The Pagan, Gnostic Origin of Calvinism

[FreeInChrist]

You will want to read this. It’s a smoking gun.

Where did John Calvin derive his damnable heresies (which he and his followers disingenuously and slanderously label as “doctrines of grace”) of God planning and executing a desire to damn the vast majority of mankind to eternal hell—purposefully—and that this decision was made by him before the foundation of the world because his atonement was limited to a very select few, and that he was somehow glorified in creating men for the single purpose of casting them into eternal hell fire, and that his elect have no choice in the matter either since his grace is allegedly irresistible?

These foundational errors of Calvinism have their origins fully and without question in the faulty and heretical theology of Augustine.

But from whence did Augustine derive these errors, since in Scripture they are not found?

Did you know Augustine was steeped in pagan and gnostic religion?

Calvinism’s very roots, it’s very foundation, is not in Scripture, but in Augustines pagan religion of Manichaean Gnosticism and Stoicism, from whence the TULIP error flows.

To the shock of many Calvinists and Covenant Theologians, the roots of their doctrine have recently been traced and exposed as being of pagan and gnostic origins through the writings of the Surgeon, Dr. Ken Wilson's smoking-gun, The Foundation of Augustinian-Calvinism, which summarizes Dr. Wilson's "ground-breaking" doctoral thesis at the University of Oxford which was published by Mohr Siebeck in 2018, titled “Augustine's Conversion from Traditional Free Choice to 'Non-free Free Will': A Comprehensive Methodology.” It is “ground-breaking” because he is the first to have pioneered Augustines' writings and theology in a finely-tuned chronological order. Wilson explores in his book, which is very technical in terms of its historical trajectory, a curious split between Augustine's early and later writings and shows how the ideas presented in Augustine's later writings became the foundation for modern Calvinist (Reformed) theology, also known as Augustinian-Calvinism, which happen to be the ideas of Manichaeism Gnosticism. He reveals how Augustine went from being a Manichean to a professing “Christian” and then reverting back to Manicheanism.

As sort of a disclaimer, I do not agree with everything that Wilson writes, and in particular I do not endorse or embrace any neo-evangelicalism he may embrace, or “church father” he may promote, but do believe, with strong evidence for my position [such as here, point #4], that many of them were heretics, like Augustine was, only of a different flavour with different errord. But that doesn’t mean they got absolutely everything wrong, just like Augustine didn’t get everything wrong — yes, false teachers get some things right as well.

Though that may come as a shock to Calvinists, it came as no shock to this writer. Why not? Because Calvinism is throughly and pathetically heretical, an ancient heresy that creeps into the collective minds of those looking for some new philosophy, and a latent eisegetical time bomb with massive corruption of God’s doctrine of salvation, and these heresies had to derive from some extraBiblical source. We also know that John Calvin was not original in his heresies — he learned everything he espoused from the horribly heretical Augustine of Hippo (345-430 A.D.), who having reached a place of great influence in the now official state church, almost seems to have behaved like an activated diabolical sleeper suddenly dumping (pun intended) a whole schema of teachings and practices that have done untold damage.

Who Was Augustine?

Augustine was one of Roman Catholicism's original four "Doctors of the Church" (Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, 2nd ed, s.v. "Augustine," p. 414). The Catholic Church during the Medieval period built its system of eschatology on Augustinian amillennialism, where Christ rules the earth spiritually through his triumphant church (Bloomberg 2006, p. 519), rather than the plain and clear scriptural teaching of a literal 1000-year earthly reign of Jesus Christ on earth (e.g. Rev 20:1-7)... article continued here...


By: Reuben
19 Minute Read

Thank you for posting this Victoria.... and if they go to the end of the continued article, that should send chills up everyone's spine.... for this...

 

[TedT]

Ezekiel 18:20, "The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.”

The soul who sins shall die would also prove that the one who dies is a sinner...right?

And not bearing the sins of our father, Adam, proves the sin is our own, not inherited from Adam, right?

 

[TedT]

So out of your own ignorance your religion creates devil babies.

Not devils unless they are reprobate sinners but just sinners if they are elect sinners. This differentiation is found in Jn 3:18 for sinners who are never condemned and devils, sinners who are condemned already, whose judgement was postponed due to the sins of the elect sinful good seed, Matt 13:27-30.

 

[civic]

Thank you for posting this Victoria.... and if they go to the end of the continued article, that should send chills up everyone's spine.... for this...
View attachment 2704

I have his book

 

[civic]

Also PSA was developed to go hand in hand with tulip. And infant baptism came about to save a believers infant from damnation. It’s one big spiders web.

 

[atpollard]

Everyone , absolutely everyone ever created has heard the gospel already ...

