The Doctrine of the Resurrection of Christ

Brother-what I post is to glorify our Lord Christ Jesus and I won't "roll over" with this particular member-my salvation and eternal destination is ever before me and like I've said, I am here to learn.
I don't post everyday as you may have noticed.
All I have is Utley, Marvin and Robertson and a few exegetical commentaries plus the links you have shared.
I am trying to avoid this member and the fault is not with me.


The "contentious post"

Shalom
J.
I'm no different than you and some things were said about me and I took the bait and was guilty of the very thing I'm against and got caught up in the nonsense. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. So as I like to say ( which includes myself here ) someone has to be the bigger man and move on, ignore or as Jesus said bless those who curse you and say things against you. Its the heaping coals of fire upon the head principle at work. :)
 
Well, you didnt do that in this post,

@Johann said...

"""Salvation is not a product, but a daily relationship with God in Christ.= It is NOT finished when we trust in Christ"
GREEK VERB TENSES USED FOR SALVATION

Salvation is not a product, but a daily relationship with God in Christ. It is not finished when one trusts Christ; it has only begun (an example may be a gate and then a road, cf. Matt. 7:13-14)!

It is not a fire insurance policy, nor a ticket to heaven, but a life of growing Christlikeness (cf. Rom. 8:28-29; 2 Cor. 3:18; 7:1; Gal. 4:19; Eph. 1:4; 4:13; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:3,7; 5:23; 1 Pet. 1:15). We have a proverbial saying in America that says the longer a couple lives together, the more they begin to look alike. This is the goal of salvation! This concept of salvation as an initial response followed by a daily response can be seen in how all of the Greek VERB TENSES are used to describe "salvation."

SALVATION AS A COMPLETED ACTION (AORIST)


 ● Acts 15:11

 ● Romans 8:24

 ● 2 Timothy 1:9

 ● Titus 3:5

 ● Romans 13:11 (combines the AORIST with a future orientation)

SALVATION AS A STATE OF BEING BROUGHT ABOUT BY A PREVIOUS ACT (PERFECT)

 ● Ephesians 2:5,8

SALVATION AS A CONTINUING PROCESS THROUGH LIFE (PRESENT)

 ● 1 Corinthians 1:18; 15:2

 ● 2 Corinthians 2:15

 ● 1 Peter 3:21

SALVATION AS A FUTURE CONSUMMATION (FUTURE in VERB TENSE or context)

 ● Romans 5:9,10; 10:9,13

 ● 1 Corinthians 3:15; 5:5

 ● Philippians 1:28

 ● 1 Thessalonians 5:8-9

 ● Hebrews 1:14; 9:28

 ● 1 Peter 1:5

Therefore, NT salvation begins with an initial faith decision (cf. John 1:12; 3:16; Rom. 10:9-13), but this must issue in lifestyle faith (cf. Rom. 8:29; Gal. 2:19-20; Eph. 1:4; 2:10), which will one day be consummated in sight (cf. 1 John 3:2). This final state is called glorification (cf. Rom. 8:28-30). This process can be illustrated as

initial salvation ‒ justification (saved from the penalty of sin)
progressive salvation ‒ sanctification (saved from the power of sin)
final salvation ‒ glorification (saved from the presence of sin)

See what happens when you only quote a "part of the whole?"
 
GREEK VERB TENSES USED FOR SALVATION

Salvation is not a product, but a daily relationship with God in Christ. It is not finished when one trusts Christ; it has only begun (an example may be a gate and then a road, cf. Matt. 7:13-14)!

It is not a fire insurance policy, nor a ticket to heaven, but a life of growing Christlikeness (cf. Rom. 8:28-29; 2 Cor. 3:18; 7:1; Gal. 4:19; Eph. 1:4; 4:13; 1 Thess. 3:13; 4:3,7; 5:23; 1 Pet. 1:15). We have a proverbial saying in America that says the longer a couple lives together, the more they begin to look alike. This is the goal of salvation! This concept of salvation as an initial response followed by a daily response can be seen in how all of the Greek VERB TENSES are used to describe "salvation."

