The Doctrine of Faith
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civic
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What about works ?
Is salvation by faith alone, or is salvation by faith plus works? This is perhaps the most important question in all of Christian theology. This question was the cause of the Reformation, the split between Protestantism and Catholicism. This question is a key difference between biblical Christianity and most of the cults. Is salvation through faith alone or through faith plus human works? Stated another way, am I saved by trusting in Jesus, or do I have to believe in Jesus and, in addition, do certain things?
The works in addition to faith needed for salvation differ in various religious circles. Many groups point to water baptism as a work that must be added to faith for salvation—if you’re not baptized, you’re not saved. Some go even further: you must be baptized by the right minister, using the right method, saying the right words.
Others suggest different rites to be observed in order to be saved, but the formula is always faith + [fill in the blank]. Salvation is through faith + receiving Mass, faith + going to confession, faith + tithing, etc.
Many passages of the Bible teach that salvation is through faith alone, not faith plus works. Ephesians 2:8–9, for example, is clearly worded and unequivocal: “It is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.” Of great importance is the word grace, which refers to God’s blessings on the undeserving. The very idea of grace negates all attempts to earn salvation. Paul makes that argument when teaching on God’s choosing of the remnant of Israel: “Since it is through God’s kindness, then it is not by their good works. For in that case, God’s grace would not be what it really is—free and undeserved” (Romans 11:6, NLT).
Other passages that clearly teach salvation through faith alone include Acts 16:31; Romans 3:28; 4:5; 5:1; Galatians 2:16; 3:24; Ephesians 1:13; and Philippians 3:9.
There are a few Bible passages that, at first glance, seem to teach salvation through faith plus works. One such is James 2:24, which appears to say that justification is by faith plus works: “You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.” This apparent problem is solved by examining the whole of James’ argument in his epistle. James is refuting the idea that a person can have saving faith without producing any good works (see James 2:17–18). Genuine faith in Christ, James says, will produce a changed life and result in good works (James 2:20–26). James is not saying that justification is by faith plus works, but that a person who is truly justified by faith will have good works in his or her life. The works are an outward show of genuine faith in Christ (James 2:14, 17, 20, 26)—and it’s that outward show that “justifies” the believer in the sight of other people.
Paul says those who have true faith in Jesus Christ will be “eager to do what is good” (Titus 2:14). To return to Ephesians 2, immediately after teaching that we are saved through faith, not through works (Ephesians 2:8–9), Paul says that we were created “to do good works” (Ephesians 2:10). Salvation comes by God’s grace through faith, and that faith is made manifest in good works. The works follow the faith and are a proof of it.
If we’re going to say that we are saved by works, we must qualify whose works. We are not saved by our own works, however meritorious they are in our own eyes. We are saved solely by the work of Christ on our behalf. His death and His resurrection are the works that save us. We receive our Savior by faith (John 1:12).got?
hope this helps !!!
Is salvation by faith alone, or is salvation by faith plus works? This is perhaps the most important question in all of Christian theology. This question was the cause of the Reformation, the split between Protestantism and Catholicism. This question is a key difference between biblical Christianity and most of the cults. Is salvation through faith alone or through faith plus human works? Stated another way, am I saved by trusting in Jesus, or do I have to believe in Jesus and, in addition, do certain things?
The works in addition to faith needed for salvation differ in various religious circles. Many groups point to water baptism as a work that must be added to faith for salvation—if you’re not baptized, you’re not saved. Some go even further: you must be baptized by the right minister, using the right method, saying the right words.
Others suggest different rites to be observed in order to be saved, but the formula is always faith + [fill in the blank]. Salvation is through faith + receiving Mass, faith + going to confession, faith + tithing, etc.
Many passages of the Bible teach that salvation is through faith alone, not faith plus works. Ephesians 2:8–9, for example, is clearly worded and unequivocal: “It is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast.” Of great importance is the word grace, which refers to God’s blessings on the undeserving. The very idea of grace negates all attempts to earn salvation. Paul makes that argument when teaching on God’s choosing of the remnant of Israel: “Since it is through God’s kindness, then it is not by their good works. For in that case, God’s grace would not be what it really is—free and undeserved” (Romans 11:6, NLT).
