The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is also the Messiah’s God

[Matthias]

The Messiah is not the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the God of the Messiah.

The God of Jesus of Nazareth isn’t Dagon. There shouldn’t be anything controversial about that.

The God of Jesus of Nazareth isn’t Moloch. There shouldn’t be anything controversial about that.

The God of Jesus isn’t the Trinity. There shouldn’t be anything controversial about that, but occasionally there is.

The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is Yahweh. There shouldn’t be anything controversial about that.

There is no God besides the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. There shouldn’t be anything controversial about that.

There is no God besides Yahweh. There shouldn’t be anything controversial about that.

The God of Jesus of Nazareth is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

The God of Jesus is Yahweh.

The God of Jesus is only one person, the Father. There shouldn’t be anything controversial about that.

There is no God besides the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob for there to be the God of Jesus of Nazareth. There shouldn’t be anything controversial about that.

If the Trinity is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob then the Trinity is the God of Jesus of Nazareth.

Jesus of Nazareth ascended to his God. There shouldn’t be anything controversial about that.

Jesus of Nazareth ascended to Yahweh.

Jesus of Nazareth ascended to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. There is no other God for Jesus of Nazareth to ascend to as there is no God besides the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Yahweh - the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob - is the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Jesus of Nazareth.

 

[Diserner]

The God of Jesus is Yahweh.

Here at least is some agreement.

 

[Matthias]

Here at least is some agreement.

I’m always quick to agree when I can.

There is no God besides Yahweh. So it must be true that the God of Jesus of Nazareth is Yahweh.

Yahweh himself doesn’t have a God. He is the one God.

The Messiah himself has a God. The Messiah himself isn’t Yahweh. The Messiah himself isn’t the one God.

 

[Complete]

'Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
which according to His abundant mercy
hath begotten us again unto a lively hope
by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away,
reserved in heaven for you,
Who are kept by the power of God through faith
unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.'
(1Pe 1:3-5)

Hello @Matthias,

'The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob', was the name by which the children of Israel identified God in covenant relationship: but, 'The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ' is the name by which we who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as our Saviour and Lord, know God today.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Matthias]

'Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
which according to His abundant mercy
hath begotten us again unto a lively hope
by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away,
reserved in heaven for you,
Who are kept by the power of God through faith
unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.'
(1Pe 1:3-5)

Hello @Matthias,

'The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob', was the name by which the children of Israel identified God in covenant relationship: but, 'The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ' is the name by which we who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as our Saviour and Lord, know God today.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob = the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob doesn’t = the Trinity.

Jesus doesn’t have his disciples looking at the Trinity. Jesus has his disciples looking at the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; his God and Father.

“I ascend to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God” (John 20:17) -> I ascend to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and of me and of you.

P.S.

”I ascend to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God” -> I ascend to the one God.

 

[Complete]

Hello @Matthias,

The word 'Trinity' is not a word found in Scripture. It is a divisive term, and so I don't use it. Yet it is true that God is manifested as the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. He was also in Christ Jesus reconciling the world unto Himself, The words therefore that our Lord Jesus Christ spoke, and the works that He performed were of God. Time and again the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are observed in Scripture working together, e.g., :-

In Creation:- (Psalm 33:6)
'By the word of the LORD were the heavens made;
and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.'

The Messiah's Commission:- (Isaiah 48:16)
'Come ye near unto Me, hear ye this;
I have not spoken in secret from the beginning;
from the time that it was, there am I:
and now the Lord GOD, and His Spirit, hath sent Me.'

In Incarnation:- (Luke 1:35)
'And the angel answered and said unto her,
The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee,
and the power of The Highest shall overshadow thee:
therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee
shall be called the Son of God.'

* There are many more like this, as you will know, So we can know, without using divisive terminology, what the truth of God's word says concerning any subject, and discuss them in love.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Matthias]

Hello @Matthias,

The word 'Trinity' is not a word found in Scripture. It is a divisive term, and so I don't use it. Yet it is true that God is manifested as the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. He was also in Christ Jesus reconciling the world unto Himself, The words therefore that our Lord Jesus Christ spoke, and the works that He performed were of God. Time and again the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are observed in Scripture working together, e.g., :-

In Creation:- (Psalm 33:6)
'By the word of the LORD were the heavens made;
and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.'

The Messiah's Commission:- (Isaiah 48:16)
'Come ye near unto Me, hear ye this;
I have not spoken in secret from the beginning;
from the time that it was, there am I:
and now the Lord GOD, and His Spirit, hath sent Me.'