The Sentinelese. [look them up]

 

[Victoria]

Thank you for posting this Victoria.... and if they go to the end of the continued article, that should send chills up everyone's spine.... for this...
View attachment 2704

Absolutely. I had no idea just how satanic Calvinism really is...
the rabbit hole goes deep

 

[TedT]

The Sentinelese. [look them up]

The Sentinelese as well as the Pirahã in the Amazon have indeed heard the gospel proclaimed before the foundation of the physical universe as Col 1:23 tells us if we have ears to hear.

The fact that they deny this truth is just a proof they are sinners, maybe reprobate, and love sin more than the truth they know, a common occurrence as Rom 1:18 to the end, tells us rather repeatedly.

Being stuck so you must look for worldly references to prove your point against scripture is a bad sign.

 

[Titus]

Ummm,
IF the elect are foreordained to salvation before their birth into earthly lives and
IF this foreordination was not unconditional but due to some reason found in them to be acceptable to GOD for HIM to treat them in this way,
THEN this acceptability to GOD can easily be called a merit.

What was their merit?
Romans 8:29 - For whom HE did foreknow, HE also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of HIS Son. From this verse we can see that the predestination of the elect is based on the foreknowledge of GOD. Now everyone admits that in this verse, the word fore means before life. Therefore, they think that it also means before creation as if our earthly life was the same as our created spirit life. I wonder if this is a valid and reasonable link to make?

GOD obviously does not before life know everybody since not everyone will become like Jesus, as Rom 8:29 just said predestination means and as per Matthew 7:21, 23 Then I will tell them plainly, I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers! which tells us what knowing means, emphasising the idea that loving is knowing and knowing about has no love. James 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder. Jesus obviously knew about the demons and knew about the miracle workers but this knowing contained no love as it is plain; He never knew them.
Revelation 20:15, And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. This means that foreknow must carry the idea of approval. As one commentator stated it, Whom HE foreknew is virtually equivalent to whom HE foreloved.

Now this question comes to mind: if it is true that no one had been created at the time of this foreknowledge, on what basis does GOD "before life" love some and not the rest?

1. Merit based Election before Creation!

The basis can not be, as some have suggested, some merit in the creatures, first because no one exists yet; second, because the ones HE foreloves will be just as defiled in life as any other; and third, because the Scriptures say election is not on the basis of the creature's works or choices in life, but rather on HIS unmerited favour:
Romans 9:11 For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of GOD according to election might stand, not of works, but of HIM that calleth... Romans 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of GOD that sheweth mercy.

Therefore, we can surmise that GOD does not "before life" love some because HE has divined that they will have some merit in their life.

2. Election to Damnation before Creation Serves HIS Purpose?
Others have suggested that GOD "before life" loved only some because this is more beneficial for HIS purposes than if HE before life loved everyone. The explanation goes something like this: The loved ones' eternal joy is directly proportional to their knowledge - appreciation of GOD and the wonderfulness of their salvation. Therefore an increase of good comes forth from the eternal damnation of some persons for by their damnation, that is, the outcome of Adam's decision to sin, and HIS "before life" decision not to love these persons, two types of eternal blessings supposedly occur for the rest.

First, a fuller appreciation of several of God's attributes is made possible, which opportunity wouldn't be possible if all lived forever, that is, if HE "before life" loved them all. These attributes are usually said to be HIS justness (retribution - wrath) holiness and omnipotence.

Secondly, the truth regarding the elect's end apart from Christ's salvation is made fully known, which full knowledge makes possible the fuller appreciation of HIS salvation, for this salvation (hence, HIS mercy too) would not be so fully appreciated without the graphic depiction of both ends.

Third, Others even go so far as to say that their damnation is absolutely necessary in order that the purpose of GOD be able to be fulfilled by HIS elect, and they offer this explanation: In order to live in eternity with GOD, we must live fully in the truth, which necessity necessitates having a perfect appreciation of GOD's attributes and HIS salvation, and that this perfect appreciation by HIS elect creatures is made possible first, only through witnessing HIS triumph over and judgement upon HIS enemies, and second, only when HIS perfection and our life in Christ are contrasted with the complete imperfections of the damned and the end we would have had, had HE not saved us.

Now, these are very hard positions to hold, for they fail on many accounts.

First, they both fail to answer or give a reasonable basis for why HE chose the particular ones HE did and why HE did not choose the rest. In other words, they both deny the faithful and unselfish character of GOD's love, in that they limit it without just cause and look on it as somewhat capricious.

Secondly, they both necessitate the unproven presupposition that it is impossible for GOD to perfect HIS creatures HIMSELF, that HE needs the presence of evil in order to bring HIS creation to its highest potential. In other words we must accept, for example, that in GODS world one has to first be sick in order to be healthy, or sinful in order to be faultless [and the more sinful (or sick) the better].

