The Prayers of Calvinism
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The Rogue Tomato
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That's pretty stupid.
civic
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John Calvin below:
"From this it is easy to conclude how foolish and frail is the support of divine justice afforded by the suggestion that evils come to be not by [God’s] will, but merely by his permission. Of course, so far as they are evils, which men perpetrate with their evil mind, as I shall show in greater detail shortly, I admit that they are not pleasing to God. But it is a quite frivolous refuge to say that God permits them, when Scripture shows Him not only willing but the author of them.” (John Calvin, The Eternal Predestination of God, 176).
"...how foolish and frail is the support of divine justice afforded by the suggestion that evils come to be, not by His will but by His permission...It is a quite frivolous refuge to say that God otiosely permits them, when Scripture shows Him not only willing, but the author of them...Who does not tremble at these judgments with which God works in the hearts of even the wicked whatever He will, rewarding them nonetheless according to desert? Again it is quite clear from the evidence of Scripture that God works in the hearts of men to incline their wills just as he will, whether to good for His mercy's sake, or to evil according to their merits. " (John Calvin, "The Eternal Predestination of God," 10:11)
"From this it is easy to conclude how foolish and frail is the support of divine justice afforded by the suggestion that evils come to be not by [God’s] will, but merely by his permission. Of course, so far as they are evils, which men perpetrate with their evil mind, as I shall show in greater detail shortly, I admit that they are not pleasing to God. But it is a quite frivolous refuge to say that God permits them, when Scripture shows Him not only willing but the author of them.” (John Calvin, The Eternal Predestination of God, 176).
"...how foolish and frail is the support of divine justice afforded by the suggestion that evils come to be, not by His will but by His permission...It is a quite frivolous refuge to say that God otiosely permits them, when Scripture shows Him not only willing, but the author of them...Who does not tremble at these judgments with which God works in the hearts of even the wicked whatever He will, rewarding them nonetheless according to desert? Again it is quite clear from the evidence of Scripture that God works in the hearts of men to incline their wills just as he will, whether to good for His mercy's sake, or to evil according to their merits. " (John Calvin, "The Eternal Predestination of God," 10:11)
civic
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Piper the Calvinist said :
“it isn’t just that God manages to turn the evil aspects of our world to good for those who love him; it is rather that he himself brings about these evil aspects for his glory. This includes — as incredible and as unacceptable as it may currently seem — God’s having even brought about the Nazis’ brutality at Birkenau and Auschwitz as well as the terrible killings of Dennis Rader and even the sexual abuse of a young child:” (“All the Good That Is Ours in Christ: Seeing God’s Gracious Hand in the Hurts Others Do to Us”)
MacArthur says that “Ultimately, we must concede that sin is something God meant to happen. He planned for it, ordained it – or, in the words of the Westminster Confession, He decreed it.” (The Vanishing Conscience and Hard to Believe
“it isn’t just that God manages to turn the evil aspects of our world to good for those who love him; it is rather that he himself brings about these evil aspects for his glory. This includes — as incredible and as unacceptable as it may currently seem — God’s having even brought about the Nazis’ brutality at Birkenau and Auschwitz as well as the terrible killings of Dennis Rader and even the sexual abuse of a young child:” (“All the Good That Is Ours in Christ: Seeing God’s Gracious Hand in the Hurts Others Do to Us”)
MacArthur says that “Ultimately, we must concede that sin is something God meant to happen. He planned for it, ordained it – or, in the words of the Westminster Confession, He decreed it.” (The Vanishing Conscience and Hard to Believe
civic
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Do you agree with these statements: If not why not ?
(a) God is perfect and everything He does is perfect.
(b) All things in this world happen according to God’s sovereign will and ordination alone.
If so then you believe that:
(a) All things in this world must be perfect, including sin and evil.
(b) Not one imperfect act may exist in a world where God rules.
