The Myth of Pelagianism

[Presby02]

A time of peace

Who said it would be a time of peace?

 

[TomL]

There is no clear definition of Orthodoxy relative to Eschatology. Dispensationalism has long been accepted among the "Reformed". Study Sproul a little more..... You need help.

This is true. I argued such in my membership class.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Just take your word for it right? This is why you don't make things up.

I didn't make anything up.

Tell you what. Do you want to have a public debate on this very subject?

 

[civic]

Who said it would be a time of peace?

The Bible lol . Got Scripture???

 

[civic]

This is true. I argued such in my membership class.

Agreed

 

[civic]

This is true. I argued such in my membership class.

The one thing the is not up for debate is His literal physical 2nd Coming

 

[praise_yeshua]

The one thing the is not up for debate is His literal physical 2nd Coming

Absolutely. Even so come Lord Jesus......

 

[TomL]

I will quote @Rockson

" Preterists have asserted a pretty bold claim that all the things of Revelation occurred before or on 70 AD. They MUST therefore have the writing of Revelations to take place before that date. I would tend to think that if that were true God would know it would be crucial to define when Revelation was written. I would expect a statement similar to Luke 2: 1,2 on a different subject

Now in those days a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that a census should be taken of the whole empire. 2This was the first census to take place while Quirinius was governor of Syria.

If preterims were true I'd expect a statement like that. It would have settled the issue. We don't read of such a qualifier therefore I'd hold that seeing God didn't want to see the time frame closed it leads me to believe in futurism at least with most of the things within Revelation. "

You see as a preterist you must change the dates of many N.T. books and give them pre 70 AD dates when all the real scholars put them between 85- 95 AD.

That would be full preterism.

That would certainly be problematic

Partial preterism holds only some things transpired by 70 A.D.

 

[TomL]

The one thing the is not up for debate is His literal physical 2nd Coming

It's yet future along with the resurrection and rapture.

 

[praise_yeshua]

It's yet future along with the resurrection and rapture.

I must admit that I'm skeptical of what is considered the "rapture". I don't try to make a big deal of it but I don't see the evidence for such. If someone wants to believe it, I don't think it hurts anything. Just making the point. We can discuss in another thread if you like.

 

[civic]

It's yet future along with the resurrection and rapture.

Amen

 

[TomL]

Amen

I would classify any of the major eschatologies orthodox as long as they hold those future though I might disagree with certain views.

 

[TomL]

I must admit that I'm skeptical of what is considered the "rapture". I don't try to make a big deal of it but I don't see the evidence for such. If someone wants to believe it, I don't think it hurts anything. Just making the point. We can discuss in another thread if you like.

Well I would agree there is a catching up, but I would deny the pre-trib rapture of dispensationalism.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Well I would agree there is a catching up, but I would deny the pre-trib rapture of dispensationalism.

I can agree with this.

 

[TomL]

I can agree with this.

Ok

 

[civic]

I can agree with this.

I can disagree but it’s one of those non essentials that I don’t care debating about. Now the 2nd Coming I consider essential

 

[TomL]

I can disagree but it’s one of those non essentials that I don’t care debating about. Now the 2nd Coming I consider essential

Agreed

 

[Rockson]

I can disagree but it’s one of those non essentials that I don’t care debating about. Now the 2nd Coming I consider essential

I like the passage in 2 Pt 3 which I think all can really see that it inspires them in sanctification regardless as to when one thinks the rapture occurs.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.14Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

I think that touches bases with all of us. It's Bible of course but I recall watching the movie Barabbas and they used this passage to keep the Christian community to keep a right healthy perspective and how we're all to think of this world, as in all that we hold dear here or that we make such a big deal about.....in the bigger picture of things it will all pass away so we're better to keep our vision fixed on the bigger picture of what God says our future will be.

 

[TomL]

I like the passage in 2 Pt 3 which I think all can really see that it inspires them in sanctification regardless as to when one thinks the rapture occurs.

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.14Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

I think that touches bases with all of us. It's Bible of course but I recall watching the movie Barabbas and they used this passage to keep the Christian community to keep a right healthy perspective and how we're all to think of this world, as in all that we hold dear here or that we make such a big deal about.....in the bigger picture of things it will all pass away so we're better to keep our vision fixed on the bigger picture of what God says our future will be.

I believe that makes it pretty clear there can be no old earth millenium at the advent of Christ

 

[praise_yeshua]

I believe that makes it pretty clear there can be no old earth millenium at the advent of Christ

There are many interesting views that revolve around the "day of the Lord". Good points on many sides.