Third, they both fail to satisfactorily answer the question of how the damnation of millions makes us more appreciative / perfect than would be the damnation of but one, since it is the moral depravity of those in hell that is supposed to make for the increased appreciation / perfection and not the quantity of persons therein.

Fourthly, they both put a very small value on the worth of the individual creature in the eyes of GOD.

Well, since the reason for GOD's foreknowledge / forelove does not include everyone can not be found in HIS divination of merit in some creatures and since a reasonable answer has not been put forward for why GOD does it particularly, we are left with but two conclusions: We must either look for the answer elsewhere, in some area we have not looked before, or we must put the basis of HIS foreknowledge down to unreasonable chance.

This would mean that there is no reason for HIS particular "before life" love. [Aside: as I understand it, this is Calvin's failure to understand this doctrine correctly.] GOD's election / foreknowing is thus based on eenie, meenie, minie, mo, but how can you put your faith in a GOD like that? How much better to admit that we should start looking in some area we have not looked yet, and since we cannot find any of those, why not finally admit that we need a revelation from GOD to give us an infinitely loving answer to this problem?

Now, according to pre-conception theology, the "before life" love (foreknowledge) of GOD, that is, HIS pre-life approval of some and rejection of the rest is based on the prior uncoerced choice of the creature (in Sheol, before physical creation) and on HIS infinite love, which means that HE will never stop loving anyone who can possibly ever come to glorify HIM. Therein is the reason why HE loved some "before this life" and why HE did not love the rest.

Some had chosen to eternally defile themselves and some had not. Some had decided to never ever fulfil HIS purpose and some were still able to fulfil HIS purpose, some willingly, (angels) and others only if HE was infallibly gracious (election) to them (His fallen church, the sinful good seed). Yes, and He predestined these to be conformed to the image of HIS Son, and HE predestined the other evil ones for the Day of Judgement and established them for the correction of the fallen elect, as is fulfilled in Jn 3:18 Whoever (sinner) believes in Him (elect) is not condemned, but whoever (sinner) does not believe (the self chosen reprobate) has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. Berean Standard Bible

Now, I ask you, which doctrine is the more scriptural and reasonable and compatible with the attributes of GOD?

2 Timothy 1:9 - Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to HIS own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began. This Scripture does not prove that we existed before our conception. The reason I am including it is that I believe that it does not invalidate pre-conception existence theology, and I am sure a lot of people will think that it and others like it do. May I submit that when the Scriptures speak of works in relation to our election, they are referring to only our works after we're born, ie, no one was elected on account of any works they would do as sinners in this life.

Now, if there is anyone who would like to disagree with me on this and would like to debate whether Paul intended that our pre-life works were also to be included in the works that were excluded as part of the basis of GOD's election, I would be very interested in seeing your argument. I suppose this isn't necessary, but I would like to (first) point out that any such argument must admit to our pre-earthly existence.

The second thing I would like to point out is that we were called according to HIS purpose. This must mean so that we could fulfil HIS purpose for us. But if this is so, then there must be an uncoerced choice on our part if we are ever to have the possibility of glorifying GOD. His purpose for us necessitates a free will choice to join that purpose or it is a tape recorder type of agreement and meaningless. Therefore I say that being called according to HIS purpose and grace is almost exactly the same as saying, being called in accord with our uncoerced choice and HIS covenant, and if making that choice is a work, since earthly works are out, then it is the same as saying, Being called in accord with a pre-conception work and HIS gracious covenant to those who performed that work.

The third thing I would like to point out is that the angels are elected too. 1 Timothy 5:21 I charge thee before GOD and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels... Angels are a lot different than men (at least, that is what many believe), ie, they do not have what is usually called racial solidarity. This means that they have to make all their own choices. No one else can make them for them and they can not be held accountable for someone else's evil choices. In other words, Adam's choices do not affect them at all (supposedly). Perhaps you would like to tell me on what basis GOD elected only some of them?

If HIS choice was not on the basis of their individual choices, then they had to be elected before the satanic rebellion, at least. But if GOD's election of some took place before the satanic rebellion, would this not lead us into the pretty incredulous situation of some unblemished creatures being unjustly un-predestined to remain in heaven, (which in fact implies the are predestined for Hell)? And what reasonable basis can we put forward for this situation other than HE simply did not want them to be with HIM forever? This situation does not look too good, does it?

Well then, what if no one was elected before the rebellion, that is, what if GOD's election took place after the rebellion? Then GOD's election took place after they all had made an eternal choice, and presumably that choice would be taken into account when GOD was doing HIS electing. It would have to be if HE was holy and just. Now, the main thing I am trying to bring out with all of this is that when we just begin to consider the election of angels, we run into some pretty unreasonable implications if we leave out their choice as being a part of the basis of their election, and the only other real alternative necessitates that we accept that their eternal choice was at least a part of the basis of their election.