Other passages that clearly teach salvation through faith alone include Acts 16:31; Romans 3:28; 4:5; 5:1; Galatians 2:16; 3:24; Ephesians 1:13; and Philippians 3:9.
There are a few Bible passages that, at first glance, seem to teach salvation through faith plus works. One such is James 2:24, which appears to say that justification is by faith plus works: “You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.” This apparent problem is solved by examining the whole of James’ argument in his epistle. James is refuting the idea that a person can have saving faith without producing any good works (see James 2:17–18). Genuine faith in Christ, James says, will produce a changed life and result in good works (James 2:20–26). James is not saying that justification is by faith plus works, but that a person who is truly justified by faith will have good works in his or her life. The works are an outward show of genuine faith in Christ (James 2:14, 17, 20, 26)—and it’s that outward show that “justifies” the believer in the sight of other people.
Paul says those who have true faith in Jesus Christ will be “eager to do what is good” (Titus 2:14). To return to Ephesians 2, immediately after teaching that we are saved through faith, not through works (Ephesians 2:8–9), Paul says that we were created “to do good works” (Ephesians 2:10). Salvation comes by God’s grace through faith, and that faith is made manifest in good works. The works follow the faith and are a proof of it.
If we’re going to say that we are saved by works, we must qualify whose works. We are not saved by our own works, however meritorious they are in our own eyes. We are saved solely by the work of Christ on our behalf. His death and His resurrection are the works that save us. We receive our Savior by faith (John 1:12).got?
hope this helps !!!
dwight92070
Well-known member
1. The assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1
2. By directing our faith toward God. Since only God saves us and only Jesus saves us, our faith must be directed toward Him or we cannot be saved. Hebrews 11:6
"And without faith it is impossible to please Him (so we must know that He wants us to please Him), for He who comes to God (He wants us to come to Him), must believe that He is (the conviction of things not seen) and that He is a rewarder (the assurance of things hoped for) of those who seek Him (He wants us to seek Him).
3. Unbelief is an evil turning away or falling away from the living God. Hebrews 3:12
4. Yes, unbelief is the opposite of faith, because faith is the (righteous) acknowledgment that God exists and the (righteous) seeking Him and trusting His kindness and love.
2. By directing our faith toward God. Since only God saves us and only Jesus saves us, our faith must be directed toward Him or we cannot be saved. Hebrews 11:6
"And without faith it is impossible to please Him (so we must know that He wants us to please Him), for He who comes to God (He wants us to come to Him), must believe that He is (the conviction of things not seen) and that He is a rewarder (the assurance of things hoped for) of those who seek Him (He wants us to seek Him).
3. Unbelief is an evil turning away or falling away from the living God. Hebrews 3:12
4. Yes, unbelief is the opposite of faith, because faith is the (righteous) acknowledgment that God exists and the (righteous) seeking Him and trusting His kindness and love.
dwight92070
Well-known member
I like to think of Ephesians 2:8-9 in this way: "For by (God's) grace you have been saved through (your) faith; and that (salvation is) not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of (your) works, so that no one may boast."
dwight92070
Well-known member
Civic, do you see "confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord" (Romans 10:9-10) as a work?
Especially in light of this verse: "Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." Romans 10:13
Or Matthew 18:13 "God, be merciful to me, the sinner!" (the tax collector)
Especially in light of this verse: "Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." Romans 10:13
Or Matthew 18:13 "God, be merciful to me, the sinner!" (the tax collector)
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civic
Well-known member
No I see it as part of one’s confession of faith.
dwight92070
Well-known member
From what you said above, which I thought was very inciteful and helpful, especially your explanation of James, I think I know your answer, but I will ask it anyway.
Is water baptism a work, in your opinion?
Also, how do you interpret 1 Peter 3:21?
Is water baptism a work, in your opinion?
Also, how do you interpret 1 Peter 3:21?
To answer your question, we would need to know your definition of "work".
Also, Baptism is usually refered to as an ordinance or a sacrament, very rarely if ever a work.
