The fake OJB (Orthodox Jewish Bible)

[praise_yeshua]

(Ask AI about "Messianic Judaism". You'll be surprise just how wrong most every AI is about this subject)

Messianic Judaism is made up of Christians that struggle with unbelief in Christianity. Yes. They generally accept Christ as we know Him in Christianity but they struggle with their roots found in unbelief relative to Judaism.

Contrary to popular belief. Judaism has never consisted of a single belief system or oral tradition. It shows in the extant witnesses we have today. Faith was standardized in the times of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Yet, there were a "mixed multitude" that came out of Egypt oppression. The religious teachings of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were twisted into various "sects" each having their own beliefs and oral tradition. Moses helped to standardize these belief but it wasn't a perfect situation. Israel pulled back from embracing God at Mount Sinai. Their fearfulness rooted in the traditions of their fathers became "a chain of oppression" around their "necks". The same is true of time of Christ. Like Moses, Christ came from outside their own cults. Pharisees and Sadducees along with many varying teachers rejected Christ like they rejected Moses. There has been a "blending" of teachings that has ultimately come about in producing Messianic Judaism.

The same is true of Gentiles. We've all had people in our lives that taught us error "in the name of God". Most all men are equally wrong. There is no historically superior culture/individual left on this planet that can rightfully claim authority over any individual. There is only One exception. Jesus Christ.

Phillip Goble is the sole author of the the OJB. It is important to know the "world view" and theology of any individual producing their own translation of the extant Biblical references. Those individuals should be held to the standard of the extant witnesses themselves.

The sole stated goal of the OJB is to introduce "Yiddish and Hasidic cultural expressions to the Messianic Bible"

Yiddish has its origins in German.

Hasidic has its origins in Baal Shem Tov. A Jewish Mystic. A supposed "faith healer". Which corresponds with Goble's associate with the "Assemblies of God".

Baggage...... in this translation is clear.

What should we do? Should we blindly accept the work of Phillip Goble or do our own work to know the Truth free of prejudice?

Phillip Goble = https://ag.org/church?g=d0cb5a6a-e3db-45f2-906b-5e56d437bee8&d=False

 

[JoshebB]

Are you a Messianic Jew, or worship in a Messianic Jewish congregation?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Are you a Messianic Jew, or worship in a Messianic Jewish congregation?

No. However, I know them well. It is my belief that you must know Judaism is you're going to understand how Christ embraced "His own" both in the wilderness and in the captivity.

Consider the fact that Israel had returned the bondage of Egypt in the Advent of our Lord.

Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

I was once a Dispensationalist. I was a teenager and had good friends that influenced such choices. I embrace learning Messianic Judaism.

 

[JoshebB]

No.

Appreciate knowing that.

I was once a Dispensationalist.

With respect, @praise_yeshua, you may not be as distant from that point of view as you think. Many of your posts evidence Dispensationalist thought, precepts, and practice.

I embrace learning Messianic Judaism.

Learning it is one thing. Teaching it is another. One of the problems with Messianic Judaism, as I am sure you have read me post many times, is that we are Christians, not Jews and Messianic Judaism routinely Judaizes Christianity in ways scripture makes clear are unacceptable. This is particularly true of Messianic Judaism's tendency toward modern Zionism and all the shared eschatological content with Dispensationalism.


Not that the source of something is automatically a reason to eschew it, but Messianic Judaism was started in the 1960s by a Baptist minister attempting to meet the needs of Jewish converts to Christ in his locale. It has nothing to do with the precedent described in early Acts. It's a wholly modern invention. I enjoyed learning Messianic Judaism and worshipping with them in their synagogues but there are very real and important problems in both the thinking, doctrine, and practice of that model. Sadly, they could keep a lot of their content if they better discriminated the parts of Judaization and discarded them.



That being said, I share your concerns about the AI generated Bible, and any and all AI generated Bible that might ever exist in the future. I'll take the slow, hard, sometimes faulty work of prayerfully diligent indwelt believers over AI any day.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Appreciate knowing that.

