The butchering of John 1:1 by JW anti-Trinitarian Translators

@Keiw1 @Peterlag

How do the Greek Lexicons and Greek Grammarians define this word in Colossians 1:15 ?


NT:4416
prototokos (‎prwto/toko$‎, NT:4416), "firstborn" (from protos, "first," and tikto, "to beget"), is used of Christ as born of the Virgin Mary, Luke 2:7; further, in His relationship to the Father, expressing His priority to, and preeminence over, creation, not in the sense of being the "first" to be born. It is used occasionally of superiority of position in the OT, see Ex 4:22; Deut 21:16,17, the prohibition being against the evil of assigning the privileged position of the "firstborn" to one born subsequently to the "first" child.

The five passages in the NT relating to Christ may be set forth chronologically thus: (a) Col 1:15, where His eternal relationship with the Father is in view, and the clause means both that He was the "Firstborn" before all creation and that He Himself produced creation (the genitive case being objective, as v. 16 makes clear); (b) Col 1:18 and Rev 1:5, in reference to His resurrection; (c) Rom 8:29, His position in relationship to the church; (d) Heb 1:6, RV, His second advent (the RV "when He again bringeth in," puts "again" in the right place, the contrast to His first advent, at His birth, being implied); cf. Ps 89:27. The word is used in the plural, in Heb 11:28, of the firstborn sons in the families of the Egyptians, and in 12:23, of the members of the Church.

Note: With (a) cf. John 1:30, "He was before me," lit., "He was first (protos) of me," i. e., "in regard to me," expressing all that is involved in His preexistence and priority.
(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers.)

NT:4416
The figurative meaning of ‎prwto/toko$ ‎in the messianic title ‎prwto/toko$ pa/sh$ kti/sew$ ‎'firstborn of all creation' (Col 1:15 may be interpreted as 'existing before all creation' (see 13.79) or 'existing superior to all creation' (see 87.47).
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)

13.79 NT:4416‎prwto/toko$‎b, ‎on‎: pertaining to existing prior to something else - 'existing first, existing before.' ‎prwto/toko$ pa/sh$ kti/sew$ ‎'existing before all creation' or 'existing before anything was created' Col 1:15. It is possible to understand ‎prwto/toko$ ‎in Col 1:15 as 'superior in status' (see 87.47). See also discussion at 10.43.(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)


87.47 NT:4416‎prwto/toko$‎c, ‎on‎: pertaining to existing superior to all else of the same or related class - 'superior to, above all.' ‎prwto/toko$ pa/sh$ kti/sew$ ‎'existing superior to all creation' Col 1:15. For another interpretation of ‎prwto/toko$ ‎in Col 1:15, see 13.79;
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)

Colossians 1:15
The expression does not mean that he was "begotten before all creatures," as it is often explained, but refers to the simple fact that he sustains the highest rank over the creation. He is the Son of God. He is the heir of all things. All other creatures are also the "offspring of God;" but he is exalted as the Son of God above all.
(from Barnes' Notes, Electronic Database Copyright © 1997, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)



Colossians 1:15
First-born of every creature (Heb 1:6) - "the first-begotten:" 'begotten of His Father before all worlds' ('Nicene Creed'). 'God, of the substance of His Father, begotten before the worlds; and man, of the substance of His mother, born in the world' ('Athanasian Creed'). Priority and superlative dignity is implied (Ps 89:27). The English version seems to make Christ a creature. Translate [‎proototokos ‎‎pasees ‎‎ktiseoos‎], 'Begotten before every creature,' as the context gives the reason why He is so designated: 'For,' etc. (Trench), Col 1:16-17, "He is before all things." Thus, ‎pasa ‎‎ktisis ‎has not to be taken 'the first-begotten of all creatures,' but in its strict sense, 'before every creature.' "First-begotten" marks at once His eternal priority and His condescending to brotherhood with us (Rom 8:29). "Only-begotten" marks His relation to the Father by generation from everlasting. This expression is used by Origen (so far is the Greek from favouring Arian views) to mark Christ's Godhead, in contrast with His manhood, (B. ii. , contra Cels.) Since He was before "every creature" [the genitive of the point of view, 'in comparison to' far or long before: John 1:15,30, protosmou; John 15:18, etc.], He cannot be a creature Himself, but the Creator. The Greek is against Alford's translation, 'the first-born of all creation.'
(from Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1997, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)



