The butchering of John 1:1 by JW anti-Trinitarian Translators

TomL said:
The Jehovah Witness NWT adds to scripture here

Col 1:16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him.
Col 1:17 Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist,

and is a dishonest translation
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Yep... all other things including dandelions and pigweed.
 
civic said:
a translation coming from the flesh void of the Spirit of God. an earthly one void of truth and filled with error.
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Σατᾶν likes word salads, evidently. n To offer an opposition that there is no earthly reason to do is done for a reason.

Trivia:

The modern-day organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses began at the end of the 19th century. At that time, a small group of Bible students who lived near Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, in the United States, began a systematic analysis of the Bible. They compared the doctrines taught by the churches with what the Bible really teaches. They began publishing what they learned in books, newspapers, and the journal that is now called The Watchtower—Announcing Jehovah’s Kingdom.

Among that group of sincere Bible students was a man named Charles Taze Russell. While Russell took the lead in the Bible education work at that time and was the first editor of The Watchtower, he was not the founder of a new religion. The goal of Russell and the other Bible Students, as the group was then known, was to promote the teachings of Jesus Christ and to follow the practices of the first-century Christian congregation. Since Jesus is the Founder of Christianity, we view him as the founder of our organization.—Colossians 1:18-20.

It is rare, that even here we agree on what we commonly read, but the core basics there is no disagreement.

I would not be surprised to learn once we are off this ball of mud called earth that we find out that our seeming inability to 100% agree harkens back to Tower of Babel time when men was so puffed up with themselves and their own importance that a Tower was being built to the heavens... be is a real tower or a metaphorical one.

The scrambling of people and words into other languages could well be a precursor to our seeming inabilities to not agree with each other. by design.

I do not mean agreement with obvious things that can be proven or seen as wrong with outside religions and cults...
but certainly of the Main stream Protestants , and even some of what the RCC and Orthodox, and Messianic Jews bring to the table.

To change a word from I am He, to I am the one...is dangerous.

So be it. I am not condemning just observing.

Blessings


​

 
Keiw1 said:
You must have missed Psalm 45:7-quoted in NT At Heb 1:9-- You loved righteousness and hated wickedness, that is why God, your God, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your fellows( partners)= angels.
And Heb 1:4-- So he has become( means he was equal) better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited( given to him by God) a name more excellent than theirs.-- These bible facts cannot bedenied.
The Greek word for worship=Proskeneu, it carries 5 different meanings from Greek to English-1) worship to God-2) obeisance to a king-3) honor to a judge, plus 2 others.
Every bible writer knew 100% Jesus has a God and that God does not have a God, thus in reality, they bowed in obeisance to Gods appointed king. Catholicism put worship to fit their false council teaching that God is a trinity.
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He was greater than all the angels at birth

Hebrews 1:6 (KJV 1900) — 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
 
TomL said:
Angels do not receive worship but Christ did

Hebrews 1:5–6 (KJV 1900) — 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
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A mistranslated Greek word. Reality is they bowed in obeisance to Gods appointed king= the same exact Greek word for worship to God. It has 5 different meanings. Catholicism put worship to fit their false trinity god creation.
 
TomL said:
John 3:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Offers no justification for adding to scripture


Act 20:28(NWT) Pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed YOU overseers, to shepherd the congregation of God, which he purchased with the blood of his own [Son].

The Watchtower adds to and denies scripture, therefore is under the curse of God.
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What don't you understand --God gave his son= 2 beings 1 is God 1 is his son. There is only 1 God. Thus son is correct at Acts.
 
Johann said:
This is silly-

Hebrews 1:2 - "But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed the heir of all things, through whom also He created the worlds."

Here, “worlds” translates the Greek term aionas, which means “ages” or “worlds” in the sense of realms or dimensions of existence. This verse points to the Son (Jesus) as the means by which God the Father created everything, indicating that Jesus was directly involved in shaping the cosmos across all ages.

Colossians 1:16-17 - “For by Him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.”

Paul here confirms that Jesus created not only the physical world but also the spiritual realms, with “all things” in heaven and on earth made by Him and for Him. The phrase “in Him all things hold together” further underscores His sustaining power over creation, indicating His divine nature and creative authority.
Hebrews 11:3 - “By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.”

Although not explicitly naming Jesus, this passage aligns with the role of the Word (Logos), which John 1:1-3 identifies as Christ. The verse affirms that “the worlds” were framed by God’s Word, understood as Jesus, through whom creation was spoken into being.

1 Corinthians 8:6 - "Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live."

Here, Paul acknowledges Jesus as the one through whom all things were made, clarifying that Jesus’ creative role is distinct yet inseparably united with the Father’s purpose in creation.

J.
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He = Jehovah, not Jesus at Heb 1:2--See--HE( Jehovah) created the worlds-through Jesus.
 
civic said:

No exceptions meaning everything created​

Was done by Him and for Him. This includes the angels which Christ created and whom also worship Him now in heaven(see Rev 5).

Col 1:16-17
For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities — all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

We see above that creation of all things(panta- no exceptions and is all inclusive) were made by Him and solely for Him. They were created for His good pleasure. And without Him nothing was made that was made(see John 1:1-3).

Also since we see He is before all things created then logic and reason dictates that He is Eternal and not part of any creation. He is distinct and separate from created as the Creator.

Here we see that Paul completely exhausts the creation categories:

1)all things created
2)things in heaven
3)things in the earth
4) things visible
5)things invisible
6)thrones,dominions,rulers,authorities
7)the above mentioned things rule out any exceptions

Now we also see from the Apostle Paul that He(Christ) is BEFORE all things and that all things in Him subsist or are held together.

