The fake OJB (Orthodox Jewish Bible)

[praise_yeshua]

Like what.
You are the pretender here @praise_yeshua.

The evidence is here. They can read your comments. You've been very inconsistent here. You tend to believe whatever you find someone else saying.

I'm glad you're back. I don't want to drive you away. I'm trying to help you. Sometimes that is a painful process. You're too comfortable in what you see yourself to be.

Just admit you get angry with me. I have no animosity at all toward you. You believe what you read from those you trust. I do not. I do not trust anyone with things are so important as what I believe relative to Jesus Christ.

I will learn of Him myself. I will know Him beyond the words of others alone. I will vet Him. Everything I've found in Jesus Christ is altogether Glorious to me. He is the love of my life and I'm nothing but a beggar.

 

[JoshebB]

In various areas. Yes. As I whole, it doesn't exist anywhere apart from me.

Then we (everyone else in all the forums) are to understand every single post you post as a post couched in a singular theology that, as a whole, no one else shares.

Is that correct?

 

[Johann]

You tend to believe whatever you find someone else saying.

Such as @praise_yeshua? We are Bereans, right?

J.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Then we (everyone else in all the forums) are to understand every single post you post as a post couched in a singular theology that, as a whole, no one else shares.

Is that correct?

No. Why are you ignoring the remainder of what I stated. I "figured" you weren't being sincere. You're just looking for some reason to criticize me. Do you believe you're the only one that has ever tried to charge me with being a "lone wolf"? I first heard that when I was a child.

You have your own theology yourself. You're not 100 percent aligned with any other "singular theology". What I believe is consistent with historical Christianity as taught by the prophets and apostles. It aligns with what Jesus Christ said about Himself.

You should rightfully recognize that we do not have enough information from these sources to form a complete systematic theology. If we did, then there would NOT be any challenges to the narrative. We would just reference what has already been given and move on. Even John witnessed that we don't have everything that was taught by Jesus Christ.

Joh 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

You make your own choices. I do mine. If someone else is making choices for you, then I'd like to talk to them instead of you.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Such as @praise_yeshua? We are Bereans, right?

J.

Bereans are individuals. I don't see your voice. I never have. I see you endlessly repeat others. I push you to find your own voice. I haven't seen it yet.

 

[Johann]

I appreciate the history.

In comparing verse to verse I have yet to find any that are is disagreement with the more acceptable Translations

I also almost always check out the Hebrew and Greek Interlinear... and the Peshitta.

If there are not overt disagreements I find them acceptable.

It is basically when things are changed. Words use to say something that seeming contradict that I get annoyed. Such as changing I am He to I an the one.

The NWT is one of those.....

Same here-I've checked out various translations and the Septuagint (LXX). I haven’t read the Complete Jewish Bible (CJB), but I find the Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB) acceptable. The issue is, when we study in this way, we get labeled as Messianics, by @praise_yeshua which I find pretty unsettling. We’re all adults here, and, honestly, many don’t study at all. @MTMattie

The next argument would be that the Peshitta is somehow flawed. But like you, I consult interlinear texts and don’t rely on online sources for everything.

It’s almost amusing to hear people claim the Masoretic Text (MT) has errors-so what are we left with, the Latin Vulgate? Just thinking out loud, brother.

J.

 

[Johann]

Bereans are individuals. I don't see your voice. I never have. I see you endlessly repeat others. I push you to find your own voice. I haven't seen it yet.

Got it, @praise_yeshua. You are here to philosophize and Philosophy isn’t really my strong suit-bring the Scriptures, and we can discuss those directly.

J.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Same here-I've checked out various translations and the Septuagint (LXX). I haven’t read the Complete Jewish Bible (CJB), but I find the Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB) acceptable. The issue is, when we study in this way, we get labeled as Messianics, by @praise_yeshua which I find pretty unsettling. We’re all adults here, and, honestly, many don’t study at all. @MTMattie

The next argument would be that the Peshitta is somehow flawed. But like you, I consult interlinear texts and don’t rely on online sources for everything.

It’s almost amusing to hear people claim the Masoretic Text (MT) has errors-so what are we left with, the Latin Vulgate? Just thinking out loud, brother.

J.

There is no Peshitta. Just Aramaic manuscripts. There have been varying manuscript traditions that have been referenced as the "Peshitta". Again. Your knowledge of this is only "skin deep".

Don't pretend you're doing anything but repeating the first or second reference you find. You keep proving this fact in every post you make. You're not alone. Most people do the same things.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Got it, @praise_yeshua. You are here to philosophize and Philosophy isn’t really my strong suit-bring the Scriptures, and we can discuss those directly.

J.

No. I'm not. I here to discuss facts relative to our existence, The Scriptures, and how they all fit together. You're losing these arguments. Stick around. It will be good for you to lose an argument. We learn from losing.

