be elect of God choosing you because you chose Him.

 

[Presby02]

try sticking to ephesians 1 the topic here- your EVASION is duly noted.

Ahhhhh....remember this rule.

Umm...but it says God chose you for salvation. The exact opposite of what your telling me.

 

[civic]

Ahhhhh....remember this rule.

Umm...but it says God chose you for salvation. The exact opposite of what your telling me.

We are discussing Ephesians 1 if you are incapable of staying on topic then go and start another thread with your cherry picked verses ripped from their context.

 

[Presby02]

We are discussing Ephesians 1 if you are incapable of staying on topic then go and start another thread with your cherry picked verses ripped from their context.

You can throw in 1 Thessalonians 1:4 as well. It is God doing the choosing

 

[civic]

You can throw in 1 Thessalonians 1:4 as well. It is God doing the choosing

go start a thread so I can dismantle it. I'm not discussing it here. we are discussing Ephesian 1. It will be torn down just like Romans 9 was in the other thread.

 

[Presby02]

go start a thread so I can dismantle it. I'm not discussing it here. we are discussing Ephesian 1. It will be torn down just like Romans 9 was in the other thread.

Then dont. Who asked you to?

Want more? Did God choose Irsrael or did Israel choose God?

How about the apostles? Who choose whom?

 

[civic]

Then dont. Who asked you to?

Want more? Did God choose Irsrael or did Israel choose God?

How about the apostles? Who choose whom?

Deut 30:19 - I call heaven and earth to record this day against you that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live,

Joshua 24- And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD

Prov 1:29- For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

 

[civic]

Then dont. Who asked you to?

Want more? Did God choose Irsrael or did Israel choose God?

How about the apostles? Who choose whom?

Yes God chose Israel and most were not saved and were condemned.

Jesus chose judas.

case closed.

 

[Presby02]

Yes God chose Israel and most were not saved and were condemned.

Jesus chose judas.

case closed.

Exactly. God does the choosing.

Good talk

 

[praise_yeshua]

That's what it says, so yup. From the foundation of the world. Before I ever make a choice.

Christ was there. Not you. God chose His Son and you only care about you.