The Gospels Codex from 78 AD - where is it?

[praise_yeshua]

Now you're just being silly. I've posted so much evidence which blows your understanding out of the water. You've proven you do not know the history of the LXX. Or how Josephus translated his works. Or of the who the New Testament letters were addressed to. Read the list of scholars I included and get back to me then.

Did Paul write to Gentiles? How did they read His words? Were His letters Scripture?

When HEBREWS sought to stone Paul in Acts 22, those Jews understood the proceedings. They even stopped running their mouths when Paul spoke to them in HEBREW... Not Aramaic. HEBREW.

They knew both. Hebrew was well known among the ruling class in the Temple. The same men sought kill Paul because he gave the Scriptures to Gentiles.

Act 22:2 (And when they heard that he spake in the Hebrew tongue to them, they kept the more silence: and he saith,)

I always.... ALWAYS consider the reliability of internal evidence to be most important. You can discount this and go with your "sources" if you like. I'll believe the Scripture.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Report back to discuss when you have read the research of Michaelis, Neubauer, Murdoch, Etheridge, Norton, Torrey, and Burney. Report back when you have examined the Latin descriptions of the codex in 2 official publications of the Vatican Library which were approved by the Pope of that time.

I'll share a very good source. Maybe the best. He isn't a Christian. He isn't overly religious. His name is Emanuel Tov. It is well known fact that early Jews hated Christianity because of the extensive use of the Greek LXX. If you insist on starting with commentary, you might want to consider reading a little from him.

 

[Dizerner]

I think there would be more evidence of an Aramaic original of the Gospels, but it's not literally impossible.

Certainly we should not be naive, and something that looks "too good to be true," will seem more like a plant than authentic.

I find in practice, it just creates doubt about the inspiration of what we already have, and certain people use it as if they discovered special knowledge.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

I find in practice, it just creates doubt about the inspiration of what we already have, and certain people use it as if they discovered special knowledge.

Who is this "we" you talk about? The West has the Greek. The East has the Aramaic. Its' been that way for 2000 years. Just because you and most of the western Christians have no clue about the 2000 year old Aramaic tradition of the New Testament in no way invalidates it or makes the Greek any better. The Greek primacists want to play "oldest was first" - which is logical. But the 78 AD Aramaic Codex puts that in question. Which is why there is so much animosity expressed by people here (who can't even spend the effort to research it).

Experts in both Greek and Aramaic who are not beholden to a tenured position (of which there are very few) have examined the texts very closely. There are just hundreds of examples internally within the texts that the Greek is a translation. It can be very easily proven. But it must be examined with an open mind. There isn't a single person in this thread that has demonstrated even a smidgen of that kind of attitude. So I haven't included even the best evidences because it would be summarily dismissed just like every other evidence I've posted.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Who is this "we" you talk about? The West has the Greek. The East has the Aramaic. Its' been that way for 2000 years. Just because you and most of the western Christians have no clue about the 2000 year old Aramaic tradition of the New Testament in no way invalidates it or makes the Greek any better. The Greek primacists want to play "oldest was first" - which is logical. But the 78 AD Aramaic Codex puts that in question. Which is why there is so much animosity expressed by people here (who can't even spend the effort to research it).

Aramaic in the NT is conjecture. Nothing more. The Greek word used is a reference to the Hebrew semitic languages that was distinctly different from Aramaic. There are choices to be made. You're make a choice that is least supported by the evidence.

Experts in both Greek and Aramaic who are not beholden to a tenured position (of which there are very few) have examined the texts very closely. There are just hundreds of examples internally within the texts that the Greek is a translation. It can be very easily proven. But it must be examined with an open mind. There isn't a single person in this thread that has demonstrated even a smidgen of that kind of attitude. So I haven't included even the best evidences because it would be summarily dismissed just like every other evidence I've posted.

There is ZERO internal evidence to the Scriptures that supports your claim. Zero. Sure, you can find some "nut" that loves to get paid for his books or generate revenue from his youtube videos.

 

[praise_yeshua]

So I haven't included even the best evidences because it would be summarily dismissed just like every other evidence I've posted.

Geesh. Is that how you actually interact in a debate? Save the best for last?

You don't want your "holy grail" destroyed.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

Geesh. Is that how you actually interact in a debate? Save the best for last?

You don't want your "holy grail" destroyed.

No. People like you have closed minds. Why would I waste the time and effort on people like that who have no love for the Truth?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Who is this "we" you talk about? The West has the Greek. The East has the Aramaic. Its' been that way for 2000 years. Just because you and most of the western Christians have no clue about the 2000 year old Aramaic tradition of the New Testament in no way invalidates it or makes the Greek any better. The Greek primacists want to play "oldest was first" - which is logical. But the 78 AD Aramaic Codex puts that in question. Which is why there is so much animosity expressed by people here (who can't even spend the effort to research it).

Experts in both Greek and Aramaic who are not beholden to a tenured position (of which there are very few) have examined the texts very closely. There are just hundreds of examples internally within the texts that the Greek is a translation. It can be very easily proven. But it must be examined with an open mind. There isn't a single person in this thread that has demonstrated even a smidgen of that kind of attitude. So I haven't included even the best evidences because it would be summarily dismissed just like every other evidence I've posted.