 

[Johann]

There is no Peshitta. Just Aramaic manuscripts. There have been varying manuscript traditions that have been referenced as the "Peshitta". Again. Your knowledge of this is only "skin deep".

Don't pretend you're doing anything but repeating the first or second reference you find. You keep proving this fact in every post you make. You're not alone. Most people do the same things.

If I may ask, what is your primary study Bible @praise_yeshua?

J.

 

[Johann]

No. I'm not. I here to discuss facts relative to our existence, The Scriptures, and how they all fit together. You're losing these arguments. Stick around. It will be good for you to lose an argument. We learn from losing.

Which Scriptures?

J.

 

[praise_yeshua]

If I may ask, which is your primary study Bible @praise_yeshua?

J.

I study manuscripts. Bibles are words choices from others. I feel no obligation to accept the word choices of any man.

I have many many different "Bibles". I review many of them at any given time. At times I create my own translations. I've started working on my own complete translation from various manuscripts. However, I don't have time anymore to do everything at the same time.

Which is why I'm always in a hurry. I have too many responsibilities with too few people to assist me. I've struggled with it for years. Theology is my passion. It is the primary source of my enjoyment. I find meaning in debating/arguing theology. It is more meaningful in my life at times than it probably should be. My wife even gets angry with me because I spend so much time doing it. Theology is always on my mind.

Now, I don't like talking about myself. God will speak of me one day. That will matter. I don't believe myself to be superior to anyone. I promote Jesus Christ as the head of all men. That is the center of my theology.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Which Scriptures?

J.

All historical manuscripts are evidence. The MT was reconstructed. Even the language of the MT represents a new "form" of Hebrew. Don't believe everything you read. It was more than just "accents" representing vocalizations. Choices between varying words and manuscripts were made.

Your preference in the MT is nothing more than a preference. The MT isn't authorative at all. In fact, it is part of the problem with many beliefs.

 

[Johann]

All historical manuscripts are evidence. The MT was reconstructed. Even the language of the MT represents a new "form" of Hebrew. Don't believe everything you believe. It was more than just "accents" representing vocalizations. Choices between varying words and manuscripts were made.

Your preference in the MT is nothing more than a preference. The MT isn't authorative at all. In fact, it is part of the problem with many beliefs.

Seems like you take issue with our 'Bibles,' seeing them as merely human words—correct? #32

So, when I say that Scripture is God-breathed, how would you respond to that?

J.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Seems like you take issue with our 'Bibles,' seeing them as merely human words—correct? #32

So, when I say that Scripture is God-breathed, how would you respond to that?

J.

You're referencing inspiration. It is why I mentioned inspiration earlier.

The MT wasn't inspired. It may contain a derivative form of what was actually inspired but it wasn't "inspired" itself. I haven't meet anyone in a very long time that is "up for" those types of conversations. If you want to "dig" into it. I will.

My position is..... Inspiration is dictation. All manuscripts and ultimately "collections/bibles" contain the following.

1. Words that equal = Thus says the Lord. Or the very word choices of God.
2. Word choices that come from the author of the manuscript themselves (example. Matthew contains words from the author that are not Inspired)
3. Words from translators.

There are subcategories but this is my list of what you're referencing when you use the word "Scriptures". To me, Inspiration is dictation alone.

 

[Johann]

You're referencing inspiration. It is why I mentioned inspiration earlier.

The MT wasn't inspired. It may contain a derivative form of what was actually inspired but it wasn't "inspired" itself. I haven't meet anyone in a very long time that is "up for" those types of conversations. If you want to "dig" into it. I will.

My position is..... Inspiration is dictation. All manuscripts and ultimately "collections/bibles" contain the following.

1. Words that equal = Thus says the Lord. Or the very word choices of God.
2. Word choices that come from the author of the manuscript themselves (example. Matthew contains words from the author that are not Inspired)
3. Words from translators.

There are subcategories but this is my list of what you're referencing when you use the word "Scriptures". To me, Inspiration is dictation alone.

Interesting-can you give me some examples?

Are Jesus' words considered inspired? And what about Paul’s epistles?

Walk me through your perspective on this.

J.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Interesting-can you give me some examples?

Are Jesus' words considered inspired? And what about Paul’s epistles?

Walk me through your perspective on this.

J.

I've answered. Share your own base perspective like I have first. I'll give an example afterwards.

 

[MTMattie]

Find what Jesus read in Luke 4 from the "Scroll" in your bible of choice. Go for it. I'll wait.

And?

 

[praise_yeshua]

And?

You can find it. It just isn't in your preferred sources. You should change and embrace what Jesus read from.

Do you not care about what Jesus read from? I sure do. It is why I changed my mind a long time ago.

 

[MTMattie]

The issue is, when we study in this way, we get labeled as Messianics, by @praise_yeshua which I find pretty unsettling.

J.

What I find unsettling is why the term messianic is being disparaged. Almost as if they do not believe any Jew has a right to access to Jesus.