Colossians 1:15
The first born proototokos‎. Predicate adjective again and anarthrous. This passage is parallel to the ‎Logos ‎passage in John 1:1-18 and to Heb 1:1-4 as well as Phil 2:5-11 in which these three writers (John, author of Hebrews, Paul) give the high conception of the Person of Christ (both Son of God and Son of Man) found also in the Synoptic Gospels and even in Q (the Father, the Son). This word (the Septuagint and the New Testament) can no longer be considered purely "Biblical" (Thayer), since it is found in inscriptions (Deissmann, Light, etc., p. 91) and in the papyri (Moulton and Milligan, Vocabulary, etc.). See it already in Luke 2:7 and Codex Sinaiticus (a) for Matt 1:25; Rom 8:29. The use of this word does not show what Arius argued that Paul regarded Christ as a creature like "all creation" ‎pasees ‎‎ktiseoos‎, by metonomy the act regarded as result). It is rather the comparative (superlative) force of ‎prootos ‎that is used (first-born of all creation) as in Col 1:18; Rom 8:29; Heb 1:6; 12:23; Rev 1:5. Paul is here refuting the Gnostics who pictured Christ as one of the aeons by placing him before "all creation" (angels and men). Like ‎eikoon ‎we find ‎proototokos ‎in the Alexandrian vocabulary of the Logos teaching (Philo) as well as in the Septuagint. Paul takes both words to help express the deity of Jesus Christ in his relation to the Father as ‎eikoon ‎(Image) and to the universe as ‎proototokos ‎(First-born).
(from Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1997, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament. Copyright © 1985 by Broadman Press.)



Colossians 1:15
The first-born of every creature proototokos ‎‎pasees ‎‎ktiseoos‎. The English Revised Version (1885): "the first-born of all creation." For "first-born," see the note at Rev 1:5; for "creation," at 2 Cor 5:17. As "image" points to "revelation," so "first-born" points to "eternal pre-existence." Even the English Revised Version is a little ambiguous, for we must carefully avoid any suggestion that Christ was the first of created things, which is contradicted by the following words: "in Him were all things created." The true sense is, "born before the creation." Compare "before all things," Col 1:17. This fact of priority implies "sovereignty." He is exalted above all thrones, etc., and all things are "unto" ‎eis ‎Him, as they are elsewhere declared to be unto God. Compare Ps 89:27; Heb 1:2.
(from Vincent's Word Studies in the New Testament, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1997, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)



Colossians 1:15
The word "firstborn" is ‎prœtotokos‎. The Greek word implied two things, priority to all creation and sovereignty over all creation. In the first meaning we see the absolute preexistence of the Logos. Since our Lord existed before all created things, He must be uncreated. Since He is uncreated, He is eternal. Since He is eternal, He is God. Since He is God, He cannot be one of the emanations from deity of which the Gnostic speaks, even though He proceeds from God the Father as the Son. In the second meaning we see that He is the natural ruler, the acknowledged head of God's household. Thus again, He cannot be one of the emanations from deity in whom the divine essence is present but diffused. He is Lord of creation.

(from Wuest's Word Studies from the Greek New Testament, Copyright 1940-55 by Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co. Copyrights © renewed 1968-73 by Jeannette I. Wuest. All rights reserved.)


NT:4416
13.79 NT:4416‎prwto/toko$‎b, ‎on‎: pertaining to existing prior to something else - 'existing first, existing before.' ‎prwto/toko$ pa/sh$ kti/sew$ ‎'existing before all creation' or 'existing before anything was created' Col 1:15. It is possible to understand ‎prwto/toko$ ‎in Col 1:15 as 'superior in status' (see 87.47). See also discussion at 10.43.(Louw and Nida Greek-English Lexicon )

hope this helps !!!
 
I love Jesus, he is my king. Jehovah is my God.

Yeah.... right.
Here is what Jesus teaches on the matter--The Father is greater than i. There is no equality. Jesus lives to do his Fathers will, he only taught what the Father commanded him to teach. Here at Rev 21:1 this occurs=1Cor 15:24-28--Jesus must hand back the kingdom to his God and Father and subject himself.--100% reality= God does not have a God.

Just admit that you love "Jehovah" more than Jesus. You believe you're required to love the Father more than Jesus. The Father doesn't see it that way. Men see it that way. Men are so corrupted in their own choice they can't see the Perfection that exists between the Father and the Son. The Father isn't concerned with you loving Jesus just as much as you love Him.