With respect, @praise_yeshua, you may not be as distant from that point of view as you think. Many of your posts evidence Dispensationalist thought, precepts, and practice.

I have my own Systematic Theology. To those who've known me in the past, I'm a entirely different theologian than I was then. I don't share everything I believe upfront" in a conversation. I argue points. I believe most false doctrine is the product of poor methods and basic mistakes made with poor systematic skills. Thoughts are predicated upon basic facts. One thought upon another thought. I know you know this. Just "talking out loud".

Learning it is one thing. Teaching it is another. One of the problems with Messianic Judaism, as I am sure you have read me post many times, is that we are Christians, not Jews and Messianic Judaism routinely Judaizes Christianity in ways scripture makes clear are unacceptable. This is particularly true of Messianic Judaism's tendency toward modern Zionism and all the shared eschatological content with Dispensationalism.

I agree with you completely here.

Not that the source of something is automatically a reason to eschew it, but Messianic Judaism was started in the 1960s by a Baptist minister attempting to meet the needs of Jewish converts to Christ in his locale. It has nothing to do with the precedent described in early Acts. It's a wholly modern invention. I enjoyed learning Messianic Judaism and worshipping with them in their synagogues but there are very real and important problems in both the thinking, doctrine, and practice of that model. Sadly, they could keep a lot of their content if they better discriminated the parts of Judaization and discarded them.

I agree with you completely again.

That being said, I share your concerns about the AI generated Bible, and any and all AI generated Bible that might ever exist in the future. I'll take the slow, hard, sometimes faulty work of prayerfully diligent indwelt believers over AI any day.

For the most part, I can agree with this. I do believe that we are often too convinced by our own conscience that we are right. The most difficult task associated with knowing God is understanding where we are and where God begins. Our duty is to know God. Too many times we are too focused upon knowing ourselves. Our identity is in Christ. A new creation/creature. That is unknown to us except through trials and tribulation. We need to find the end of ourselves. I want to know where I'm wrong. There are times I've thought I was right and God was with me..... only to discover I was dead wrong the entire time.

There is a sense of "superiority" associated with Messianic Judaism that I believe can be traced to early Christianity. What you say is true about Baptist Dispensationalism roots in the current movement.

Take the statement "to the Jew first". This a statement is a declaration relative to order. Not rank. Many people see "rank" in the "to the Jew first". This feeds egos and promotes separation. My penny.

 

[JoshebB]

I have my own Systematic Theology.

Do others share your theology?

 

[JoshebB]

For the most part, I can agree with this. I do believe that we are often too convinced by our own conscience that we are right. The most difficult task associated with knowing God is understanding where we are and where God begins. Our duty is to know God. Too many times we are too focused upon knowing ourselves. Our identity is in Christ. A new creation/creature. That is unknown to us except through trials and tribulation. We need to find the end of ourselves. I want to know where I'm wrong. There are times I've thought I was right and God was with me..... only to discover I was dead wrong the entire time.

There is a sense of "superiority" associated with Messianic Judaism that I believe can be traced to early Christianity. What you say is true about Baptist Dispensationalism roots in the current movement.

Take the statement "to the Jew first". This a statement is a declaration relative to order. Not rank. Many people see "rank" in the "to the Jew first". This feeds egos and promotes separation. My penny.

What is the specified subject of this op?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Do others share your theology?

In various areas. Yes. As I whole, it doesn't exist anywhere apart from me.

 

[praise_yeshua]

What is the specified subject of this op?

I started it because of @Johann appeals to the OJB edition. To me, he is obviously "Messianic". Though I believe he might have came to the position from non traditional sources.

 

[MTMattie]

I started it because of @Johann appeals to the OJB edition. To me, he is obviously "Messianic". Though I believe he might have came to the position from non traditional sources.

I often do myself and cannot be farther from a Messianic Jew.

 

[Johann]

I started it because of @Johann appeals to the OJB edition. To me, he is obviously "Messianic". Though I believe he might have came to the position from non traditional sources.