Hey... Did you know that only 13 percent of the DSS were Aramaic?

You would think if what you say is true, there would be MUCH MORE....

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

Aramaic in the NT is conjecture. Nothing more. The Greek word used is a reference to the Hebrew semitic languages that was distinctly different from Aramaic. There are choices to be made. You're make a choice that is least supported by the evidence.



There is ZERO internal evidence to the Scriptures that supports your claim. Zero. Sure, you can find some "nut" that loves to get paid for his books or generate revenue from his youtube videos.

Yup. And here comes the ad hominems. The last resort of people who are triggered.

 

[praise_yeshua]

No. People like you have closed minds. Why would I waste the time and effort on people like that who have no love for the Truth?

Play your best card. Change my mind. I haven't seen anything yet. Just conjecture. I'll keep adding evidence if you like. I can do this for some time. Go for it.

 

[EclipseEventSigns]

Play your best card. Change my mind. I haven't seen anything yet. Just conjecture. I'll keep adding evidence if you like. I can do this for some time. Go for it.

You don't get it. I'm not here to change your mind. Demonstrate to me that you are open to learning something and then there might be a good exchange. I told you before. I'm just not interested in your types of games.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Yup. And here comes the ad hominems. The last resort of people who are triggered.

Triggered? Just the Truth. Many a lie has been sold to Christians that didn't know the evidence themselves. All I care about is Christians knowing evidence. I don't sell books or link to videos to generate revenue. I have freely received, I freely give. I have my entire adult life.

Mat_10:8 freely ye have received, freely give.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You don't get it. I'm not here to change your mind. Demonstrate to me that you are open to learning something and then there might be a good exchange. I told you before. I'm just not interested in your types of games.

I don't know why someone, who has the Truth, doesn't want to change someone's mind?

Granted. You don't have to listen to me but what are you motives if not to change someone's mind?

 

[praise_yeshua]

You don't get it. I'm not here to change your mind. Demonstrate to me that you are open to learning something and then there might be a good exchange. I told you before. I'm just not interested in your types of games.

I'm always open to correct mistakes. I make them.

 

[synergy]

Your statements are not backed by any kind of evidence. The idea that Greek replaced Hebrew among the Jews of the 1st century is not according to historical evidence. The LXX was created in Egypt specifically for the huge library there. No other purpose than that. When it was created the Talmud says that there was much mourning. The idea that the Jews adopted the language of their enemies is absolute hogwash.

The Alexandrian Jews translated the Hebrew OT to Koine Greek NT with "much mourning"? Was there a mourning ceremony when the LXX was unveiled? Was there wailing and gnashing of teeth when the LXX was unveiled? The Alexandrian Jews took on this immense translation project so that in the end that can wail about it? What you're promoting is totally bizarre.

The fact is that the Alexandrian Jews were effectively Hellenized and it became painfully obvious that the Hebrew OT needed to be translated to Greek if the subsequent Jewish generations were to be OT literate. That was the driving force behind the LXX. The driving force was not so that they can wail, mourn, gnash their teeth at the LXX's creation.

 

[Dizerner]

The Alexandrian Jews translated the Hebrew OT to Koine Greek NT with "much mourning"? Was there a mourning ceremony when the LXX was unveiled? Was there wailing and gnashing of teeth when the LXX was unveiled? The Alexandrian Jews took on this immense translation project so that in the end that can wail about it? What you're promoting is totally bizarre.

I take it you are not familiar with the Talmud. The Talmud is really—and I mean really—bizarre. Definitely not trustworthy.

 

[Dizerner]

Y'all just need to get the Passion Translation, he has apparently unlocked the secrets of the Aramaic text:

What's with the Aramaic texts? - Reading the Passion Bible

“By referencing the text written in the very language in which Jesus taught, and then overlaying that with the Greek, we are able to translate the root meanings of the Scriptures in a new, fresh way.” (Brian Simmons) The Passion Translation team claim that: The Aramaic manuscripts are more...

readingthepassionbible.com

 

[synergy]

Y'all just need to get the Passion Translation, he has apparently unlocked the secrets of the Aramaic text:

What's with the Aramaic texts? - Reading the Passion Bible

“By referencing the text written in the very language in which Jesus taught, and then overlaying that with the Greek, we are able to translate the root meanings of the Scriptures in a new, fresh way.” (Brian Simmons) The Passion Translation team claim that: The Aramaic manuscripts are more...

readingthepassionbible.com

This is a quote from your link: "The Peshitta is a translation from Hebrew and Greek manuscripts of the Bible into Syriac Aramaic."

I'll stick with the originals.

 

[Dizerner]

This is a quote from your link: "The Peshitta is a translation from Hebrew and Greek manuscripts of the Bible into Syriac Aramaic."

I'll stick with the originals.

Yes!

If you back-translate to a language 400 years later that does not make it closer to the source!

This is the whole "scam" of the Passion Translation.

 

[synergy]

nt