The Judge On Judgement Day

Wrangler

Wrangler

Well-known member
I came across this verse in my devotional reading and want to get your thoughts.
John 12:47​
Contemporary English Version​
47 I am not the one who will judge those who refuse to obey my teachings. I came to save the people of this world, not to be their judge.​

Other places it says that God will not judge but the son. So, who will be the judge on judgement day if not Jesus?
?
 
Wrangler said:
I came across this verse in my devotional reading and want to get your thoughts.
John 12:47​
Contemporary English Version​
47 I am not the one who will judge those who refuse to obey my teachings. I came to save the people of this world, not to be their judge.​

Other places it says that God will not judge but the son. So, who will be the judge on judgement day if not Jesus?
?
Click to expand...

In my opinion, Jesus is speaking of himself in his earthly incarnation. At that point in time, he was not there to judge, but to save.

Heb 9:28So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

The bringing of salvation is an aspect of judgement as is the pronouncement of condemnation on those who have rejected him.

Matthew 25:31“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

This is the judgement seat of Christ. He will judge us all!

Doug
 
Wrangler said:
Other places it says that God will not judge but the son. So, who will be the judge on judgement day if not Jesus?
?
Click to expand...
Yes, JESUS is the LORD the Ancient of days. Daniel 7:9 "I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire." Daniel 7:10 "A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened."

for the "LORD" is JESUS, said this. NT, Philippians 2:10 "That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;". Philippians 2:11 "And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." now JESUS OT as LORD, Isaiah 45:22 "Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else." Isaiah 45:23 "I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear."

same ONE PERSON.

101G.
 
101G said:
Yes, JESUS is the LORD the Ancient of days.
Click to expand...
Right out of the gate you go into a ditch. Nowhere does Scripture say Jesus is capital-LORD.

Too bad you are not able to answer my question of who will judge us if not Jesus.
 
Wrangler said:
Right out of the gate you go into a ditch. Nowhere does Scripture say Jesus is capital-LORD.

Too bad you are not able to answer my question of who will judge us if not Jesus.
Click to expand...
Just for starters Psalms 110:1 and 5. well? your answer please if you can.

101G.
 
TibiasDad said:
In my opinion, Jesus is speaking of himself in his earthly incarnation. At that point in time, he was not there to judge, but to save.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry. Seems I don't get all the replies. Thanks for responding.

Your take is plausible except for Jeuss not giving a time-dependent answer. He said he is not the one who will judge, PERIOD. So, it is in apparent conflict with verses that say he will judge.
 
Wrangler said:
I cannot understand your quesiton.
Click to expand...
GINOLJC, to all.
Sure, let 101G make it plain for you. the "Lord" in Psalms 110:1 is the same "Lord" in Psalms 110:5. (who sit at his, (the LORD'S), right). who is YHWH by title. let 101G make it Clear. using the Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments, "Lord" in verse 1
H113 אָדוֹן 'adown (aw-done') n-m.
אָדֹן 'adon (aw-done') [shortened]
1. sovereign (i.e. controller, human or divine).
2. lord.
{also used as a prefix for names}
[from an unused root (meaning to rule)]
KJV: lord, master, owner.
Compare: H136

PLEASE NOTE: "Lord" here is H113. now the same "Lord" (at the right), in verse 5,

Psalms 110:5 "The Lord at thy right hand shall strike through kings in the day of his wrath." the "Lord" here is
H136 אֲדֹנָי 'Adonay (ad-o-noy') n-m.
1. (meaning) Lord (used as a proper name of God only).
2. (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel” - see Exodus 5:1 and 120 other occurrences).
[am emphatic form of H113]
KJV: (my) Lord.
Root(s): H113

the Lord Here is ......if you note definition #2, is the PERSON, the PERSON, the PERSON, (person) Adonai, The Lord God of Israel (which is actually “Yahweh God of Israel” who is the "LORD" in verse 1.

but is not the "LORD" all caps in verse 1 the PERSON God there, YHWH? yes, so can you tell us HOW the "Lord", and the "LORD" is the same one PERSON?

remember the "Lord" in verse 5 is the emphatic form of H113 "My Lord" in verse 1.

and the term "emphatic" means, showing or giving emphasis; expressing something forcibly and clearly:

so clearly and forcibly, the Lord in verse 1 the same person who is the Lord in verse 5, who it the same "LORD" , all caps in verse 1..... (smile).

so 101G is asking, "is the "PERSON" Lord here in Psalms 110:1 & 5 the same one Person who is "LORD" all caps in verse 1. your answer please.