God is not a man that he should lie............
 
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I love Jesus, he is my king. Jehovah is my God.
Here is what Jesus teaches on the matter--The Father is greater than i. There is no equality. Jesus lives to do his Fathers will, he only taught what the Father commanded him to teach. Here at Rev 21:1 this occurs=1Cor 15:24-28--Jesus must hand back the kingdom to his God and Father and subject himself.--100% reality= God does not have a God.

I hope you don't mind if I ask you a personal question. Do you love your wife more than you love your children? If you have more than one child, do you love one child more than the other child?
 
I love Jesus, he is my king. Jehovah is my God.
Here is what Jesus teaches on the matter--The Father is greater than i. There is no equality. Jesus lives to do his Fathers will, he only taught what the Father commanded him to teach. Here at Rev 21:1 this occurs=1Cor 15:24-28--Jesus must hand back the kingdom to his God and Father and subject himself.--100% reality= God does not have a God.
NO THEY dont
 
god= has godlike qualities=Gods image in Jesus case., not God.
Your translation does not read godlike

and can you explain why your translation had to add the word son

Act 20:28(NWT) Pay attention to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the holy spirit has appointed YOU overseers, to shepherd the congregation of God, which he purchased with the blood of his own [Son].
 
Yes the Father created all things.
Through Jesus

Heb 1:8(NWT) But with reference to the Son: "God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness.
Heb 1:9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with [the] oil of exultation more than your partners."
Heb 1:10 And: "You at [the] beginning, O Lord, laid the foundations of the earth itself, and the heavens are [the] works of your hands.


BTW who is Lord here?

and in the original reference?

Psa 102:21 (NWT) For the name of Jehovah to be declared in Zion And his praise in Jerusalem,
Psa 102:22 When the peoples are collected all together, And the kingdoms to serve Jehovah.
Psa 102:23 On the way he afflicted my power, He cut short my days.
Psa 102:24 I proceeded to say: "O my God, Do not take me off at the half of my days; Your years are throughout all generations.
Psa 102:25 Long ago you laid the foundations of the earth itself, And the heavens are the work of your hands.
Psa 102:26 They themselves will perish, but you yourself will keep standing; And just like a garment they will all of them wear out. Just like clothing you will replace them, and they will finish their turn.
Psa 102:27 But you are the same, and your own years will not be completed.
Psa 102:28 The sons of your servants will continue residing; And before you their own offspring will be firmly established."
 
Yes the Father created all things.
When did Yahweh Jehovah create all things?

NOW.. a bit of Trivia education... ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DISDAIN THE CATHOLICS SO MUCH

Read this and understand it......

In Hebrew the name of God is spelled YHWH. Since ancient Hebrew had no written vowels, it is uncertain how the name was pronounced originally, but there are records of the name in Greek, which did have written vowels. These records indicate that in all likelihood the name should be pronounced “Yahweh.”

Shortly before the first century A.D., it became common for Jews to avoid saying the divine name for fear of misusing it and breaking the second commandment (“You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain” [Deut. 5:11). Whenever they read Scripture aloud and encountered the divine name, they substituted another Hebrew word, “Adonai” (which means “Lord” or “my Lord”), in its place.

Eventually Hebrew developed written vowels, which appeared as small marks called vowel points and were placed above and below the consonants of a word. In the sixth or seventh century some Jews began to place the vowel points for “Adonai” over the consonants for “Yahweh”
to remind the reader of Scripture to say “Adonai” whenever he read “Yahweh.”

About the 13th century the term “Jehovah” appeared when Christian scholars took the consonants of “Yahweh” and pronounced it with the vowels of “Adonai.”

This resulted in the sound “Yahowah,” which has a Latinized spelling of “Jehovah.”
The first recorded use of this spelling was made by a Spanish Dominican monk, Raymundus Martini, in 1270.

(You might want to reread this....above)

Interestingly, this fact is admitted in much Jehovah’s Witness literature, such as their Aid to Bible Understanding (p. 885).

This is surprising because Jehovah’s Witnesses loathe the Catholic Church and have done everything in their power to strip their church of traces of Catholicism.



Jehovah’s Witnesses blast orthodox Christendom for “hiding the name of God” by replacing “Jehovah” with “the Lord” whenever “Jehovah” appears in Scripture.

They charge this is a Jewish “superstition” that dishonors God (which it does not). Yet their own organization has a name that was invented as a result of the same thinking that produced the use of “the Lord.”
 
