Diserner
Well-known member
I have noticed this is an attribute of God that many will deny in a misguided quest to protect and preserve his glory.
Even a Calvinist can choke on it: https://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/is-god-humble
Piper thinks Jesus "took on" humility but the Father never was humble.
Quite an unusual view, since the Son is said to be the exact character of the Father.
The denial is partly a misguided attempt to protect God's honor and glory.
And this is simply through a false understanding of humility.
Humility is not necessarily "being humbled," where a person is disgraced or punished; even a proud person can be "humbled" in that sense with no humility.
Humility is not necessarily an acknowledgement you are inferior in some way—although it can be the virtue of honesty for a limited creature.
Humility can also be the willingness to lower yourself in places you are not obligated to do so.
For a thrice-holy God to forgive offenses to his virtue and glory, is by any definition a humble act, for he is not obligated to do so.
Even for a God to create at all is lowering himself in some sense to share his glory and affection.
I find Muslims in particular seem to really dislike the idea of God being humble, for their Allah is the top boss who is so far above humans he will never deign to be like them.
Conversely it's true that one can become over-familiar with God and it's difficult to retain his loftiness in the mind, and beliefs like Calvinism appeal to our desire to instate God properly.
I think the humility of God ties in very much with the incarnation.
All the objections of "God would never" are based in the idea that it would just be too disgraceful and too lowly for God to this severely humble himself.
God following his own laws? God worshiping his own self? God limiting himself under no obligation to do so?
It just seems degrading.
Here is a more balanced article:
Here's a bit I wrote recently:
Jesus applies for the job of God
An archangel sits at a desk full of papers, while talking on the phone; Jesus walks in.
“Welcome to application for God, the only job were being overqualified is an absolute must! Just take a number and sit anywhere, we’ll get to you shortly.”
Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva the destroyer of worlds, get the bad news: “I’m sorry, you just don’t quite cut the mustard today.”
The angel picks up Jesus' resume, “Now let’s see here, mhm, yes, yes…. quite promising,” as he takes a sit in front of the desk.
“Alpha and omega, all things created through you and for you, upholds all things by the word of your power, defeated death, holds the power of life, all authority in heaven and earth, before Abraham was you exist in the very beginning, all things in heaven and earth praise you, sitting on the very throne of God… good, good. So far, so good. But I have some reservations here at the bottom.”
“Yes?”
“Well, there’s this bit about humbling yourself and taking on the form of a servant… and becoming submitted to this other person who apparently, holds all your qualifications as well.”
”Would that be a problem?”
”Well, typically see, we want to think of God in terms of, well, to be frank, not subject to anything or with anything above him, and definitely not….” Choking a bit on the words, “Definitely not becoming a lowly creation, ugh.”
“Wouldn’t that be amazing for a God to do, though, if you think about it, to show actual humility when he has absolutely no obligation to do so…”
“It’s just not how things are done! Think of the disgrace it would bring, that the infinite and supreme could so condescend and humiliate itself just seems absolutely shameful!”
“I see. But wouldn’t that, in the end, be putting limits and demands on God, wouldn’t that be putting a kind of creaturely pride that always wants to grasp its ego and hold on to what it has at all costs, instead of being the supremely sacrificial actor…”
“Yes, but it’s GOD we are talking about here. You can’t just take a holiday. You can’t just lower yourself and actually limit and submit yourself, it’s terrible, it’s preposterous, it’s…”
“Wouldn’t it be the ultimate act of humility and sacrifice in a way, in fact the supreme expression of love?”
“Well, uh, erm, I…. some things just should never be!”
“Might I ask what YOUR qualifications are to determine what a God should or should not be?!”
The angel’s face flushed red.
“Well, sir, I was appointed this position by… um, let’s see… um, by you in fact!”
“Exactly.”
And Jesus calmly got up, patted the archangel on the back, and walked out the door.
~ ~ ~
Now the point of this story is by denying God the right to the attribute and display of humility, you are in fact impinging on his authority and power.
This is why Peter was not being humble when he said "Lord, you will never wash my feet."
Ever think about that? It sure sounds humble, doesn't it, all he wants to do is maintain respect for his lord?
Oh no, that alone would not elicit such a sharp rebuke of do this or you have no part in me.
It was actually secret hidden vicarious pride in the idea of being a part of sharing Jesus' glory—and Jesus' extreme humility spotlighted and exposed it.
And this is what is behind the distaste for God becoming a man.
It is exposing the lack of humility we all have about God's glory not being our own to do with as we please.