SALVATION AS A COMPLETED ACTION (AORIST)


 ● Acts 15:11

 ● Romans 8:24

 ● 2 Timothy 1:9

 ● Titus 3:5

 ● Romans 13:11 (combines the AORIST with a future orientation)

SALVATION AS A STATE OF BEING BROUGHT ABOUT BY A PREVIOUS ACT (PERFECT)

 ● Ephesians 2:5,8

SALVATION AS A CONTINUING PROCESS THROUGH LIFE (PRESENT)

 ● 1 Corinthians 1:18; 15:2

 ● 2 Corinthians 2:15

 ● 1 Peter 3:21

SALVATION AS A FUTURE CONSUMMATION (FUTURE in VERB TENSE or context)

 ● Romans 5:9,10; 10:9,13

 ● 1 Corinthians 3:15; 5:5

 ● Philippians 1:28

 ● 1 Thessalonians 5:8-9

 ● Hebrews 1:14; 9:28

 ● 1 Peter 1:5

Therefore, NT salvation begins with an initial faith decision (cf. John 1:12; 3:16; Rom. 10:9-13), but this must issue in lifestyle faith (cf. Rom. 8:29; Gal. 2:19-20; Eph. 1:4; 2:10), which will one day be consummated in sight (cf. 1 John 3:2). This final state is called glorification (cf. Rom. 8:28-30). This process can be illustrated as

initial salvation ‒ justification (saved from the penalty of sin)
progressive salvation ‒ sanctification (saved from the power of sin)
final salvation ‒ glorification (saved from the presence of sin)

See what happens when you only quote a "part of the whole?"
Yes much like sanctification, salvation ahs a past, present and future aspect, the same with justification and several other doctrines having a past, present and future.
 
GREEK VERB TENSES USED FOR SALVATION

Salvation is not a product, but a daily relationship with God in Christ. It is not finished when one trusts Christ; it has only begun

Salvation is Jesus being sacrificef on the Cross.

Jesus is Salvation.

John 14:6


This isn't going to change because the Heretic\s who you follow and "cut and paste", don't agree.

Believe it @Johann
 
Yes much like sanctification, salvation ahs a past, present and future aspect, the same with justification and several other doctrines having a past, present and future.

Salvation is Jesus's Sacrifice on the Cross = that is the New Covenant, as the Blood Atonement.

It happened in the Past, and this same Blood of God, continues to redeem, into the Future.

Jesus HIMSELF is our Salvation, as He is the only "Way" to God.... John 14:6

And that Truth.... is not the same as someone teaching...>"Jesus started my Salvation, but Its not finished, until i do MY PART, that completes it".
 
The Three Tenses of Sanctification
Salvation for the believer is past (Eph. 2:8; 2 Tim. 1:8,9), present (1 Cor. 1:18; 2 Cor. 2:5), and future tense (Rom. 5:9,10; Heb. 9:28). In other words, we have been saved, we are being saved, and someday we shall fully be saved from the wrath that is to come. Salvation won’t be complete until we receive resurrected bodies and fully in the presence of God. Sanctification also occurs in Scripture in past (1 Cor. 1:2; 6:19; Acts 20:32), present (Rom. 6:22; 2 Cor. 7:1), and future tense (Eph. 5:25-27; 1 Thess. 3:12,13). In other words, we have been sanctified, we are being sanctified, and some day we shall fully be sanctified.
 
The Three Tenses of Sanctification
Salvation for the believer is past (Eph. 2:8; 2 Tim. 1:8,9), present (1 Cor. 1:18; 2 Cor. 2:5), and future tense (Rom. 5:9,10; Heb. 9:28). In other words, we have been saved, we are being saved, and someday we shall fully be saved from the wrath that is to come. Salvation won’t be complete until we receive resurrected bodies and fully in the presence of God. Sanctification also occurs in Scripture in past (1 Cor. 1:2; 6:19; Acts 20:32), present (Rom. 6:22; 2 Cor. 7:1), and future tense (Eph. 5:25-27; 1 Thess. 3:12,13). In other words, we have been sanctified, we are being sanctified, and some day we shall fully be sanctified.

Jesus is our redemption and sanctification, and Justification.