Well, if you are willing to accept the possibility of their choice, works, being a part of the basis of their election, why can that not be a part of the basis of ours too?

I'll address Gods foreknowledge and Biblical predestination.

Calvinism teaches God predestined certain INDIVIDUALS to be saved/elected.
God did not choose certain individuals. He chose Christ. And God predestined the place where the saved are. Predestination defines the destiny of a group not the selection of persons.
Example:
God predestined the ark(location) to save.
God predestined destruction outside it.
Noah preached and people chose whether to enter.
The location of salvation was predestined but those individuals who entered was not.
Even Noah chose to obey God. He was not forced.

Today the location is IN Christ.God predestined the saved would be IN Christ.
Ephesians 1:4,
- just as He chose us(the group, number) IN Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love

Acts 2:23,
- Him being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God

God did not chose individuals but Christ. Those who choose to be saved IN Christ, God predestined IN Him, whoever comes to Him receive salvation.

Ephesians 1:4-11,
- IN Christ we were chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of His will

Paul makes it possible to understand that God does not directly choose individuals then put them in Christ with no will of the individual to make his own decisions based upon hearing the word of truth, the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Galatians 3:26-27,
- So IN Christ Jesus you are all sons of God through faith(the gospel)
- for as many of you who were baptized INTO CHRIST have put on Christ

The only way one gets in Christ is to hear then believe and obey the gospel.
No one in Calvinism is saved by first believing and obeying the gospel.
In Calvinism one is first chosen by God directly. Baptized miraculously with the Holy Spirit.
This miraculous baptism is when regeneration takes place and God gives the elected a new heart.
This must take place first before believing the gospel because in Calvinist doctrine the unregenerate is totally depraved, totally unable to even desire to follow Jesus even if the gospel is taught to him.

So no one gets in Christ that has not believed and obeyed the gospel but in calvinism one is regenerated aka born again in order to believe. Therefore regeneration, justification, salvation occurs before one is put IN Christ in reformed theologies doctrine of salvation.

Romans 10:17,
- so then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God

The Bible does not teach a miraculous regeneration must take place for someone to develop faith.
The Bible teaches one already has the ability to believe by the power of the gospel.
Once one hears the gospel one has the ability to believe the gospel.
This is the true Biblical way of how the Holy Spirit works on the heart of the unbeliever.
He works through the word!!!

1Peter 1:22-23,
- you have purified your souls in obeying the truth(gospel) through the Spirit having been born again through the word of God which liveth and abideth forever

conclusion: God predestined all the saved would be in Christ.
All the saved get in Christ by first hearing then believing the gospel.
God predestined the message and location of where the saved would be not individuals being saved directly without the gospel and outside of Christ.

2Timothy 2:10,
- therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is IN Christ Jesus with eternal glory

 

[FreeInChrist]

Absolutely. I had no idea just how satanic Calvinism really is...
the rabbit hole goes deep

They used to have a nice article on the web about John Calvin and Predestination that I would often use to quote from that laid
out his simple comment about " and the reprobate would be damned " or something like that.

That reference is gone.

Funny though... From Martin Luter and others and also Calvin we all have learned about predestination....

Isn't it amazing those now who are proponents will say... they are not Calvinists.... they are predestined believers... some at the same time citing TULIP.

Yours is a great find... it caused me to alter muy signature in the hopes of making people at least curious.

 

[atpollard]

The Sentinelese as well as the Pirahã in the Amazon have indeed heard the gospel proclaimed before the foundation of the physical universe

… … … … …

 

[Titus]

The Sentinelese. [look them up]

calvinism downplays the gospel.
Unfortunately for you atpollard, you are fighting against Gods chosen means by which He saves.

calvinism asserts:
God desires to save only the elect.
God withholds the gospel from many e.g. sentinelese.
God regenerates apart from the word.

Compare to Scripture
God desires all to be saved, 1Timothy 2:4.
Christ died for all, 1John 2:2.
Faith only comes by hearing the gospel, Romans 10:17.

The calvinist argument is an attempt to protect a system not follow Scripture.

The Bible never uses "those who never heard" to redefine Gods chosen means to save.

If ignorance was an alternative means by which one could be saved then the worst thing one could do is share the gospel with peoples who never heard it.

The gospel is the power of God unto salvation,
Romans 1:16. Calvinist's don't believe this.
- for I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation...
Acts 4:12,
- neither is there salvation in any other for there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved

The apostles spread the gospel everywhere as Jesus commanded.
Christians are to do the same. If peoples have not heard it. Then Gods elect will be held accountable on judgment day for not sharing it.
Acts 8:4,
- therefore they that were scattered abroad went everywhere preaching the word
But governments like India's government have passed laws prohibiting any outsider from coming in contact with the Sentinelese.
Does this disprove the gospel is not the sole means by which God saves?
No, that is flawed logic.