101G.
 
Wrangler said:
I'm sorry. Seems I don't get all the replies. Thanks for responding.

Your take is plausible except for Jeuss not giving a time-dependent answer. He said he is not the one who will judge, PERIOD. So, it is in apparent conflict with verses that say he will judge.
Click to expand...
The fact that the two statements are in different tenses is enough to indicate the time-dependence of the truth of those statements. Two different comings and two different purposes for those separate comings. He came to save and not judge in the first instance, and he save it to save, but to judge in the second.
Two indicative statements about two different points in times: present and future!

Jesus does not say he will never judge, and to claim that cannot be construed by Greek standards of syntax.


Doug
 
Wrangler said:
I came across this verse in my devotional reading and want to get your thoughts.
John 12:47​
Contemporary English Version​
47 I am not the one who will judge those who refuse to obey my teachings. I came to save the people of this world, not to be their judge.​

Other places it says that God will not judge but the son. So, who will be the judge on judgement day if not Jesus?
?
Click to expand...
How about reading the entire Bible?
There are 31,102 verses. Why would you take a single verse to identify so important an individual?
 
TibiasDad said:
Jesus does not say he will never judge
Click to expand...
Doug, this is absurd reasoning, projecting a possible future state condition that is not necessary to assume.

It's sufficient that Jesus explained his reasons for coming. It is a contraction to read into his words that he did not mean "never" when he said why he did NOT come. "I did not come to judge" ≠ "Although I'm not going to judge now, I will most certainly judge in the future."
 
Wrangler said:
Smart *** question. Not inclined to post here too often with such foolishness.
Click to expand...
Sorry you feel that way. It was an honest question.

Wrangler said:
I've read the entire Bible multiple times.
Click to expand...
Awesome.
With some of the ideas I've seen posted in the past several days, I had to ask.

Wrangler said:
If you don't want to examine certain verses, feel free to post in other threads.
Click to expand...
I'm not bothered by the verse.
Reading the rest of the bible I see that it states in Revelation 20,

Rev 20:11-15 WEB 11 I saw a great white throne and him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. There was found no place for them.

12 I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and they opened books. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it. Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. They were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.

I see in Isaiah 45:23

Isa 45:21-25 WEB 21 Declare and present it. Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has shown this from ancient time? Who has declared it of old? Haven’t I, Yahweh? There is no other God besides me, a just God and a Savior. There is no one besides me. 22 “Look to me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. 23 I have sworn by myself. The word has gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and will not be revoked, that to me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall take an oath. 24 They will say of me, ‘There is righteousness and strength only in Yahweh.’” Even to him will men come. All those who raged against him will be disappointed. 25 All the offspring of Israel will be justified in Yahweh, and will rejoice!

Paul quotes it in Romans 14,

Rom 14:11 WEB For it is written, “‘As I live,’ says the Lord, ‘to me every knee will bow. Every tongue will confess to God.’”

It then sounds similar to Philippians 2,

Phi 2:9-11 WEB 9 Therefore God also highly exalted him, and gave to him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, those on earth, and those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


I see several more such passages, so yes.
 
Wrangler said:
Doug, this is absurd reasoning, projecting a possible future state condition that is not necessary to assume.

It's sufficient that Jesus explained his reasons for coming. It is a contraction to read into his words that he did not mean "never" when he said why he did NOT come. "I did not come to judge" ≠ "Although I'm not going to judge now, I will most certainly judge in the future."
Click to expand...
Precisely! You are the one whose argument implies that he is saying he would never judge!

The first statement says “ I am not sent to judge presently”, while the second statement says “But, I will judge when I return.” Then and now statements can be different without being contradictory!

Doug
 

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