Now tell me Who other than the Almighty God known as YHWH is before all things, created all things and holds the very universe together?

The answer none but God. And Paul tells us in the context that Jesus is the very image of the invisible God. He made the unknown known, the invisible God became visible in the flesh. This is the Incarnation where we see in Christ God was manifest in the flesh. God became man as John's prologue so eloquently spells out in verses 1-18.

So can you like the Author of Hebrews, Paul, Thomas, Peter and John confess Jesus is your God, your Creator?

Angels were created as per Colossians 1:16-17 below who are the created angels , the principalities and powers with rank and order below. And we know only God created them and has the power over them. And Christ is God, their Creator who rules over them.

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Ephesians 1:20-21
which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:

Ephesians 3:10
To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

The angels are His to command.

Matt 13:41
41 "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness,

Matt 24:30-31
30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. 31"And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Matt 25:31-33
31 "But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. 32"All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.

2 Thess 1:7
when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire,

1 Tim 5:21
I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus and of His chosen angels, to maintain these principles without bias, doing nothing in a spirit of partiality.

Heb 1:6
He says,
"AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM."


Rev 5:11-12
11 Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders; and the number of them was myriads of myriads, and thousands of thousands, 12saying with a loud voice,
"Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing."


The four living creatures said, "Amen," and the elders fell down and worshiped.

More evidence He is the Creator of all things, everyhing.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

John 1:3
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

Romans 11:33-36
Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! 34 For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who became His counselor? 35 Or who has first given to Him that it might be paid back to him again? 36 For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.


1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

Colossians 1:16-17
For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

Hebrews 1:10
He also says,
"In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.



hope this helps !!!
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He at Heb 1:2=Jehovah God--see HE made the universe.
Worship is mistranslated Greek word for one who has a God. It also means--obeisance to a king= Jesus= Gods appointed king-thus no worship. No one who has a God gets worship.
 
MTMattie said:
Yet:

Jesus said.....JOHN 8:24 “THEREFORE I SAID TO YOU THAT YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS; FOR UNLESS YOU BELIEVE THAT I AM HE YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS.",
Your translation word play
24  That is why I said to you: You will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am the one, you will die in your sins.”
Σατᾶν sure was busy.
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Yes i am he= the one sent by God=The Messiah. He said that to the unbelieving Jews. They would not accept him as the Messiah.
 
TomL said:
He was greater than all the angels at birth

Hebrews 1:6 (KJV 1900) — 6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
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The Greek word proskeneu( spelled wrong) has different meanings-1) worship to God-2) obeisance to a king-3) honor to a judge, plus 2 others. They would never give worship to one they know has a God( Ps 45:7)-reality--They bowed in obeisance to Gods appointed king. Catholicism put worship to fit their false trinity god creation=100% fact of life. You best relook.
 
Keiw1 said:
The Greek word proskeneu( spelled wrong) has different meanings-1) worship to God-2) obeisance to a king-3) honor to a judge, plus 2 others. They would never give worship to one they know has a God( Ps 45:7)-reality--They bowed in obeisance to Gods appointed king. Catholicism put worship to fit their false trinity god creation=100% fact of life. You best relook.
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You need to find another Bogeyman besides Catholics because I don't know of even one Catholic person in this Forum.

It's back to the drawing board for your heresies.
 
Keiw1 said:
He at Heb 1:2=Jehovah God--see HE made the universe.
Worship is mistranslated Greek word for one who has a God. It also means--obeisance to a king= Jesus= Gods appointed king-thus no worship. No one who has a God gets worship.
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Nope read 1:8-12 refutes your position , it’s the Son
 
synergy said:
You need to find another Bogeyman besides Catholics because I don't know of even one Catholic person in this Forum.

It's back to the drawing board for your heresies.
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You best look into history facts. There doesn't have to be any in this forum, the protestants fixed little, they only had Catholicism( 2Thess 2:3) translating to go by.
Every trinity religion on earth lives in this boat= A house divided will not stand---you best relook.
 
civic said:
Nope read 1:8-12 refutes your position , it’s the Son
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Did you miss verse 4-- So he has become better than the angels( means he was equal to them) to the extent he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs. God gave him that name=Jesus. Its to bad you cant understand English for yourself.
Psalm 45:7--You loved righteousness and hated wickedness that is why God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your partners(fellows)= angels.
You best start believing the bible facts i post.
 
Olde Tymer said:
For that reason I do not recommend debating with JWs over the spelling in John
1:1 seeing as how the grammatical ground they stand on is just as solid as ours.
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why argue? did not God himself settle that question.... "a God?" listen, Deuteronomy 32:39 "See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand."

no god with me". how clear can one get?

101G.
 
Keiw1 said:
You best look into history facts. There doesn't have to be any in this forum, the protestants fixed little, they only had Catholicism( 2Thess 2:3) translating to go by.
Every trinity religion on earth lives in this boat= A house divided will not stand---you best relook.
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The Catholics had nothing to do with the Greek NT Text. They wrote in Latin. You're criticizing the Apostles which is what all Heretics like you do. That's how low your JW Garbage is.
 
Keiw1 said:
The Greek word proskeneu( spelled wrong) has different meanings-1) worship to God-2) obeisance to a king-3) honor to a judge, plus 2 others. They would never give worship to one they know has a God( Ps 45:7)-reality--They bowed in obeisance to Gods appointed king. Catholicism put worship to fit their false trinity god creation=100% fact of life. You best relook.
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No matter how you put it, it is still shown Christ is greater than the Angels

Do you ever read of angels bowing to other angels?

Better learn to think for yourself instead of letting the watchtower do it for you.
 
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