To reason that not everyone hears the gospel therefore the gospel is not the means by which God saves is man made reasoning.
We must use the Bible to teach us how to think on these matters.
Since the Bible does not fully reveal how God deals with people who are cut off from the rest of the world we must not speculate.
You must take what God has said to come to the right conclusions.
You don't reason on what He has not said and make conclusions based upon ignorance.

We know God is just, therefore God will justify judge these tribes.
God has not revealed the details of judgement for every unreached person.
Where Scripture is silent, we are silent.

Willful ignorance can and does cause folks to be lost.
What if you are forced into being brought up in ignorance that is out of your control?
Does God deal with all ignorance the same?
Acts 17:30
- the times of ignorance God overlooked....
but now commands all men everywhere to repent

Overlooked their ignorance does not mean saved anyway.
It means Gods judgment takes ignorance into account.

The foolish think, Ignorance of the gospel may possibly not damn some to hell so ignorance is bliss.
The wise think, God said He saves through the gospel therefore I will put all my faith/trust in knowing it, to the best of my ability.

 

[civic]

calvinism downplays the gospel.
Unfortunately for you atpollard, you are fighting against Gods chosen means by which He saves.

calvinism asserts:
God desires to save only the elect.
God withholds the gospel from many e.g. sentinelese.
God regenerates apart from the word.

Compare to Scripture
God desires all to be saved, 1Timothy 2:4.
Christ died for all, 1John 2:2.
Faith only comes by hearing the gospel, Romans 10:17.

The calvinist argument is an attempt to protect a system not follow Scripture.

The Bible never uses "those who never heard" to redefine Gods chosen means to save.

If ignorance was an alternative means by which one could be saved then the worst thing one could do is share the gospel with peoples who never heard it.

The gospel is the power of God unto salvation,
Romans 1:16. Calvinist's don't believe this.
- for I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ for it is the power of God unto salvation...
Acts 4:12,
- neither is there salvation in any other for there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved

The apostles spread the gospel everywhere as Jesus commanded.
Christians are to do the same. If peoples have not heard it. Then Gods elect will be held accountable on judgment day for not sharing it.
Acts 8:4,
- therefore they that were scattered abroad went everywhere preaching the word
But governments like India's government have passed laws prohibiting any outsider from coming in contact with the Sentinelese.
Does this disprove the gospel is not the sole means by which God saves?
No, that is flawed logic.

To reason that not everyone hears the gospel therefore the gospel is not the means by which God saves is man made reasoning.
We must use the Bible to teach us how to think on these matters.
Since the Bible does not fully reveal how God deals with people who are cut off from the rest of the world we must not speculate.
You must take what God has said to come to the right conclusions.
You don't reason on what He has not said and make conclusions based upon ignorance.

We know God is just, therefore God will justify judge these tribes.
God has not revealed the details of judgement for every unreached person.
Where Scripture is silent, we are silent.

Willful ignorance can and does cause folks to be lost.
What if you are forced into being brought up in ignorance that is out of your control?
Does God deal with all ignorance the same?
Acts 17:30
- the times of ignorance God overlooked....
but now commands all men everywhere to repent

Overlooked their ignorance does not mean saved anyway.
It means Gods judgment takes ignorance into account.

The foolish think, Ignorance of the gospel may possibly not damn some to hell so ignorance is bliss.
The wise think, God said He saves through the gospel therefore I will put all my faith/trust in knowing it, to the best of my ability.

You are correct the biblical model is hearing the gospel then believing the gospel which results in regeneration, new birth, born again, salvation, eternal life etc........

the new birth comes after hearing and believing the gospel.

so we see the new birth is a result of hearing and believing the preaching of the word of God. the gospel message.

James 1:18
He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation.

1 Peter 1:25
But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

1 Peter 1:21-24
Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God. 22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for each other, love one another deeply, from the heart. 23 For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God. 24 For,

“All people are like grass,
and all their glory is like the flowers of the field;
the grass withers and the flowers fall,
25 but the word of the Lord endures forever.”
And this is the word that was preached to you.

1 John 5:1
1Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God. Whoever loves the Father also loves the child who is born of him.

Romans 10:17
Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.

Ephesians 5:26
to sanctify her, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,

Ephesians 1:13-14
And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth—the gospel of your salvation—you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, / who is the pledge of our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession, to the praise of His glory.

1 Corinthians 15:1-2
Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

1 Corinthians 4:15
Even if you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we should always thank God for you, brothers who are loved by the Lord, because God chose you from the beginning to be saved by the sanctification of the Spirit and by faith in the truth.