In Incarnation:- (Luke 1:35)
'And the angel answered and said unto her,
The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee,
and the power of The Highest shall overshadow thee:
therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee
shall be called the Son of God.'

* There are many more like this, as you will know, So we can know, without using divisive terminology, what the truth of God's word says concerning any subject, and discuss them in love.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Scripture doesn’t teach us that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is the one God.

Scripture teaches us that Yahweh is the one God.

It is the one God who is the Messiah’s God.

 

[Complete]

Scripture doesn’t teach us that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is the one God.

Scripture teaches us that Yahweh is the one God.

It is the one God who is the Messiah’s God.

Hello @Matthias,

The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, is our God too, who trust in Him for salvation: and He is also our Father in Christ. How wonderful!

Praise God!

 

[Matthias]

Hello @Matthias,

The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, is our God too, and for those who have been born from above, He is also our Father in Christ.

Praise God!

There is no God besides the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I like your point that the Father is in Christ, as there are many who believe that the Father is Christ.

 

[Matthias]

For the trinitarian, the Father alone is not the one God.

For the Messiah, the Father alone is the one God.

 

[Matthias]

“… according to the New Testament witness, in the teaching of Jesus and the Apostles, relative to the monotheism of the Old Testament and Judaism, there had been no element of change whatsoever. Mk. xii, 29 recorded the confirmation of Jesus himself, without any reservation, of the supreme monotheistic confessio fidei of Israelite religion in its complete form.”

(Martin Werner, The Formation of Christian Dogma, p. 241)

Compare this with what Dr. Harold O.J. Brown said and Gregory of Nyssa admitted. Jesus and the Apostles didn’t change the unitary monotheism of Israel. The Church did, centuries later; destroying the Messiah’s Jewish monotheism.

 

[Matthias]

Here’s the crucial question Dr. Brown asks:

“Was the transition from the personal monotheism of Israel to the tripersonal theism of Nicaea a legitimate development of Old Testament revelation?”

Jesus and the Apostles didn’t make that transition. The Church gradually did, after the Apostles were deceased.

Was it legitimate?

Dr. Brown, an excellent trinitarian scholar, assures us that it was.

I didn’t make the trip from Jerusalem to Nicaea. My theology didn’t transition from unitarianism to trinitarianism. My theology is the unitary monotheism of Israel, of Jesus, and of the Apostles.

My answer to Dr. Brown’s pointed question is that it wasn’t legitimate. That, of course, places me outside the pale of orthodoxy. That’s alright. I’m in excellent company.

 

[Matthias]

I suppose this would be an appropriate place to make known to readers of this thread who are unacquainted with me that I began my spiritual life in Nicaea.* I made the trip from Nicaea to Jerusalem. I travelled the same road, but went in the opposite direction. I was raised trinitarian. My theology has, in fact, transitioned: from trinitarianism to unitarianism.

* Nicaea isn’t technically correct, but I understand what Dr. Brown is saying. The Council of Nicaea AD 325 didn’t get the job done. The Council of Constantinople in AD 381 was necessary, in part, to clarify the meaning of the Council of Nicaea.

 

[Matthias]

I hadn’t planned on it but, thinking about the Council of Constantinople in AD 381, I’m going to do an excursus.

Gregory of Nazianzus, writing in AD 380, makes a comment in Oration 31 concerning what the thinking in the Church was just prior the Council which occurred the following year. The reader will see that, at this late date, there was a wide variety of views about the Holy Spirit in Church leadership. Gregory is ticked off about it.

“But of the wise men amongst ourselves, some have conceived of him as an Activity, some as a Creature, some as God, and some have been uncertain which to call Him, out of reverence for Scripture, they say, as though it did not make the matter clear either way. And therefore they neither worship Him nor treat Him with dishonour, but take a neutral position, or rather a very miserable one, with respect to Him.”

CHURCH FATHERS: Fifth Theological Oration (Oration 31) (Gregory Nazianzen)

Featuring the Church Fathers, Catholic Encyclopedia, Summa Theologica and more.

www.newadvent.org

 

[Matthias]

Got to have a program to keep our Gregorys straight.

Gregory of Nazianzus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I don’t know about now but, back in the days when I was a High School student, Catholic schools were very good about educating students on the Church Fathers. (I suspect they still are; I hope they are.) I didn’t attend a Catholic High School (my wife did, and still recalls what she learned about the Church Fathers well) but I wish I had. Catholics have an advantage over Protestants in this subject, if they take it seriously and learn their lessons well.

Had someone asked me when I was a High School student who Gregory of Nazianzus was, I wouldn’t have had the faintest idea. Every trinitarian should be familiar with him. I meet very few Protestants who are; most don’t want to know.