1 Corinthians 1:30

And yes....There is the conforming into the Image of Christ, and there is an inheritance that is still to be revealed... and a new body to receive.
But those are the fruit of our Salvation.

Salvation itself...., is HOW God has reconciled Himself to a fallen humanity.
That's the Cross of Christ.
That's Jesus Himself, who is our Salvation, and our Eternal Life and "THE Resurrection".
He's all of this, and the reason we have Salvation, is because the One who is Salvation, is In all the born, again.
"Christ in YOU< the hope of Glory", and "Glory" is Heaven.
And "Christ in You".... is the same reason we have Eternal life, right now, exactly as we have Salvation, right now.

When a sinner comes to God, trusting Christ, then their "Faith is counted as (Christ's) Righteousness" ]
God then gives them "The GIFT of Salvation".. and "The Gift of Righteousness", as proven by being born again.
 
Yet we were saved in the past
We are being saved in the present
Our salvation will be completed/consummated in the future

See scripture references in previous post.
 
The word justify in Hebrew (hitsdiq) and Greek (dikaioun) “never refer to ... continuous justification entered Roman theology.

@Johann

Thank you for showing @civic .. that you are indeed teaching that Salvation through Christ is not FINISHED.

As you just posted that "continuous justification" that is the Blood Atonement, is not permanent.

So, you've again shown us your LEGALISM, and now maybe @civic, will see more clearly that you are teaching that Jesus does not keep you saved, and you are to do it.......as you stated, you are to "finish" your salvation.

Your Legalism is up and running, as usual., as i pointed out a few times today and will again, as that is all you teach.
 
Yet we were saved in the past
We are being saved in the present
Our salvation will be completed/consummated in the future

See scripture references in previous post.

He just posted that our """""Justification"""""= is not continuous.

That means he's teaching that our Salvation is not permanent.

Hes teaching that the Blood of Jesus that is our redemption, is only as good as your behavior....

That's Legalism.

That's what he teaches, @civic

He's doing it for you, right now.
 
You dont read or speak Hebrew, but you love to fake it and post some...

So, here you have posted that our Justification, in Christ..... is not permanent.

@civic is going to figure you out, soon enough, as your Legalism always burns brightly.

@Johann posted.

"""""The word justify in Hebrew (hitsdiq) and Greek (dikaioun) “never refer to ... continuous justification entered Roman theology."""""
Debate Over Justification by Faith:

Evangelicals and Catholics
Norman R. Gulley
Southern Adventist University

1. Biblical Understanding of
Justification by Faith


Paul says “they are justified by his grace as a gift, through the
redemption which is in Christ Jesus” (Rom 3:24, RSV), for “a man is
justified by faith apart from works of the law” (Rom 3:28 RSV), with even
faith a gift (Rom 10:17).

Humans are “justified by his blood” (Rom 5:9,
ESV). Calvary was the “one act of righteousness” which “leads to
justification and life for all men” (Rom 5:18b, ESV). “God made him
[Christ] who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the
righteousness of God” (2 Cor 5:21).

Justification is found in Christ, and is
received by faith. This has nothing to do with Christ’s faithfulness in the
covenant which continues human membership in the covenant, as proposed
by “New Perspectives on Paul” scholarship.

Justification explains how one
gets in (not how one stays in) the covenant. Justification is an entry level
reality, having to do with how one is saved.

The word justify in Hebrew (hitsdiq) and Greek (dikaioun) “never refer
to the infusion of righteousness, that is the transformation of someone from
being ungodly to being virtuous.”