Colossians 1:5-6
the faith and love proceeding from the hope stored up for you in heaven, of which you have already heard in the word of truth, the gospel / that has come to you. All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing, just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and truly understood the grace of God.

John 3:16-18
“For God so loved the world,[i] that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

John 20:30-31
Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

conclusion: the calvinists have this backwards.

hope this helps !!!

 

[atpollard]

Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: - Isaiah 46:10

In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: - Ephesians 1:11

Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed [it] by an oath: - Hebrews 6:17

For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. ... Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth. - Romans 9:15,18

God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass - 1689 Baptist Confession (Chapter 3, Paragraph 1)

We say it, because the Bible says it … John Calvin is irrelevant.​

 

[civic]

Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: - Isaiah 46:10

In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: - Ephesians 1:11

Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed [it] by an oath: - Hebrews 6:17

For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. ... Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth. - Romans 9:15,18

God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass - 1689 Baptist Confession (Chapter 3, Paragraph 1)

We say it, because the Bible says it … John Calvin is irrelevant.​

oops


Jeremiah 7:31
They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded—nor did it enter my mind—that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin.

Jeremiah 19:5
They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.

Jeremiah 32:35
They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded—nor did it enter my mind—that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin.

 

[atpollard]

Unfortunately for you atpollard, you are fighting against Gods chosen means by which He saves.

You are talking nonsense.
I merely claimed that the “Sentinelese” have not heard the gospel. (They speak a unique language and kill any outsider that attempts to visit).

Provide evidence that I am wrong.

I made NO CLAIMS about the means that God uses to save (except that God is sovereign and does the saving) … quote me if you believe otherwise.

If you want to discuss my beliefs, it would be better to ASK ME what I believe rather than make false statements claiming what I believe. I do not presume to tell you what YOU believe, I do not think it unreasonable to expect the same courtesy from someone claiming to also be a fellow “Christian”.

 

[atpollard]

oops


Jeremiah 7:31
They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded—nor did it enter my mind—that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin.

Jeremiah 19:5
They have built the high places of Baal to burn their children in the fire as offerings to Baal—something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.

Jeremiah 32:35
They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded—nor did it enter my mind—that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin.

So should we immediately sharpie-out those false verses in Isaiah, Hebrews, Romans and Ephesians … or do we need to remove the entire books as “uninspired” and place them in the Apocrypha?

Or perhaps you are misusing Jeremiah?

 

[FreeInChrist]

For all: 2018

John Allen Chau Was Determined To Share The Gospel With Earth's Most Isolated Tribe — Then They Killed Him

John Allen Chau was 26 when he was killed on North Sentinel Island in November 2018.

allthatsinteresting.com

The Story Of John Allen Chau, The American Missionary Who Was Killed On North Sentinel Island​

By Austin Harvey | Edited By Cara Johnson
Published May 15, 2025
Updated May 16, 2025

John Allen Chau spent years preparing to travel to North Sentinel Island and convert the isolated tribespeople who live there to Christianity — but shortly after he stepped ashore on November 16, 2018, he was killed by the Sentinelese.​

John Allen Chau/FacebookJohn Allen Chau’s body was never recovered, as it was deemed too dangerous by the Indian government.
While attempting to contact the world’s most isolated Indigenous tribe, the Sentinelese, American evangelical Christian missionary John Allen Chau met a grisly fate.

He traveled to North Sentinel Island in 2018 with the goal of introducing the inhabitants to Christianity. He was convinced that the island was “Satan’s last stronghold on Earth,” and despite the known risks, he made it his mission to convert the tribe.

Almost immediately, Chau was faced with hostility. The Sentinelese began stringing their bows, so he fled, but he soon returned to sing worship songs to the tribe. This time, the islanders seemed to find him amusing, but they rejected his gifts — and even shot an arrow into the Bible he was holding.

Undeterred, Chau returned to the island a final time on Nov. 16, 2018. He was never seen alive again.

John Allen Chau’s Younger Years And Passion For The Outdoors​

John Allen Chau was born on Dec. 18, 1991, in Scottsboro, Alabama. He was the third and youngest child of Lynda Adams-Chau, an organizer for the religious group Chi Alpha, and Patrick Chau, a psychiatrist who immigrated to America during the Chinese Cultural Revolution.

Chau’s family moved to Vancouver, Washington, when he was young, and he grew up surrounded by the natural beauty of the Pacific Northwest. There, he fell in love with the outdoors, and the books he read as a child only added to this passion.

John Allen Chau/InstagramA family picture of the Chau family. John Allen Chau is in the bottom left, being held by his mother. Next to him are his brother, sister, and father.
“Growing up, I remember dusting off a massive tome in my dad’s downstairs study titled Robinson Crusoe,” he said in an interview with The Outbound several years before his death.