If you declare sin is evil then you must accept that God is not perfect or that his will is not the only will in the universe. Is God sovereign over every molecule as RC Sproul teaches ?
hope this helps !!!
civic
Well-known member
Augustine the gnostic manichean and his false teaching below on evil is where calvin got his heretical teaching form his mentor augustine.
From this it follows that there is nothing to be called evil if there is nothing good. A good that wholly lacks an evil aspect is entirely good. Where there is some evil in a thing, its good is defective or defectible. Thus there can be no evil where there is no good. This leads us to a surprising conclusion: that, since every being, in so far as it is a being, is good, if we then say that a defective thing is bad, it would seem to mean that we are saying that what is evil is good, that only what is good is ever evil and that there is no evil apart from something good. This is because every actual entity is good [omnis natura bonum est.] Nothing evil exists in itself, but only as an evil aspect of some actual entity. Therefore, there can be nothing evil except something good. Absurd as this sounds, nevertheless the logical connections of the argument compel us to it as inevitable.
From this it follows that there is nothing to be called evil if there is nothing good. A good that wholly lacks an evil aspect is entirely good. Where there is some evil in a thing, its good is defective or defectible. Thus there can be no evil where there is no good. This leads us to a surprising conclusion: that, since every being, in so far as it is a being, is good, if we then say that a defective thing is bad, it would seem to mean that we are saying that what is evil is good, that only what is good is ever evil and that there is no evil apart from something good. This is because every actual entity is good [omnis natura bonum est.] Nothing evil exists in itself, but only as an evil aspect of some actual entity. Therefore, there can be nothing evil except something good. Absurd as this sounds, nevertheless the logical connections of the argument compel us to it as inevitable.
civic
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So this is a simple yes or no question.
Do you agree with these calvinists I have quoted that evil is good and good is evil ?
The Rogue Tomato
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That question is as stupid as the mock prayer, and is not worth answering.
Dizerner
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I'm not making a definitive statement either way.
But I will tell you, from an outsider, this LOOKS like an excuse just not to answer it.
civic
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The actual prayer comes directly from Calvinisms teachings. Its why I cannot pray like that since I don't believe in God determining sin/evil and causes those evil things to happen- then claiming then are actually good.
So a calvinist should pray according tho their beliefs in their God otherwise its hypocrisy.
I'm just pointing out the obvious flaws in that theological system.
hope this helps !!!
The Rogue Tomato
Well-known member
The actual prayer comes directly from Calvinisms teachings. Its why I cannot pray like that since I don't believe in God determining sin/evil and causes those evil things to happen- then claiming then are actually good.
So a calvinist should pray according tho their beliefs in their God otherwise its hypocrisy.
I'm just pointing out the obvious flaws in that theological system.
hope this helps !!!
It's called a straw man argument. Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you yourself will be just like him.
civic
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Calvinist Prayer (and many other things) Explained
Application 2: God ordains means as well as ends. God is the Author. This is his story. We are his characters. Therefore, Be a faithful character in God’s story.* Taken from a sermon by Joe Rigney …
arminianperspectives.wordpress.com
civic
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And Roger Olsen has a good article on prayer below
www.patheos.com
Can a Calvinist Pray for His Child to Be "Elect?"
Recently I heard of a well-known Calvinist pastor, author, speaker, who, on a podcast, testified that he often goes into his little son's bedroom after
www.patheos.com
civic
Well-known member
And non calvinists can sincerely pray for all the lost, every person who is lost.
evangelicalarminians.org
Arminians Can Be Consistent and Pray for God to Save the Lost - Society of Evangelical Arminians
By Brian Abasciano I have seen Calvinists argue that when Arminians pray for God to save lost souls, they are being inconsistent with their theology and are really praying like Calvinists. Even Arminian theologian and SEA member Roger Olson has argued that it is inconsistent for Arminians to ask...
evangelicalarminians.org
civic
Well-known member
It actually does tell believers to pray on behalf of all men everywhere
1 Tim 2
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
Dizerner
Well-known member
It actually does tell believers to pray on behalf of all men everywhere
No, I don't mean that.
I mean thanking God for child abusers, etc.
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