When did Yahweh Jehovah create all things?

NOW.. a bit of Trivia education... ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO DISDAIN THE CATHOLICS SO MUCH

Read this and understand it......

In Hebrew the name of God is spelled YHWH. Since ancient Hebrew had no written vowels, it is uncertain how the name was pronounced originally, but there are records of the name in Greek, which did have written vowels. These records indicate that in all likelihood the name should be pronounced “Yahweh.”

Shortly before the first century A.D., it became common for Jews to avoid saying the divine name for fear of misusing it and breaking the second commandment (“You shall not take the name of the Lord, your God, in vain” [Deut. 5:11). Whenever they read Scripture aloud and encountered the divine name, they substituted another Hebrew word, “Adonai” (which means “Lord” or “my Lord”), in its place.

Eventually Hebrew developed written vowels, which appeared as small marks called vowel points and were placed above and below the consonants of a word. In the sixth or seventh century some Jews began to place the vowel points for “Adonai” over the consonants for “Yahweh”
to remind the reader of Scripture to say “Adonai” whenever he read “Yahweh.”

About the 13th century the term “Jehovah” appeared when Christian scholars took the consonants of “Yahweh” and pronounced it with the vowels of “Adonai.”

This resulted in the sound “Yahowah,” which has a Latinized spelling of “Jehovah.”
The first recorded use of this spelling was made by a Spanish Dominican monk, Raymundus Martini, in 1270.

(You might want to reread this....above)

Interestingly, this fact is admitted in much Jehovah’s Witness literature, such as their Aid to Bible Understanding (p. 885).

This is surprising because Jehovah’s Witnesses loathe the Catholic Church and have done everything in their power to strip their church of traces of Catholicism.


Jehovah’s Witnesses blast orthodox Christendom for “hiding the name of God” by replacing “Jehovah” with “the Lord” whenever “Jehovah” appears in Scripture.

They charge this is a Jewish “superstition” that dishonors God (which it does not). Yet their own organization has a name that was invented as a result of the same thinking that produced the use of “the Lord.”
Why does the New World Translation use the form “Jehovah”? In English, the four letters of the Tetragrammaton (יהוה) are represented by the consonants YHWH. As was true of all written words in ancient Hebrew, the Tetragrammaton contained no vowels. When ancient Hebrew was in everyday use, readers easily provided the appropriate vowels.

About a thousand years after the Hebrew Scriptures were completed, Jewish scholars developed a system of pronunciation points, or signs, by which to indicate what vowels to use when reading Hebrew. By that time, though, many Jews had the superstitious idea that it was wrong to say God’s personal name out loud, so they used substitute expressions. Thus, it seems that when they copied the Tetragrammaton, they combined the vowels for the substitute expressions with the four consonants representing the divine name. Therefore, the manuscripts with those vowel points do not help in determining how the name was originally pronounced in Hebrew. Some feel that the name was pronounced “Yahweh,” whereas others suggest different possibilities. A Dead Sea Scroll containing a portion of Leviticus in Greek transliterates the divine name Iao. Besides that form, early Greek writers also suggest the pronunciations Iae, I·a·beʹ, and I·a·ou·eʹ. However, there is no reason to be dogmatic. We simply do not know how God’s ancient servants pronounced this name in Hebrew. (Genesis 13:4; Exodus 3:15) What we do know is that God used his name repeatedly in communication with his people, that they addressed him by that name, and that they used it freely in speaking with others.—Exodus 6:2; 1 Kings 8:23; Psalm 99:9.

Why, then, does this translation use the form “Jehovah”? Because that form of the divine name has a long history in the English language.

The divine name Jehovah

God’s name at Genesis 15:2 in William Tyndale’s translation of the Pentateuch, 1530
The first rendering of God’s personal name in an English Bible appeared in 1530 in William Tyndale’s translation of the Pentateuch. He used the form “Iehouah.” Over time, the English language changed, and the spelling of the divine name was modernized. For example, in 1612, Henry Ainsworth used the form “Iehovah” throughout his translation of the book of Psalms. Then, in 1639, when that work was revised and printed with the Pentateuch, the form “Jehovah” was used. In 1901, the translators who produced the American Standard Version of the Bible used the form “Jehovah” where the divine name appeared in the Hebrew text.

