The early church fathers were important to us for four reasons:

[Diserner]

the development and provenance of the 'platonic forms' are shown in both rg vedas and egyptian hieroglyphs and in Greek philosophy. That development is NOT pretty and yes those texts mention God and what they think of Him. However, going into that is a topic unto itself and would take this afield, plus opening to the concept of 'other ancient texts'. When in fact theologians has been relying on those 'other texts' in the form of Greek terms and methods and questions... since Medieval times.

I have a friend who was wanting to get into Plato and Aristotle, I strongly recommended he stay away.

I do have trouble seeing some of your connections as they seem somewhat abstract.

 

[e v e]

A pope who accepted the inspiration of the OT based his division on Marcion?

I really find that hard to believe.

I forgot his name but will find it. The topic of the Marcionite division of OT and NT is mentioned in the wiki link I just posted but I don't know if the pope's name is also listed.

 

[e v e]

I have a friend who was wanting to get into Plato and Aristotle, I strongly recommended he stay away.

I do have trouble seeing some of your connections as they seem somewhat abstract.

Good idea regarding your friend.

I know but a problem I've had is that I was very smeared on the last forum and therefore, anything I say became attached to the labels. What I wanted was a sincere conversation back and forth, to clarify, rather than the jump that happened on that forum, to a label. it happened early on, and I am partly to blame in some respects but still it was not charitable or the best way to deal with things, imo.

 

[civic]

I think it's for the best.

Enjoyed our discussions.

Same here and I have needed breaks myself many times on the old forum most of us were at battling every day. It can wear on a person. Forums are not easy to stick it out on over time. We have tried to make it different here and we don’t want to ban anyone. If someone wants to leave it’s up to them and we don’t want to have to make anyone leave. I think we overall are really patience and tolerate allot compared to other places.

I know this gets old saying this all the time but it’s true. All we ask is the simple “ Golden Rule” to be practiced. That solves so many things. And I still catch myself editing a post before sending it to make sure I’m practicing it myself.

 

[Diserner]

Good idea regarding your friend.

I know but a problem I've had is that I was very smeared on the last forum and therefore, anything I say became attached to the labels. What I wanted was a sincere conversation back and forth, to clarify, rather than the jump that happened on that forum, to a label. it happened early on, and I am partly to blame in some respects but still it was not charitable or the best way to deal with things, imo.

Well we all make mistakes, I've made plenty. Hopefully we can forgive and move on.

Perhaps you were thinking of Pope Damasus I, his name came up with the canon.

 

[e v e]

I will try to find that pope's name later. Of course the two were already 'divided' informally before that was made into a tradition.

 

[e v e]

Well we all make mistakes, I've made plenty. Hopefully we can forgive and move on.

Perhaps you were thinking of Pope Damasus I, his name came up with the canon.

Yes, I think that must be it. Melito did see them also separately but on different basis I think, and not as a rigid line..

 

[civic]

Good idea regarding your friend.

I know but a problem I've had is that I was very smeared on the last forum and therefore, anything I say became attached to the labels. What I wanted was a sincere conversation back and forth, to clarify, rather than the jump that happened on that forum, to a label. it happened early on, and I am partly to blame in some respects but still it was not charitable or the best way to deal with things, imo.

I'm hoping things are better here for you. Its hard sometimes to be all things to all people and try and make eveyone happy on a medium like an online forum. You can please some of the people some of the times but not all of the people all of the times. Just look at the church in America. If you don't like something said from the pulpit many people will leave just because they don't agree with it. There are so many places and choices people have to go to a church or an online forum to spend their time. Its no easy task on this side of the fence.

I always try and put myself in someone else's shoes and try and see things from their perspective before making any decisions and try to assess it as unbiased and objectively as I can even when we disagree theologically like I would with oneness or unitarians. I must not favor trinitarians over them in this medium since technically its my forum ( Admins too) but I'm the one interacting most of the time on a daily basis with everyone.

So its much different for me now then it was on other forums with these types of responsibilities. I think I have become a better person for that, it has not changed me doctrinally at all but in the way I treat people. I have to be fair with everyone not just my fellow trinitarians.

hoe this helps !!!

 

[synergy]

they mostly corrupted everything...

Almost all Latin church fathers did that, especially Augustine. Not so much the Greek church fathers. For example, Athanasius of Alexandria saved us from Arianism. The following fathers saved us from thousands of heresies by explaining the hypostatic union of Christ: Basil the Great of Caesarea, Gregory of Nyssa, and Gregory of Nazianzus. There are another dozen fathers that I trust implicitly because they have never steered me away from the Bible.

I must say that oftentimes they are a hard read. They will focus on the task at hand, dispelling this heresy or this other heresy, so you have to read them in that context. So you cannot automatically use their writings to dispell the heresy you're addressing at that moment. You need to be careful about that.

 

[civic]

Almost all Latin church fathers did that, especially Augustine. Not so much the Greek church fathers. For example, Athanasius of Alexandria saved us from Arianism. The following fathers saved us from thousands of heresies by explaining the hypostatic union of Christ: Basil the Great of Caesarea, Gregory of Nyssa, and Gregory of Nazianzus. There are another dozen fathers that I trust implicitly because they have never steered me away from the Bible.