“After struggling my way to read it with early elementary school English, I started reading easier kid-friendly books like Hatchet, My Side of the Mountain, and Sign of the Beaver, the latter of which inspired my brother and I to paint our faces with wild blackberry juice and tramp through our backyard with bows and spears we created from sticks. Since then, the outdoors have been my home.”

At the time of the interview, Chau had already traveled to the Andaman Islands in the Indian Ocean, where North Sentinel Island is located. However, he expressed interest in returning, citing it as a “must-do adventure.”

But nature was not Chau’s only passion. He grew up in a devoutly Christian home. His family was seemingly part of the Pentecostal Assemblies of God. He also attended Christian schools in Vancouver and the evangelical Oral Roberts University in Oklahoma.

John Allen Chau/FacebookJohn Allen Chau (back right) with fellow missionaries, dubbed “Team South Africa” in his original post.
During his high school years, he went on a mission trip to Mexico that reaffirmed his faith, despite his own father’s disillusionment with it. In an email to The Guardian in 2019, Dr. Patrick Chau called religion “the opium of the mass[es],” blaming “Western ideology” and “extreme Christianity” for his son’s ultimate fate.

Dr. Chau’s feelings on religion did not carry over to his son, though. John Allen Chau was fully on board with the idea that the word of God should be spread to all — even the isolated Sentinelese people.

Unfortunately for John Allen Chau, the Sentinelese aren’t exactly known for their welcoming, curious nature.

Who Are The Sentinelese People?​

Nutu / Alamy Stock PhotoA group of Sentinelese youth on the island, preparing to drive away the photographer.
The Sentinelese are believed to be direct descendants of the first human populations to migrate out of Africa, and they possibly settled on North Sentinel Island up to 60,000 years ago. They are incredibly reclusive and have been designated a particularly vulnerable tribal group. The Sentinelese have had almost no contact with outsiders — and they are known to have hostile reactions to anyone who approaches them.

Because of this, very little is actually known about the tribe. Estimates of their population vary wildly, ranging from as few as 15 to as many as 500 individuals. Most commonly, though, the cited range is somewhere between 50 and 150 people.

The Sentinelese are hunter-gatherers who rely on the island’s natural resources to survive, primarily hunting wild pigs and fish and collecting fruits and honey. They typically hunt with bows and arrows made from materials found on the island or salvaged from nearby shipwrecks.

Due to their isolation and the mysteries surrounding their culture and way of life, widespread fascination has developed around the Sentinelese. Their language is unclassified, and their beliefs and social structures are largely unknown.

John Allen Chau knew about as much as anyone else about the Sentinelese, including how dangerous it was to visit their island. Still, he felt compelled by a higher power — or, at least, his faith in one — to travel to North Sentinel Island and share the gospel with the tribe.

And it cost him his life.

John Allen Chau’s Fateful Journey To North Sentinel Island​

John Allen Chau/InstagramJohn Allen Chau posted this photo on Oct. 21, 2018, less than a month before his death. He captioned it, “Kayaking the tropics in this endless summer.”
Between 2015 and 2016, Chau took four trips to the Andaman Islands, where he made several contacts in the local Christian community. However, he did not visit North Sentinel Island at the time.

Then, in 2017, he was accepted to a boot camp run by All Nations International. The Kansas City-based organization, which later touted John Allen Chau as a martyr, had the express goal of trying to ensure that Jesus was “worshipped by every tongue, tribe, and nation.” To help missionaries prepare to spread the Lord’s message, they conducted mock village and role-play scenarios to help trainees get a feel for the situations they might find themselves in.

According to Mary Ho, All Nations’ international executive leader, Chau was one of the best trainees the program had ever seen.
“We are honored to have shared John’s unique missions journey,” Ho later said, according to the All Nations website. “His God-given calling to reach the Sentinelese people was an unusual one. John believed he was joining God’s mission to share His love with them… Still today, no one from the outside has learned the way they speak or think. Yet, John went, carrying no weapon, only a Bible and fish, gifts they would recognize.”

Chau also kept a diary of his last trip, which shows just how earnest he was in his attempt. He underwent a self-imposed 11-day quarantine to avoid accidentally infecting the Sentinelese with any diseases they’d never been exposed to. He also studied the accounts of other missionaries who met with isolated tribes.

But perhaps Chau should have read the story of Michael Rockefeller and the grisly fate he met when he attempted to make contact with the Asmat tribe. It might have served as a warning for what was to come.