Explaining why he used “Jehovah” instead of “Yahweh” in his 1911 work Studies in the Psalms, respected Bible scholar Joseph Bryant Rotherham said that he wanted to employ a “form of the name more familiar (while perfectly acceptable) to the general Bible-reading public.” In 1930 scholar A. F. Kirkpatrick made a similar point regarding the use of the form “Jehovah.” He said: “Modern grammarians argue that it ought to be read Yahveh or Yahaveh; but JEHOVAH seems firmly rooted in the English language, and the really important point is not the exact pronunciation, but the recognition that it is a Proper Name, not merely an appellative title like ‘Lord.’” https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1001070204
 
Why does the New World Translation use the form “Jehovah”? In English, the four letters of the Tetragrammaton (יהוה) are represented by the consonants YHWH. As was true of all written words in ancient Hebrew, the Tetragrammaton contained no vowels. When ancient Hebrew was in everyday use, readers easily provided the appropriate vowels.

About a thousand years after the Hebrew Scriptures were completed, Jewish scholars developed a system of pronunciation points, or signs, by which to indicate what vowels to use when reading Hebrew. By that time, though, many Jews had the superstitious idea that it was wrong to say God’s personal name out loud, so they used substitute expressions. Thus, it seems that when they copied the Tetragrammaton, they combined the vowels for the substitute expressions with the four consonants representing the divine name. Therefore, the manuscripts with those vowel points do not help in determining how the name was originally pronounced in Hebrew. Some feel that the name was pronounced “Yahweh,” whereas others suggest different possibilities. A Dead Sea Scroll containing a portion of Leviticus in Greek transliterates the divine name Iao. Besides that form, early Greek writers also suggest the pronunciations Iae, I·a·beʹ, and I·a·ou·eʹ. However, there is no reason to be dogmatic. We simply do not know how God’s ancient servants pronounced this name in Hebrew. (Genesis 13:4; Exodus 3:15) What we do know is that God used his name repeatedly in communication with his people, that they addressed him by that name, and that they used it freely in speaking with others.—Exodus 6:2; 1 Kings 8:23; Psalm 99:9.

Why, then, does this translation use the form “Jehovah”? Because that form of the divine name has a long history in the English language.

The divine name Jehovah

God’s name at Genesis 15:2 in William Tyndale’s translation of the Pentateuch, 1530
The first rendering of God’s personal name in an English Bible appeared in 1530 in William Tyndale’s translation of the Pentateuch. He used the form “Iehouah.” Over time, the English language changed, and the spelling of the divine name was modernized. For example, in 1612, Henry Ainsworth used the form “Iehovah” throughout his translation of the book of Psalms. Then, in 1639, when that work was revised and printed with the Pentateuch, the form “Jehovah” was used. In 1901, the translators who produced the American Standard Version of the Bible used the form “Jehovah” where the divine name appeared in the Hebrew text.

Explaining why he used “Jehovah” instead of “Yahweh” in his 1911 work Studies in the Psalms, respected Bible scholar Joseph Bryant Rotherham said that he wanted to employ a “form of the name more familiar (while perfectly acceptable) to the general Bible-reading public.” In 1930 scholar A. F. Kirkpatrick made a similar point regarding the use of the form “Jehovah.” He said: “Modern grammarians argue that it ought to be read Yahveh or Yahaveh; but JEHOVAH seems firmly rooted in the English language, and the really important point is not the exact pronunciation, but the recognition that it is a Proper Name, not merely an appellative title like ‘Lord.’”
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1001070204
Look at this....


From the Jehovah Witness link here...


New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (Study Edition)


It is their translation of choice.

If you book mark it you can readily get to it for reference.....

It is a totally misguided and misleading translation but it the one the JWs are basing their eternities on.

Just a side note... they will always jump on any other translation as being false because of "Catholic" interpretations and translations.
Boy, do they hate that church.

Another to watch out for is the NIV. And I am ashamed my own church has it in their pews. And I jhave posted this link before for it is a common
translation used by some anti-trins. My church is not anti-Trin... other faults but not that one.

Here is just one of the 12 from the link... (All of it is interesting


Reason no. 4: NIV denies Christ as the Creator

This might be a shock to many Christians, but Yahshua or Jesus Christ is the Creator of all things. Now, this is entirely a different topic that I won’t discuss today, but you may simply check out these verses as they prove that Christ is the Creator: Colossians 1:16; John 1:1-3; and Hebrews 11:3.

There’s one particular verse that I want you to take a look at. It’s found in Ephesians 3:9:

“And to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things” (NIV).

