The New birth comes after hearing/believing the gospel

[TomL]

No they are not

Sorry unrepentant unbelievers are not justified


Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Rom 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Philippians 3:9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,

 

[brightfame52]

Yeah, they are

No they are not

 

[TomL]

No they are not

Sorry unrepentant unbelievers are not justified


Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

Rom 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

Philippians 3:9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry unrepentant unbelievers are not justified

The elect are for whom Christ died. He justified the ungodly while ungodly

 

[FreeInChrist]

The Just or Justified, one and the same. Those that Christ died for and Justified shall live by Faith

YOU DID NOT SAY THAT

Sure it does, the elect are born as ungodly unbelievers but difference being they were Justified at the Cross which is verified by Christ resurrection Rom 4:25

You said the ungodly unbelievers were justified at the cross.

You wrote that... I did not.

 

[TomL]

The elect are for whom Christ died. He justified the ungodly while ungodly

Nope

Christ died for all

Christ died

1. For all (1 Tim. 2:6; Isa. 53:6).

2. For every man (Heb. 2:9).

3. For the world (John 3:16).

4. For the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2).

5. For the ungodly (Rom. 5:6).

6. For false teachers (2 Peter 2:1).

7. For many (Matt. 20:28).

8. For Israel (John 11:50–51).

9. For the Church (Eph. 5:25).

10. For "me" (Gal. 2:20).

and all men are justified through faith

Rom 3:22–24

that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus,

Gal 2:16

but knowing that a person is not justified by the works of the law, if not by faith in Jesus Christ, and we have believed in Christ Jesus so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no human being will be justified.

Acts 13:39

by this one everyone who believes is justified!

Gal 3:22

But the scripture imprisoned all under sin, in order that the promise could be given by faith in Jesus Christ to those who believe.

Acts 13:38–39

“Therefore let it be known to you, men and brothers, that through this one forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and from all the things from which you were not able to be justified by the law of Moses, 39 by this one everyone who believes is justified!

Acts 10:43

To this one all the prophets testify, that through his name everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins.”

Acts 26:18

to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a share among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

Romans 3:23–25

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God made publicly available as the mercy seat through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness, because of the passing over of previously committed sins,

Rom 5:1

Therefore, because we have been declared righteous by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

 

[brightfame52]

YOU DID NOT SAY THAT

Sure I did

 

[brightfame52]

Nope

Yes

Christ died for all

All the Justified, Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

 

[TomL]

Yes

All the Justified, Rom 5:18

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

Duh that is all men


Christ died

1. For all (1 Tim. 2:6; Isa. 53:6).



1 Timothy 2:6 (NASB 95) — 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.

Isaiah 53:6 (NASB 95) — 6 All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him.





2. For every man (Heb. 2:9).



Hebrews 2:9 (NASB 95) — 9 But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.



3. For the world (John 3:16).



John 3:16 (NASB 95) — 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.



4. For the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2).



1 John 2:2 (NASB 95) — 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.



5. For the ungodly (Rom. 5:6).



Romans 5:6 (NASB 95) — 6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.





6. For false teachers (2 Peter 2:1).



2 Peter 2:1 (NASB 95) — 1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.



7. For many (Matt. 20:28).



Matthew 20:28 (NASB 95) — 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”



8. For Israel (John 11:50–51).



John 11:50–51 (NASB 95) — 50 nor do you take into account that it is expedient for you that one man die for the people, and that the whole nation not perish.” 51 Now he did not say this on his own initiative, but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation,



9. For the Church (Eph. 5:25).



Ephesians 5:25 (NASB 95) — 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her,



10. For "me" (Gal. 2:20).



Galatians 2:20 (NASB 95) — 20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

 

[TibiasDad]

It's an established truth.

It’s an established opinion, but not a truth!

Yes as Justified by the blood of Christ Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Nobody denies this; what I deny is that this justification limited by God, that it is not available for all to receive if they believe.

Paul is specifically referring current believers, and by extension, anyone believing now.

Doug

 

[civic]

It’s an established opinion, but not a truth!

Nobody denies this; what I deny is that this justification limited by God, that it is not available for all to receive if they believe.

Paul is specifically referring current believers, and by extension, anyone believing now.

Doug

Yes the context proves his doctrine is in error.

 

[TibiasDad]

It's not about what you remember. Spiritual Truth is received by Faith

Nice try, but I don’t see an answer to my question: what scripture says, “Faith received the Justication which already existed from what Christ accomplished”?
What scripture says faith receives anything?

Doug

 

[brightfame52]

Duh that is all men

All justified men

 

[brightfame52]

Nobody denies this

Plenty deny it

 

[brightfame52]

Paul is specifically referring current believers

Of course, but they weren't when Jesus Blood Justified them.

 

[brightfame52]

Nice try, but I don’t see an answer to my question: what scripture says, “Faith received the Justication which already existed from what Christ accomplished”?
What scripture says faith receives anything?

Doug

It's a lot of things you don't see. Faith is given to receive truth from God.

 

[TomL]

All justified men

Nope

Duh that is all men


Christ died

1. For all (1 Tim. 2:6; Isa. 53:6).



1 Timothy 2:6 (NASB 95) — 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.

Isaiah 53:6 (NASB 95) — 6 All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him.





2. For every man (Heb. 2:9).



Hebrews 2:9 (NASB 95) — 9 But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.



3. For the world (John 3:16).



John 3:16 (NASB 95) — 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.



4. For the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2).



1 John 2:2 (NASB 95) — 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.



5. For the ungodly (Rom. 5:6).



Romans 5:6 (NASB 95) — 6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.





6. For false teachers (2 Peter 2:1).



2 Peter 2:1 (NASB 95) — 1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.



7. For many (Matt. 20:28).



Matthew 20:28 (NASB 95) — 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”



8. For Israel (John 11:50–51).



John 11:50–51 (NASB 95) — 50 nor do you take into account that it is expedient for you that one man die for the people, and that the whole nation not perish.” 51 Now he did not say this on his own initiative, but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation,



9. For the Church (Eph. 5:25).



Ephesians 5:25 (NASB 95) — 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her,



10. For "me" (Gal. 2:20).



Galatians 2:20 (NASB 95) — 20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

 

[TibiasDad]

Plenty deny it

You and I don’t, and that’s all that matters in this discussion between the two of us.

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Of course, but they weren't when Jesus Blood Justified them.

No unbeliever is justified in scripture! They are atoned for, so that God can forgive them. They are not yet forgiven- that can only occur after confession and repentance- but they are now able to be forgiven when and if they believe.

Jesus’s blood was shed for all men (as @TomL has demonstrated clearly), thus, all men are capable of being saved if they believe. But being able to be saved does not equate to being justified, for being saved is synonymous with being justified. We are only actually justified after we believe.


Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

It's a lot of things you don't see. Faith is given to receive truth from God.

I still don’t see an answer to my question: what scripture says faith receives anything, if not specifically “justification” as you claim?

Truth is given to elicit faith in it.

Doug