Justification is the same throughout
humans’ history, in old and new covenant periods, because it is about the
one eternal gospel (Rev 14:6). Hence “Abraham believed God, and it was
reckoned (elogisth ) to him as righteousness” (Rom 4:3, RSV), or “counted”
to him (ESV). The word “reckoned” or “counted” is mentioned nine times
in the chapter. This is a forensic term. It is about the great exchange that
takes place in justification, humans become members of the covenant on the
basis of Christ substitutionary death for all humans.
The benefits of Christ’s death are available from the beginning of sin,
for “the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world” (Rev 13:8b);
“scripture foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached
the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, ‘In thee shall all nations be
blessed.’” (Gal 3:8 RSV). For God chose us in Christ from before the
foundation of the world (Ephes 1:4). “The Lord Our Righteousness” (Jer
23:6) is already a focus in the old covenant. That’s why David said, “God
counts (logizetai) righteousness apart from works” (Rom 4:6). Here is a
forensic statement, God declaring someone to be righteous.
At a deeper level, Christ was “delivered up for our transgressions and
raised for our justification” (Rom 4:25, ESV). There is a post-Calvary
dimension to God’s saving work that is often overlooked. Christ (Rom
8:34) and the Holy Spirit (Rom 8: 26, 27) both intercede in heaven for
believers. The Book of Hebrews is like a fifth Gospel, and focuses on Christ
post-ascension ministry which is just as important as His ministry on earth
(the subject of the four Gospels). If Christians had focused on all that
Christ and the Holy Spirit are doing for us in heaven’s sanctuary, believers
would not have been tempted to look to Mary and saints in intercessary
work for which they have no qualifications. For there is only “one mediator
between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom
for all men” (1 Tim 2:5, 6a). Christ alone is qualified to intercede on the
basis of His death (Heb 8:3; 9:15, 25-28; 10:12).
Just as Adam’s sin is imputed to all humans, so Christ’s death deals
with sin and His righteousness is imputed to all who will receive
justification. Christ’s righteousness imputed makes unnecessary any
infusion through sacraments or works to merit righteousness. Reckoned
righteousness finds the recipient always dependent on the imputed and
imparted righteousness of Christ. By contrast, infusion of righteousness
focuses on inherent righteousness and works that follow to merit more
righteousness. Personal performance and the performance of other humans
(Mary and saints) takes the place of sole dependence on Christ crucified,
resurrected, and interceding before the Father at heaven’s throne. For only
Christ Jesus has become “our righteousness, holiness and redemption” (1
Cor 1:30).
113

JOURNAL OF THE ADVENTIST THEOLOGICAL SOCIETY

2. History


During the first 350 years of the Christian era the doctrine of
justification was not an issue like the Christological and Trinitarian debates.
Nevertheless seeds were sown in those formative years that bore fruit in the
medieval period.

For example, just as impassibility (apatheia) of God was
a philosophical view that questioned God’s compassion, so auvtexousi,a (selfpower) was a philosophical term introducing human autonomy to the
doctrine of justification (cf. Latin liberum arbitrium). Also the Greek word
meromai (to receive one’s share) was translated by the Latin word meritum
(to be worthy of something) which brought the concept of “merit” into
medieval theology, effecting the biblical doctrine of justification. So alien
philosophical ideas distorted the biblical meaning of justification,
contributing to the Roman concept of justification.


Not to pat myself on the shoulder-I am past basics of Koine Greek and Hebrew and it as clear as day you are on an all out attempt to slander and not to edify.

J.
 
Debate Over Justification by Faith:

There is no "debate", if you understand why = Abraham is the Father of our faith, and that "Faith is (eternally) counted as (Christ's) Righteousness". by God.

However, if you dont understand any of this, then of course the eternal validity regarding the Sacrifice of Christ will be "debated" by the confused person(s).

So, @Johann..

Answer this question, for @civic

Why is it that if you are SAVED, Born again, then no matter how you behave later, after you have received Salvation..., you will always be redeemed and go Heaven when you die....?

Why is that?
 
There is no "debate", if you understand why = Abraham is the Father of our faith, and that "Faith is (eternally) counted as (Christ's) Righteousness". by God.

However, if you dont understand any of this, then of course the eternal validity regarding the Sacrifice of Christ will be "debated" by the confused person(s).

So, @Johann..

Answer this question, for @civic

Why is it that if you are SAVED, Born again, then no matter how you behave later, after you have received Salvation..., you will always be redeemed and go Heaven when you die....

Why is that?
"Why is it that if you are SAVED, Born again, then no matter how you behave later, after you have received Salvation..., you will always be redeemed and go Heaven when you die...."

This is indicative of a person who THINKS they are saved-and can "live in a state of sin"-meaning, this person was never regenerated in the FIRST place.
 
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