“And to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ” (NKJV).

Did you see a big difference? NIV just denied Christ’s Creatorship!

This is a direct assault on Christ’s divine nature and His role as our Creator, Savior, and Messiah.

Now, if you are just using the NIV, how would you know this profound truth written in the pages of your Bible? Surely, NIV users are again eternally denied of this truth.
 
Look at this....


From the Jehovah Witness link here...


New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (Study Edition)


It is their translation of choice.

If you book mark it you can readily get to it for reference.....

It is a totally misguided and misleading translation but it the one the JWs are basing their eternities on.

Just a side note... they will always jump on any other translation as being false because of "Catholic" interpretations and translations.
Boy, do they hate that church.

Another to watch out for is the NIV. And I am ashamed my own church has it in their pews. And I jhave posted this link before for it is a common
translation used by some anti-trins. My church is not anti-Trin... other faults but not that one.

Here is just one of the 12 from the link... (All of it is interesting


Reason no. 4: NIV denies Christ as the Creator

This might be a shock to many Christians, but Yahshua or Jesus Christ is the Creator of all things. Now, this is entirely a different topic that I won’t discuss today, but you may simply check out these verses as they prove that Christ is the Creator: Colossians 1:16; John 1:1-3; and Hebrews 11:3.

There’s one particular verse that I want you to take a look at. It’s found in Ephesians 3:9:

“And to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things” (NIV).

“And to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ” (NKJV).

Did you see a big difference? NIV just denied Christ’s Creatorship!

This is a direct assault on Christ’s divine nature and His role as our Creator, Savior, and Messiah.

Now, if you are just using the NIV, how would you know this profound truth written in the pages of your Bible? Surely, NIV users are again eternally denied of this truth.
Most modern bibles read as does the NIV. That does not mean they deny Christ is creator as other verses affirm it

John 1:3 (NIV) — 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

John 1:10 (NIV) — 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.

Colossians 1:16 (NIV) — 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

Hebrews 1:2 (NIV) — 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

Hebrews 1:10–11 (NIV) — 10 He also says, “In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. 11 They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment.

1 Corinthians 8:6 (KJV 1900) — 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

And further the NIV has more text supporting the Deity of Christ than the KJV
 
It's clear that English is not your primary language. What is your primary language or mother tongue? Your English communication skills are terrible. Write what you're attempting to communicate in your mother tongue and maybe then we'll understand what you're trying to communicate.
Its simple enough. Any can understand it.
 
Look at this....


From the Jehovah Witness link here...


New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (Study Edition)


It is their translation of choice.

If you book mark it you can readily get to it for reference.....

It is a totally misguided and misleading translation but it the one the JWs are basing their eternities on.

Just a side note... they will always jump on any other translation as being false because of "Catholic" interpretations and translations.
Boy, do they hate that church.

Another to watch out for is the NIV. And I am ashamed my own church has it in their pews. And I jhave posted this link before for it is a common
translation used by some anti-trins. My church is not anti-Trin... other faults but not that one.

Here is just one of the 12 from the link... (All of it is interesting


Reason no. 4: NIV denies Christ as the Creator

This might be a shock to many Christians, but Yahshua or Jesus Christ is the Creator of all things. Now, this is entirely a different topic that I won’t discuss today, but you may simply check out these verses as they prove that Christ is the Creator: Colossians 1:16; John 1:1-3; and Hebrews 11:3.

There’s one particular verse that I want you to take a look at. It’s found in Ephesians 3:9:

“And to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things” (NIV).

“And to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ” (NKJV).

Did you see a big difference? NIV just denied Christ’s Creatorship!

This is a direct assault on Christ’s divine nature and His role as our Creator, Savior, and Messiah.

Now, if you are just using the NIV, how would you know this profound truth written in the pages of your Bible? Surely, NIV users are again eternally denied of this truth.
John 1:3 created-THROUGH Jesus= another did the creating.
Trinitarians twist Gen 1:26=US, but in 27 a singular being created
Prov 8:27-28-HE ( not we) created
Isaiah 40:26-HE( Not we) created.

US = Jehovah and his master worker( Jesus). Jehovah the only one with the power and wisdom to create created things THROUGH his master worker. He created Jesus direct, first and last=the firstborn of all creation.
 
@Keiw1 @Peterlag

How do the Greek Lexicons and Greek Grammarians define this word in Colossians 1:15 ?