Wrong @praise_yeshua.

Joh 3:16 For Hashem so had ahavah (agape) for the Olam Hazeh that Hashem gave the matanah (gift) [Isa 9:5 (6)] of Hashem’s Ben Yechid [Gn 22:12; Prov 30:4; 8:30 so that whosoever has emunah in him may not be ne’evad (lost, perish, be ruined with destruction), but find Chayyei Olam [Daniel 12:2].

J.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I often do myself and cannot be farther from a Messianic Jew.

I didn't believe you're Jewish.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Wrong @praise_yeshua.

Joh 3:16 For Hashem so had ahavah (agape) for the Olam Hazeh that Hashem gave the matanah (gift) [Isa 9:5 (6)] of Hashem’s Ben Yechid [Gn 22:12; Prov 30:4; 8:30 so that whosoever has emunah in him may not be ne’evad (lost, perish, be ruined with destruction), but find Chayyei Olam [Daniel 12:2].

J.

You always deny what you do in front of everyone.

 

[Johann]

You always deny what you do in front of everyone.

Like what.

You are the pretender here @praise_yeshua.


Proverbs 16:28 - “A perverse person stirs up conflict, and a gossip separates close friends.”

This verse points out that gossip can destroy relationships and create unnecessary conflict, highlighting its divisive nature.
Proverbs 11:13 - “A gossip betrays a confidence, but a trustworthy person keeps a secret.”

Here, the contrast between a gossip and a trustworthy person shows that gossiping breaks trust and damages a person's reputation.
Proverbs 18:8 - “The words of a gossip are like choice morsels; they go down to the inmost parts.”

This verse emphasizes the enticing nature of gossip, suggesting that it can be deeply impactful, affecting a person’s mind and spirit.
James 1:26 - “Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless.”

James warns that uncontrolled speech, including gossip, undermines one’s faith, challenging believers to be careful in their words.
Leviticus 19:16 - “Do not go about spreading slander among your people. Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor’s life. I am the Lord.”

This command warns against spreading harmful information or slander, associating it with endangering others and displeasing God.
Ephesians 4:29 - “Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.”

Paul encourages believers to speak words that build others up rather than engage in harmful talk, aligning one’s speech with encouragement rather than gossip.
Proverbs 20:19 - “A gossip betrays a confidence; so avoid anyone who talks too much.”

This verse advises distancing oneself from those who gossip, recognizing that they are likely to betray trust.
James 4:11 - “Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister or judges them speaks against the law and judges it.”

James warns against slandering others, which often involves gossip, and highlights that judging others with our words goes against God’s law of love.
Matthew 12:36 - “But I tell you that everyone will have to give account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have spoken.”

Jesus reminds us of the seriousness of our words, including gossip, teaching that we are accountable for everything we say.
Psalm 34:13 - “Keep your tongue from evil and your lips from telling lies.”

This Psalm emphasizes the importance of refraining from evil speech, which includes gossip, and maintaining integrity in our words.

J.

 

[MTMattie]

I didn't believe you're Jewish.

YOU can not read,

I wrote... Reply 10... " I often do myself and cannot be farther from a Messianic Jew.
But Jesus was. AND fact is HE did say... before we gentiles entered into the picture....in Matt 15:25 Nasb95 But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
He taught in the synagogues, he celebrated their feast and celebrations, he even was eating a Seder dinner before he gave his life for us.
That means that I will always read the Complete Jewish Bible as well as the Tanakh...or Torah (Teaching), Nevi'im (Prophets), and Ketuvim (Writings), as time will move me.

And used to listen on occasion to Zola Levitt and still do watch Jonathan Cahn, and read his books. Paradigm was a page turned for me.... among others.

As to myself... I am about as protestant as they come.... ) For generations when an ancestor who use to be a vicar in the church of England left over a baptism dispute, went to Scotland, ended up in New England, then New York and eventually in Virginia where he built the church he pastored.. and it has been ingrained in the family all our lives that
this is the church.... be it right or wrong... And there is some of both.