Is hearing the Gospel a work?
Is trusting the Gospel a work?
Is meditating on the Gospel a work?
Is opening your heart to the Gospel a work?
Is praying to God a work?
Is listening to your conscience a work?
Is belief a work?
Is confessing Christ as your Lord and Savior a work?
etc.....
If any of the above is a work then how can you be saved without that work?
civic
Well-known member
none are works imho.
mailmandan
Well-known member
Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Unbelief (2 Corinthians 4:3,4) is the opposite of belief. (Romans 1:16)
Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-26).
*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.* (Romans 3:24-28)
It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-26) *Perfect Harmony*
Man is saved through faith and not by works (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is (evidenced) by works. (James 2:14-26).
*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.* (Romans 3:24-28)
It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine. (James 2:14-26) *Perfect Harmony*
civic
Well-known member
Amen brother !!!
What is interesting is if you do an etymology of the English word faith it came from the Latin word fide which means to trust. Faith in modern times does not mean to trust in someone/something.
mailmandan
Well-known member
In the New Testament, "pistis" primarily denotes a conviction or belief in the truth of something, often with the implication of trust and reliance. It is used to describe the faith that believers have in God and Jesus Christ, encompassing both intellectual assent and trustful commitment. "Pistis" is foundational to the Christian life, as it is through faith that believers are justified and live out their relationship with God.
civic
Well-known member
yes it also means a core set of doctrine : the faith once and for all delivered to the saints- this is the gospel and its content as we read in Romans 10:9-17. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ where Paul outlines what it means to believe and confess Christ is Lord. He ties in the resurrection with faith. ie the gospel.
Can one's faith ever be divorced from what one does? Can one be saved without actively repenting, praying to Christ, and confessing Christ? Calvinists say yes they can because they believe that they get zapped with faith. That makes them Monergists.
civic
Well-known member
I agree real faith like James says results in good works but they are not in the flesh but in the spirit. Paul says the same thing in Eph 2:10- we were created and saved for good works.
The reformers got that wrong. They need reforming.
They have created a false dilemma fallacy with their position on works. We are not talking about the law but obedience and the will which Jesus and the Apostles addressed in their teachings. Synergism is clearly taught in the entire N.T.
I would humbly disagree with your religious philosophy in this matter, based on all that is actually written in Scriptures, and will explain why. You omitted almost all of Paul's teaching in Ephesians in order to promote a specific adopted religious philosophy, and one that is popular in the world that God placed me in.
You do this by posting two sentences of Paul and omitting the conclusion of Paul's teaching in Eph. 2: 8&9 that he also gave us.
I would like to show all that are reading along, how the entire doctrine, the entire philosophy is changed by adding the very next sentence that is omitted by the author of the above sermon, whoever he is.
Eph. 2: 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
So if I stop right here, I can promote a religion that all men are saved, regardless of their lifestyle. "Come as you are". I can erase the entire Law and Prophets as irrelevant, and God's Word that Paul said was trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." are relegated as wasted words. I can live as I choose, yield myself a servant to any religious sect of this world, and be absolved of any choices I make, because you quote these two sentences from Paul and create an entire religious philosophy based on them.
But when I include the conclusion of Paul's teaching, the conclusion "he" came to in his understanding of God's Salvation, the entire popular philosophy you are promoting unravels.
10 For (Because, as a result) we are "his workmanship", created in Christ Jesus "unto good works", which God (Not man, lest any man should boast) hath before ordained that (For this purpose) we should "walk in them".
But wait, this is saying that the entire purpose of God's free Gift of Grace, is to turn men to God's " good works".
When a man also considers this sentence, the rest of Ephesians starts to make sense.
Eph. 2: 1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course (religions, traditions, philosophies) of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
But now, (Eph. 4
, 21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught "by him", as the truth is in Jesus:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God (Not the traditions and philosophies of this world's religions you once walked in) is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Paul's teaching starts to make sense, and you don't have to "Omit" so much of his words from your sermons or adopted sermons.
Rom. 2: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
2 Cor. 5: 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Rom. 6: 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members "as instruments of righteousness unto God".