NT:4416
prototokos (‎prwto/toko$‎, NT:4416), "firstborn" (from protos, "first," and tikto, "to beget"), is used of Christ as born of the Virgin Mary, Luke 2:7; further, in His relationship to the Father, expressing His priority to, and preeminence over, creation, not in the sense of being the "first" to be born. It is used occasionally of superiority of position in the OT, see Ex 4:22; Deut 21:16,17, the prohibition being against the evil of assigning the privileged position of the "firstborn" to one born subsequently to the "first" child.

The five passages in the NT relating to Christ may be set forth chronologically thus: (a) Col 1:15, where His eternal relationship with the Father is in view, and the clause means both that He was the "Firstborn" before all creation and that He Himself produced creation (the genitive case being objective, as v. 16 makes clear); (b) Col 1:18 and Rev 1:5, in reference to His resurrection; (c) Rom 8:29, His position in relationship to the church; (d) Heb 1:6, RV, His second advent (the RV "when He again bringeth in," puts "again" in the right place, the contrast to His first advent, at His birth, being implied); cf. Ps 89:27. The word is used in the plural, in Heb 11:28, of the firstborn sons in the families of the Egyptians, and in 12:23, of the members of the Church.

Note: With (a) cf. John 1:30, "He was before me," lit., "He was first (protos) of me," i. e., "in regard to me," expressing all that is involved in His preexistence and priority.
(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers.)

NT:4416
The figurative meaning of ‎prwto/toko$ ‎in the messianic title ‎prwto/toko$ pa/sh$ kti/sew$ ‎'firstborn of all creation' (Col 1:15 may be interpreted as 'existing before all creation' (see 13.79) or 'existing superior to all creation' (see 87.47).
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)

13.79 NT:4416‎prwto/toko$‎b, ‎on‎: pertaining to existing prior to something else - 'existing first, existing before.' ‎prwto/toko$ pa/sh$ kti/sew$ ‎'existing before all creation' or 'existing before anything was created' Col 1:15. It is possible to understand ‎prwto/toko$ ‎in Col 1:15 as 'superior in status' (see 87.47). See also discussion at 10.43.(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)


87.47 NT:4416‎prwto/toko$‎c, ‎on‎: pertaining to existing superior to all else of the same or related class - 'superior to, above all.' ‎prwto/toko$ pa/sh$ kti/sew$ ‎'existing superior to all creation' Col 1:15. For another interpretation of ‎prwto/toko$ ‎in Col 1:15, see 13.79;
(from Greek-English Lexicon Based on Semantic Domain. Copyright © 1988 United Bible Societies, New York. Used by permission.)

Colossians 1:15
The expression does not mean that he was "begotten before all creatures," as it is often explained, but refers to the simple fact that he sustains the highest rank over the creation. He is the Son of God. He is the heir of all things. All other creatures are also the "offspring of God;" but he is exalted as the Son of God above all.
(from Barnes' Notes, Electronic Database Copyright © 1997, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)



Colossians 1:15
First-born of every creature (Heb 1:6) - "the first-begotten:" 'begotten of His Father before all worlds' ('Nicene Creed'). 'God, of the substance of His Father, begotten before the worlds; and man, of the substance of His mother, born in the world' ('Athanasian Creed'). Priority and superlative dignity is implied (Ps 89:27). The English version seems to make Christ a creature. Translate [‎proototokos ‎‎pasees ‎‎ktiseoos‎], 'Begotten before every creature,' as the context gives the reason why He is so designated: 'For,' etc. (Trench), Col 1:16-17, "He is before all things." Thus, ‎pasa ‎‎ktisis ‎has not to be taken 'the first-begotten of all creatures,' but in its strict sense, 'before every creature.' "First-begotten" marks at once His eternal priority and His condescending to brotherhood with us (Rom 8:29). "Only-begotten" marks His relation to the Father by generation from everlasting. This expression is used by Origen (so far is the Greek from favouring Arian views) to mark Christ's Godhead, in contrast with His manhood, (B. ii. , contra Cels.) Since He was before "every creature" [the genitive of the point of view, 'in comparison to' far or long before: John 1:15,30, protosmou; John 15:18, etc.], He cannot be a creature Himself, but the Creator. The Greek is against Alford's translation, 'the first-born of all creation.'
(from Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown Commentary, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1997, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)