 

[Johann]

YOU can not read,

I wrote... Reply 10... " I often do myself and cannot be farther from a Messianic Jew.
But Jesus was. AND fact is HE did say... before we gentiles entered into the picture....in Matt 15:25 Nasb95 But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
He taught in the synagogues, he celebrated their feast and celebrations, he even was eating a Seder dinner before he gave his life for us.
That means that I will always read the Complete Jewish Bible as well as the Tanakh...or Torah (Teaching), Nevi'im (Prophets), and Ketuvim (Writings), as time will move me.

And used to listen on occasion to Zola Levitt and still do watch Jonathan Cahn, and read his books. Paradigm was a page turned for me.... among others.

As to myself... I am about as protestant as they come.... ) For generations when an ancestor who use to be a vicar in the church of England left over a baptism dispute, went to Scotland, ended up in New England, then New York and eventually in Virginia where he built the church he pastored.. and it has been ingrained in the family all our lives that
this is the church.... be it right or wrong... And there is some of both.

The Complete Jewish Bible (CJB) was written by Dr. David H. Stern, a Messianic Jewish scholar, theologian, and author. Dr. Stern, who has a background in both Judaism and Christianity, created this translation to bridge cultural and linguistic gaps between traditional Jewish and Christian communities.

Key Aspects of the Complete Jewish Bible:
Jewish Roots and Context - Dr. Stern aimed to provide a translation that respects the Jewish cultural and historical context of both the Old and New Testaments, preserving the Hebraic nuances often lost in English translations. For example, Hebrew names and terms, such as "Yeshua" for Jesus and "Shabbat" for Sabbath, are retained, helping readers connect with the Jewish heritage of the Scriptures.

Messianic Perspective - The CJB is intended to serve the Messianic Jewish community, which sees Jesus (Yeshua) as the Messiah while maintaining Jewish traditions. Dr. Stern's translation reflects this unique perspective, emphasizing how the Tanakh (Old Testament) and B'rit Hadashah (New Testament) together form a unified text that highlights the continuity of Jewish and Christian beliefs.

Translation Approach - Rather than a word-for-word or thought-for-thought translation, the CJB uses a hybrid approach that balances accuracy and readability while reflecting a Jewish cultural perspective. Dr. Stern also authored the Jewish New Testament Commentary, which complements the CJB by providing explanations of New Testament passages from a Messianic Jewish viewpoint.

Dr. David H. Stern’s work in the Complete Jewish Bible has been widely embraced among Messianic Jews and Christians who seek to deepen their understanding of the Jewish roots of Christianity.

The same with Goble-intending to serve the Jewish community @MTMattie.

J.

 

[MTMattie]

The Complete Jewish Bible (CJB) was written by Dr. David H. Stern, a Messianic Jewish scholar, theologian, and author. Dr. Stern, who has a background in both Judaism and Christianity, created this translation to bridge cultural and linguistic gaps between traditional Jewish and Christian communities.

Key Aspects of the Complete Jewish Bible:
Jewish Roots and Context - Dr. Stern aimed to provide a translation that respects the Jewish cultural and historical context of both the Old and New Testaments, preserving the Hebraic nuances often lost in English translations. For example, Hebrew names and terms, such as "Yeshua" for Jesus and "Shabbat" for Sabbath, are retained, helping readers connect with the Jewish heritage of the Scriptures.

Messianic Perspective - The CJB is intended to serve the Messianic Jewish community, which sees Jesus (Yeshua) as the Messiah while maintaining Jewish traditions. Dr. Stern's translation reflects this unique perspective, emphasizing how the Tanakh (Old Testament) and B'rit Hadashah (New Testament) together form a unified text that highlights the continuity of Jewish and Christian beliefs.

Translation Approach - Rather than a word-for-word or thought-for-thought translation, the CJB uses a hybrid approach that balances accuracy and readability while reflecting a Jewish cultural perspective. Dr. Stern also authored the Jewish New Testament Commentary, which complements the CJB by providing explanations of New Testament passages from a Messianic Jewish viewpoint.