I must say that oftentimes they are a hard read. They will focus on the task at hand, dispelling this heresy or this other heresy, so you have to read them in that context. So you cannot automatically use their writings to dispell the heresy you're addressing at that moment. You need to be careful about that.

ditto

 

[e v e]

I'm hoping things are better here for you. Its hard sometimes to be all things to all people and try and make eveyone happy on a medium like an online forum. You can please some of the people some of the times but not all of the people all of the times. Just look at the church in America. If you don't like something said from the pulpit many people will leave just because they don't agree with it. There are so many places and choices people have to go to a church or an online forum to spend their time. Its no easy task on this side of the fence.

I always try and put myself in someone else's shoes and try and see things from their perspective before making any decisions and try to assess it as unbiased and objectively as I can even when we disagree theologically like I would with oneness or unitarians. I must not favor trinitarians over them in this medium since technically its my forum ( Admins too) but I'm the one interacting most of the time on a daily basis with everyone.

So its much different for me now then it was on other forums with these types of responsibilities. I think I have become a better person for that, it has not changed me doctrinally at all but in the way I treat people. I have to be fair with everyone not just my fellow trinitarians.

hoe this helps !!!

Thank you.


i would say I see them as 3 in the Godhead...

but I view Christ and God's Spirit as God's hands = attributes of God (cf Irenaeus). Not as a quality as
most people reduce it to, but as Beings of the Godhead....

they are God... and God is one. And, anything that has reality
in His Realm has to come from within God, and have His signature.

There was some war in RCC summed in one word in relation to this... the filioque? and they fought
over if the three were co equal or if there was a procession... BIG schism.
it's too strange a battle, useless really, and I don't worry
about such, leaving it to Him.

 

[e v e]

I think the filioque battle has resulted in the various degradations
of ideas I used to see on the other forum,
such as that Christ was a man on this earth only,
...which for me is Wrong... Christ is deity and left Heaven
and reduced himself to this perishable
fleshbody to make it possible for us to return to Him in paradise.

 

[e v e]

Well we all make mistakes, I've made plenty. Hopefully we can forgive and move on.

Perhaps you were thinking of Pope Damasus I, his name came up with the canon.

thank you dizerner, I hope so too.

 

[synergy]

Thank you.


i would say I see them as 3 in the Godhead...

but I view Christ and God's Spirit as God's hands = attributes of God (cf Irenaeus). Not as a quality as
most people reduce it to, but as Beings of the Godhead....

they are God... and God is one. And, anything that has reality
in His Realm has to come from within God, and have His signature.

There was some war in RCC summed in one word in relation to this... the filioque? and they fought
over if the three were co equal or if there was a procession... BIG schism.
it's too strange a battle, useless really, and I don't worry
about such, leaving it to Him.

I was also influenced by Irenaeus' Two Hands of God comment. In a colloguial way, Jesus is God's Right Hand Man, sitting on the right hand side of God the Father. The Holy Spirit in a similar way and to God's left.

My personal opinion about the filioque is that it subordinated the Holy Spirit in the Church. That made it possible for advantageous Popes (not all Popes) to usurp the work of the Holy Spirit in the Church.

 

[e v e]

I was also influenced by Irenaeus' Two Hands of God comment. In a colloguial way, Jesus is God's Right Hand Man, sitting on the right hand side of God the Father. The Holy Spirit in a similar way and to God's left.

My personal opinion about the filioque is that it subordinated the Holy Spirit in the Church. That made it possible for Pope's to usurp the Holy Spirit in the Church.

yes I like that very much...about Christ and His Spirit as God's Hands...

 

[e v e]

I'm hoping things are better here for you. Its hard sometimes to be all things to all people and try and make eveyone happy on a medium like an online forum. You can please some of the people some of the times but not all of the people all of the times. Just look at the church in America. If you don't like something said from the pulpit many people will leave just because they don't agree with it. There are so many places and choices people have to go to a church or an online forum to spend their time. Its no easy task on this side of the fence.

I always try and put myself in someone else's shoes and try and see things from their perspective before making any decisions and try to assess it as unbiased and objectively as I can even when we disagree theologically like I would with oneness or unitarians. I must not favor trinitarians over them in this medium since technically its my forum ( Admins too) but I'm the one interacting most of the time on a daily basis with everyone.

So its much different for me now then it was on other forums with these types of responsibilities. I think I have become a better person for that, it has not changed me doctrinally at all but in the way I treat people. I have to be fair with everyone not just my fellow trinitarians.

hoe this helps !!!

Thank you I think that your attempt to have kindness as something expected of us all is very good.

 

[e v e]

I was also influenced by Irenaeus' Two Hands of God comment. In a colloguial way, Jesus is God's Right Hand Man, sitting on the right hand side of God the Father. The Holy Spirit in a similar way and to God's left.

My personal opinion about the filioque is that it subordinated the Holy Spirit in the Church. That made it possible for advantageous Popes (not all Popes) to usurp the work of the Holy Spirit in the Church.

everything of the popes was always and still is, an attempt to alter what He said and change it into the satanic version, imo. In a sneaky way of course, always using words that 'seem' okay... but that are not when you look a bit more closely.

 

[synergy]

everything of the popes was always and still is, an attempt to alter what He said and change it into the satanic version, imo. In a sneaky way of course, always using words that 'seem' okay... but that are not when you look a bit more closely.

I'm sure there was at least one good Pope, after the Church schism, but I'm having an awful time trying to come up with even one name. In all sincerity, maybe someone out there can help me?

 

[civic]

Thank you I think that your attempt to have kindness as something expected of us all is very good.

Thank you much appreciated

 

[e v e]

Thank you much appreciated

i was a bit shocked you took on a forum job...
as that is quite a lot , i can imagine , in so many ways...
on top of what's probably already a full plate...

that's good you have some help with it... : )