Colossians 1:15
The first born proototokos‎. Predicate adjective again and anarthrous. This passage is parallel to the ‎Logos ‎passage in John 1:1-18 and to Heb 1:1-4 as well as Phil 2:5-11 in which these three writers (John, author of Hebrews, Paul) give the high conception of the Person of Christ (both Son of God and Son of Man) found also in the Synoptic Gospels and even in Q (the Father, the Son). This word (the Septuagint and the New Testament) can no longer be considered purely "Biblical" (Thayer), since it is found in inscriptions (Deissmann, Light, etc., p. 91) and in the papyri (Moulton and Milligan, Vocabulary, etc.). See it already in Luke 2:7 and Codex Sinaiticus (a) for Matt 1:25; Rom 8:29. The use of this word does not show what Arius argued that Paul regarded Christ as a creature like "all creation" ‎pasees ‎‎ktiseoos‎, by metonomy the act regarded as result). It is rather the comparative (superlative) force of ‎prootos ‎that is used (first-born of all creation) as in Col 1:18; Rom 8:29; Heb 1:6; 12:23; Rev 1:5. Paul is here refuting the Gnostics who pictured Christ as one of the aeons by placing him before "all creation" (angels and men). Like ‎eikoon ‎we find ‎proototokos ‎in the Alexandrian vocabulary of the Logos teaching (Philo) as well as in the Septuagint. Paul takes both words to help express the deity of Jesus Christ in his relation to the Father as ‎eikoon ‎(Image) and to the universe as ‎proototokos ‎(First-born).
(from Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1997, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament. Copyright © 1985 by Broadman Press.)



Colossians 1:15
The first-born of every creature proototokos ‎‎pasees ‎‎ktiseoos‎. The English Revised Version (1885): "the first-born of all creation." For "first-born," see the note at Rev 1:5; for "creation," at 2 Cor 5:17. As "image" points to "revelation," so "first-born" points to "eternal pre-existence." Even the English Revised Version is a little ambiguous, for we must carefully avoid any suggestion that Christ was the first of created things, which is contradicted by the following words: "in Him were all things created." The true sense is, "born before the creation." Compare "before all things," Col 1:17. This fact of priority implies "sovereignty." He is exalted above all thrones, etc., and all things are "unto" ‎eis ‎Him, as they are elsewhere declared to be unto God. Compare Ps 89:27; Heb 1:2.
(from Vincent's Word Studies in the New Testament, Electronic Database. Copyright © 1997, 2003, 2005, 2006 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)



Colossians 1:15
The word "firstborn" is ‎prœtotokos‎. The Greek word implied two things, priority to all creation and sovereignty over all creation. In the first meaning we see the absolute preexistence of the Logos. Since our Lord existed before all created things, He must be uncreated. Since He is uncreated, He is eternal. Since He is eternal, He is God. Since He is God, He cannot be one of the emanations from deity of which the Gnostic speaks, even though He proceeds from God the Father as the Son. In the second meaning we see that He is the natural ruler, the acknowledged head of God's household. Thus again, He cannot be one of the emanations from deity in whom the divine essence is present but diffused. He is Lord of creation.

(from Wuest's Word Studies from the Greek New Testament, Copyright 1940-55 by Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co. Copyrights © renewed 1968-73 by Jeannette I. Wuest. All rights reserved.)


NT:4416
13.79 NT:4416‎prwto/toko$‎b, ‎on‎: pertaining to existing prior to something else - 'existing first, existing before.' ‎prwto/toko$ pa/sh$ kti/sew$ ‎'existing before all creation' or 'existing before anything was created' Col 1:15. It is possible to understand ‎prwto/toko$ ‎in Col 1:15 as 'superior in status' (see 87.47). See also discussion at 10.43.(Louw and Nida Greek-English Lexicon )

hope this helps !!!
They have to define it like that. Truth proves they are false religions. They cannot teach truth on the matter. ALL creation occurred at the beginning=100% fact, Jesus is the firstborn of all creation= created direct, first and last all other things created-THROUGH him.
 
Yeah.... right.


Just admit that you love "Jehovah" more than Jesus. You believe you're required to love the Father more than Jesus. The Father doesn't see it that way. Men see it that way. Men are so corrupted in their own choice they can't see the Perfection that exists between the Father and the Son. The Father isn't concerned with you loving Jesus just as much as you love Him.

God is not a man that he should lie............
Jesus points his to his God and Father. Matt 22:37- Jesus said--You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart, and with your whole soul, and with your whole mind.
So you are correct, Jehovah comes first just as he did in Jesus' life, our example to follow.
 
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