I am only quoting Paul, but Jesus, Moses, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Peter, Malichi, and the rest all promoted the exact same Gospel with the exact same Salvation.
Ez. 18: 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
Because God's free Gift of Grace, that you had nothing to do in creating, has made it possible for you who are dead in your trespasses and sins, to turn away from walking in your tradition of transgressing God's Commandments, and turn to Him in His Good works that HE before ordained that you should walk in them. And this is called "Faith" in the holy Scriptures.
According to Paul, this is the very purpose of His Grace.
civic
Well-known member
works don't save they are the result of salvation, the evidence not the means to salvation- that is your heretical beliefs just like the pharisees.I would humbly disagree with your religious philosophy in this matter, based on all that is actually written in Scriptures, and will explain why. You omitted almost all of Paul's teaching in Ephesians in order to promote a specific adopted religious philosophy, and one that is popular in the world that God placed me in.
You do this by posting two sentences of Paul and omitting the conclusion of Paul's teaching in Eph. 2: 8&9 that he also gave us.
I would like to show all that are reading along, how the entire doctrine, the entire philosophy is changed by adding the very next sentence that is omitted by the author of the above sermon, whoever he is.
Eph. 2: 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
So if I stop right here, I can promote a religion that all men are saved, regardless of their lifestyle. "Come as you are". I can erase the entire Law and Prophets as irrelevant, and God's Word that Paul said was trustworthy "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works." are relegated as wasted words. I can live as I choose, yield myself a servant to any religious sect of this world, and be absolved of any choices I make, because you quote these two sentences from Paul and create an entire religious philosophy based on them.
But when I include the conclusion of Paul's teaching, the conclusion "he" came to in his understanding of God's Salvation, the entire popular philosophy you are promoting unravels.
10 For (Because, as a result) we are "his workmanship", created in Christ Jesus "unto good works", which God (Not man, lest any man should boast) hath before ordained that (For this purpose) we should "walk in them".
But wait, this is saying that the entire purpose of God's free Gift of Grace, is to turn men to God's " good works".
When a man also considers this sentence, the rest of Ephesians starts to make sense.
Eph. 2: 1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course (religions, traditions, philosophies) of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
But now, (Eph. 4
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God (Not the traditions and philosophies of this world's religions you once walked in) is created in righteousness and true holiness.
Paul's teaching starts to make sense, and you don't have to "Omit" so much of his words from your sermons or adopted sermons.
Rom. 2: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
2 Cor. 5: 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
Rom. 6: 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members "as instruments of righteousness unto God".
I am only quoting Paul, but Jesus, Moses, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Peter, Malichi, and the rest all promoted the exact same Gospel with the exact same Salvation.
Ez. 18: 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.
Because God's free Gift of Grace, that you had nothing to do in creating, has made it possible for you who are dead in your trespasses and sins, to turn away from walking in your tradition of transgressing God's Commandments, and turn to Him in His Good works that HE before ordained that you should walk in them. And this is called "Faith" in the holy Scriptures.
According to Paul, this is the very purpose of His Grace.
Like I said, you have your religious philosophy. I'm just pointing out that it isn't Paul's, when a person considers all of his teaching, as my post clearly point out.
And whether obedience is a choice a man makes, or the result of some supernatural force, matters little. In either case, the Good Works God created beforehand that men should walk in them, exists in the Biblical examples of faithful men. Regardless of the reason, the fruits exist.
But there is no time in any recorded Biblical history, that God's church rejected God's Judgments and created their own, rejected God statutes, and created their own high days, created images of God in the likeness of men. Yet you are a promoter of a religious business of this world which does just that, and you know it. There is also never recorded in Biblical History, a faithful servant of God condemning, ridiculing, persecuting, calling names, demeaning and otherwise scorning a man who has Yielded himself a servant to God. But there are countless examples of religious men, who Profess to know God, who even call Jesus Lord, Lord, who demean, ridicule and work to deceive those who "press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus".
You call those who believe all that Paul teaches, "a heretical Pharisee".
I respectfully disagree based on what is actually written in Scriptures.
civic
Well-known member
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