What Happened To John Allen Chau? Inside The Missionary’s Final Days​

John Allen Chau/InstagramJohn Allen Chau kayaking in the summer of 2017.
In November 2018, John Allen Chau asked some fishermen to take him to North Sentinel. On Nov. 14, they sailed toward the island in the darkness and anchored their boat nearby. The next morning, Chau headed toward the island alone, as the fishermen refused to approach it. Chau stripped down to his underwear, believing it would put the Sentinelese at ease, and paddled a kayak toward the beach, shouting to the tribespeople as he approached, “My name is John. I love you, and Jesus loves you!”

In response, the Sentinelese began loading their bows. Chau panicked, tossed them some fish he had brought as a gift, and turned away, paddling back to the fishermen’s boat. He made a second attempt later that same day, brought more gifts with him, and tried to communicate with the Sentinelese by repeating the sounds they were making at him. This made the tribespeople burst into laughter, though they did let him linger for a bit while he sang worship songs and preached from Genesis.

A Sentinelese boy then shot an arrow at John Allen Chau, which embedded itself in the waterproof Bible he was holding. Chau removed the arrow and retreated, but this time, he didn’t have his kayak — the Sentinelese had taken it. Chau had to swim nearly a mile back to the fishing boat. Still, he was determined “to declare Jesus to these people,” as he wrote in a letter to his family.

Christian Caron/Creative CommonsThe Sentinelese standing guard on a beach in 2005.
On Nov. 16, Chau made one last attempt. He asked the fishermen to drop him off and drive the boat away, hoping that without the vessel nearby, the islanders would feel more comfortable. It was a shot in the dark, and Chau knew it. He wrote in his diary, “I think I could be more useful alive, but to you, God, I give all the glory of whatever happens.”

The fishermen didn’t see what happened. When they returned, however, they saw the Sentinelese dragging Chau’s dead body across the beach.

Questions initially arose about bringing Chau’s body back home, but the Indian government determined that it was simply too dangerous. John Allen Chau’s remains are on North Sentinel Island to this day.

---

After reading about John Allen Chau’s fateful encounter with the Sentinelese people, learn about the Korowai tribe, the isolated Papuan people who live in treehouses — and allegedly engage in cannibalism. Then, learn about Tristan da Cunha, the most isolated inhabited place on planet Earth

 

[civic]

So should we immediately sharpie-out those false verses in Isaiah, Hebrews, Romans and Ephesians … or do we need to remove the entire books as “uninspired” and place them in the Apocrypha?

Or perhaps you are misusing Jeremiah?

perhaps you are misunderstanding the verses you quoted making them universal instead of specific meaning from their intended context. just a thought you might consider in your studies

 

[Titus]

Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times [the things] that are not [yet] done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: - Isaiah 46:10

In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: - Ephesians 1:11

Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed [it] by an oath: - Hebrews 6:17

For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. ... Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth. - Romans 9:15,18

God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass - 1689 Baptist Confession (Chapter 3, Paragraph 1)

We say it, because the Bible says it … John Calvin is irrelevant.​

2Peter 1:20-21,
- knowing this first that no prophecy of the scriptures is of any private interpretation
- for the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Spirit

Quoting verses doesn't prove the word is treaching Calvinism.
All of the verses you quoted are misrepresented by your church doctrine.

For example:

In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: - Ephesians 1:11

Those predestined to be saved through the gospel.
Paul is teaching Gods sovereign purpose and plan not unconditional individual election.

Key phrase: In Him...
- IN Him also we have obtained an inheritance being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will

Calvinism reading into the text,
Predestined = God individually chose who would believe.
Works all things = God causes every human choice.
Counsel of His will= God irresistably determines salvation outcomes.

None of this is stated in the text.

What Paul is treaching,
Predestination is IN Christ.
This matches,
Ephesians 1:4 - chosen IN Him
Ephesians 1:7 - redemption IN Him
Ephesians 1:13 - sealed after believing

works all things does not mean causes all choices
Scripture itself refutes this.
God does not cause sin, James 1:13.
God does not tempt to evil.
Humans resist God, Acts 7:5.

Works all things means God accomplishes His redemptive plan even through human free will.
Genesis 50:20,
- but as for you ye thought evil against me; but God meant it for good to bring to pass as it is this day to save much people alive

Context destroys calvinist interpretation.
Ephesians 1:13,
IN Him you also trusted AFTER AFTER AFTER, you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation

The order is clear,
Heard the gospel.
Believed the gospel
Then were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise

This is incompatible with,
Regeneration before faith, before hearing the gospel, before believing the gospel.
Sealed with the Holy Spirit before hearing the gospel? Before faith?
Paul was not a calvinist theologian!!! He was a new testament gospel preacher.

Heres a parallel passage,
Acts 13:48,
- as many as were appointed to eternal life believed

summary
Ephesians 1:11 teaches that God predestined the inheritance and destiny of those who are IN Christ, not that He unconditionally chose individuals to believe apart from the gospel.