God can humble himself.
And he did.
Even a Calvinist can choke on it: https://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/is-god-humble
Piper thinks Jesus "took on" humility but the Father never was humble.
Quite an unusual view, since the Son is said to be the exact character of the Father.
The denial is partly a misguided attempt to protect God's honor and glory.
And this is simply through a false understanding of humility.
Humility is not necessarily "being humbled," where a person is disgraced or punished; even a proud person can be "humbled" in that sense with no humility.
Humility is not necessarily an acknowledgement you are inferior in some way—although it can be the virtue of honesty for a limited creature.
Humility can also be the willingness to lower yourself in places you are not obligated to do so.
For a thrice-holy God to forgive offenses to his virtue and glory, is by any definition a humble act, for he is not obligated to do so.
Even for a God to create at all is lowering himself in some sense to share his glory and affection.
I find Muslims in particular seem to really dislike the idea of God being humble, for their Allah is the top boss who is so far above humans he will never deign to be like them.
Conversely it's true that one can become over-familiar with God and it's difficult to retain his loftiness in the mind, and beliefs like Calvinism appeal to our desire to instate God properly.
I think the humility of God ties in very much with the incarnation.
All the objections of "God would never" are based in the idea that it would just be too disgraceful and too lowly for God to this severely humble himself.
God following his own laws? God worshiping his own self? God limiting himself under no obligation to do so?
It just seems degrading.
Here is a more balanced article:
Here's a bit I wrote recently:
Jesus applies for the job of God
An archangel sits at a desk full of papers, while talking on the phone; Jesus walks in.
“Welcome to application for God, the only job were being overqualified is an absolute must! Just take a number and sit anywhere, we’ll get to you shortly.”
Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva the destroyer of worlds, get the bad news: “I’m sorry, you just don’t quite cut the mustard today.”
The angel picks up Jesus' resume, “Now let’s see here, mhm, yes, yes…. quite promising,” as he takes a sit in front of the desk.
“Alpha and omega, all things created through you and for you, upholds all things by the word of your power, defeated death, holds the power of life, all authority in heaven and earth, before Abraham was you exist in the very beginning, all things in heaven and earth praise you, sitting on the very throne of God… good, good. So far, so good. But I have some reservations here at the bottom.”
“Yes?”
“Well, there’s this bit about humbling yourself and taking on the form of a servant… and becoming submitted to this other person who apparently, holds all your qualifications as well.”
”Would that be a problem?”
”Well, typically see, we want to think of God in terms of, well, to be frank, not subject to anything or with anything above him, and definitely not….” Choking a bit on the words, “Definitely not becoming a lowly creation, ugh.”
“Wouldn’t that be amazing for a God to do, though, if you think about it, to show actual humility when he has absolutely no obligation to do so…”
“It’s just not how things are done! Think of the disgrace it would bring, that the infinite and supreme could so condescend and humiliate itself just seems absolutely shameful!”
“I see. But wouldn’t that, in the end, be putting limits and demands on God, wouldn’t that be putting a kind of creaturely pride that always wants to grasp its ego and hold on to what it has at all costs, instead of being the supremely sacrificial actor…”
“Yes, but it’s GOD we are talking about here. You can’t just take a holiday. You can’t just lower yourself and actually limit and submit yourself, it’s terrible, it’s preposterous, it’s…”
“Wouldn’t it be the ultimate act of humility and sacrifice in a way, in fact the supreme expression of love?”
“Well, uh, erm, I…. some things just should never be!”
“Might I ask what YOUR qualifications are to determine what a God should or should not be?!”
The angel’s face flushed red.
“Well, sir, I was appointed this position by… um, let’s see… um, by you in fact!”
“Exactly.”
And Jesus calmly got up, patted the archangel on the back, and walked out the door.
~ ~ ~
Now the point of this story is by denying God the right to the attribute and display of humility, you are in fact impinging on his authority and power.
This is why Peter was not being humble when he said "Lord, you will never wash my feet."
Ever think about that? It sure sounds humble, doesn't it, all he wants to do is maintain respect for his lord?
Oh no, that alone would not elicit such a sharp rebuke of do this or you have no part in me.
It was actually secret hidden vicarious pride in the idea of being a part of sharing Jesus' glory—and Jesus' extreme humility spotlighted and exposed it.
And this is what is behind the distaste for God becoming a man.
It is exposing the lack of humility we all have about God's glory not being our own to do with as we please.
God can humble himself.
And he did.