Dr. David H. Stern’s work in the Complete Jewish Bible has been widely embraced among Messianic Jews and Christians who seek to deepen their understanding of the Jewish roots of Christianity.

The same with Goble-intending to serve the Jewish community @MTMattie.

J.

I appreciate the history.

In comparing verse to verse I have yet to find any that are is disagreement with the more acceptable Translations

I also almost always check out the Hebrew and Greek Interlinear... and the Peshitta.

If there are not overt disagreements I find them acceptable.

It is basically when things are changed. Words use to say something that seeming contradict that I get annoyed. Such as changing I am He to I an the one.

The NWT is one of those.....

 

[praise_yeshua]

YOU can not read,

I can read just fine. You have a problem with comprehension.

I wrote... Reply 10... " I often do myself and cannot be farther from a Messianic Jew.

No need to repeat yourself. I read it the first time. I responded to it.

But Jesus was. AND fact is HE did say... before we gentiles entered into the picture....in Matt 15:25 Nasb95 But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

I see now. You're one of the reasons I started this thread. You're a Judaizer that believes Jews are superior to Gentiles.

You need to read the entire narrative. Jesus answered her prayer.

Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

Ruth was a Gentile. A Moabite. Contrary to the law, Boaz married Ruth. Jesus was both Jew and Gentile. A Son of Eve. Jesus is referenced as the second Adam. Not the second Abraham.

He taught in the synagogues, he celebrated their feast and celebrations, he even was eating a Seder dinner before he gave his life for us.
That means that I will always read the Complete Jewish Bible as well as the Tanakh...or Torah (Teaching), Nevi'im (Prophets), and Ketuvim (Writings), as time will move me.

The Complete Jewish Bible is different than than the OJB. Goble introduced languages outside of Hebrew into his work. You should abandon your inconsistent position. A double minded man is what???? Unstable....

Either way, do what you want. You don't answer to me. However, don't divorce yourself from reality. It is very important that you see things for what they are. I can't force you to do this. I will argue with you about it. You need to change. I can tell you why you need to change.

And used to listen on occasion to Zola Levitt and still do watch Jonathan Cahn, and read his books. Paradigm was a page turned for me.... among others.

Wow. Zola Levitt. Be his disciple. I will honor Jesus Christ.

As to myself... I am about as protestant as they come.... ) For generations when an ancestor who use to be a vicar in the church of England left over a baptism dispute, went to Scotland, ended up in New England, then New York and eventually in Virginia where he built the church he pastored.. and it has been ingrained in the family all our lives that
this is the church.... be it right or wrong... And there is some of both.

I come from a line of English non-conformists. However, like all men, my family is full of sinners not worthy of mentioning. Contrary to what you believe about the superiority of Jews, all men are now the same. We are all products of lesser men. The only thing that changes this is the man Jesus Christ. I will praise Him. Not you. Not your family. Not my family. Not any other man. Him alone.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I appreciate the history.

In comparing verse to verse I have yet to find any that are is disagreement with the more acceptable Translations

I also almost always check out the Hebrew and Greek Interlinear... and the Peshitta.

If there are not overt disagreements I find them acceptable.

It is basically when things are changed. Words use to say something that seeming contradict that I get annoyed. Such as changing I am He to I an the one.

The NWT is one of those.....

Find what Jesus read in Luke 4 from the "Scroll" in your bible of choice. Go for it. I'll wait.

 

[praise_yeshua]

I appreciate the history.

In comparing verse to verse I have yet to find any that are is disagreement with the more acceptable Translations

I also almost always check out the Hebrew and Greek Interlinear... and the Peshitta.

If there are not overt disagreements I find them acceptable.

It is basically when things are changed. Words use to say something that seeming contradict that I get annoyed. Such as changing I am He to I an the one.

The NWT is one of those.....

You don't have the right source. I can give you dozens of verses that are found in the NT that do not match any verse from the MT.