The Bahá'í Faith: Teachings, History, and Practices

[Pancho Frijoles]

A major difference is that Christ, as God, spiritually and literally dwells in our hearts. Christ can literally and spiritually dwell in our hearts only if he is God.

Why would you need Jesus to dwell literally in your heart?
You already have the Holy Spirit promised by Him. You are temple of the Holy Spirit.
What else do you need?
What would be the difference for you if you live in the presence of Holy Spirit or in the literal presence of Jesus Christ?

As a marginal note, you believe that Jesus has right now a physical body. Don’t you?
Then, you don’t believe He dwells literally in your heart anyway.

That's not just world's apart, that's galaxies apart.

I don’t see how that could be galaxies apart. If that were the case, your lifestyle would be galaxies apart from my lifestyle.
For example, I would be like Amon, the Nazi General, making every effort to kill and torture Jews, and you like Oskar Schindler, making every effort to save them and comfort them.

To me it is just a one meter distance. Enough for me to reach out and touch your shoulder.

 

[synergy]

Why would you need Jesus to dwell literally in your heart?
You already have the Holy Spirit promised by Him. You are temple of the Holy Spirit.
What else do you need?
What would be the difference for you if you live in the presence of Holy Spirit or in the literal presence of Jesus Christ?

As a marginal note, you believe that Jesus has right now a physical body. Don’t you?
Then, you don’t believe He dwells literally in your heart anyway.



I don’t see how that could be galaxies apart. If that were the case, your lifestyle would be galaxies apart from my lifestyle.
For example, I would be like Amon, the Nazi General, making every effort to kill and torture Jews, and you like Oskar Schindler, making every effort to save them and comfort them.

To me it is just a one meter distance. Enough for me to reach out and touch your shoulder.

If Christ does not dwell spiritually in your heart through faith right now then we are indeed galaxies apart.

If the Spirit that dwells in you is not of Christ but is of Muhammed then we are universes apart.

(Eph 3:17) that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

Are you born again?

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

If Christ does not dwell spiritually in your heart through faith right now then we are indeed galaxies apart.

I agree with you.
We don’t need Christ to dwell literally in us. But certainly, we need it spiritually: we need to have what Paul calls “the mind of Christ”.
That is achieved by the action of the Holy Spirit.

Are you born again?

Yes.

 

[synergy]

I agree with you.
We don’t need Christ to dwell literally in us. But certainly, we need it spiritually: we need to have what Paul calls “the mind of Christ”.
That is achieved by the action of the Holy Spirit.


Yes.

Excellent! So then you know that Bahá’u’lláh and Muhammad are dead, buried, and gone whereas Jesus Christ is alive and dwells in our hearts. That proves that Jesus is omnipresent, as only God can be, which proves he is God. Everyone else who wants or attempts to usurp Jesus, like Muhammad who calls himself the last prophet, are no better than outright imposters and thieves. If you haven't come to that conclusion then Houston we have a problem.

 

[civic]

Excellent! So then you know that Bahá’u’lláh and Muhammad are dead, buried, and gone whereas Jesus Christ is alive and dwells in our hearts. That proves that Jesus is omnipresent, as only God can be, which proves he is God. Everyone else who wants or attempts to usurp Jesus, like Muhammad who calls himself the last prophet, are no better than outright imposters and thieves. If you haven't come to that conclusion then Houston we have a problem.

How can Christ dwell in every believers heart if He is not God ?

Impossible

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Excellent! So then you know that Bahá’u’lláh and Muhammad are dead, buried, and gone whereas Jesus Christ is alive and dwells in our hearts.

We believe that all Messengers of God are alive and can “dwell in our hearts”, when we adopt their mindset, when their message becomes essential to our lives.
Although they all had their individual historical identity, they all…

“…abide in the same tabernacle,
soar in the same heaven,
are seated upon the same throne,
utter the same speech,
and proclaim the same Faith.”

(Bahá’u’lláh)

 

[Runningman]

How can Christ dwell in every believers heart if He is not God ?

Impossible

Can you be misunderstanding something? I don't want to correct you, but you need to discover this on your own if you're going to learn anything. You're too proud a man to be taught anything from us.

So let me put this in perspective. Paul isn't an omniscient spirit is he? And did you know Christ is not Jesus' name but means an anointing?

Colossians 1 (NIV)
5For though I am absent from you in body, I am present with you in spirit and delight to see how disciplined you are and how firm your faith in Christ is.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

How can Christ dwell in every believers heart if He is not God ?

Impossible

Through the Holy Spirit.

Let’s start recognizing that “heart” is a metaphor. Christ does not dwell within the myocardium or ventricles, right?
“Dwell” is another metaphor. Nobody thinks that Christ sleeps, has breakfast, takes a shower and watches TV in our brain. Right?

So, “dwell in our hearts” is a metaphor to be understood spiritually.
When we have adopted the mindset of Christ, then Christ’s message and love and attitude directs our lives, and se can say that Christ lives in us.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

Can you be misunderstanding something? I don't want to correct you, but you need to discover this on your own if you're going to learn anything. You're too proud a man to be taught anything from us.

So let me put this in perspective. Paul isn't an omniscient spirit is he? And did you know Christ is not Jesus' name but means an anointing?

Colossians 1 (NIV)
5For though I am absent from you in body, I am present with you in spirit and delight to see how disciplined you are and how firm your faith in Christ is.

This is a very good example, Runningman,
Paul was with the brethren in spirit. But the brethren did not take these words literally.
Jesus told his apostles that He would not be with them anymore, but at the same time, that He would stay with them always, until “the end of the world”. So, Jesus is no longer here in a literal sense, but is with us in a different sense.

 

[Runningman]

This is a very good example, Runningman,
Paul was with the brethren in spirit. But the brethren did not take these words literally.
Jesus told his apostles that He would not be with them anymore, but at the same time, that He would stay with them always, until “the end of the world”. So, Jesus is no longer here in a literal sense, but is with us in a different sense.

I mean, we could build a doctrine about Paul being a spirit man. They do the same thing to Jesus and Paul and Jesus even did many of the same miracles. A concept can be take way too far.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

I mean, we could build a doctrine about Paul being a spirit man. They do the same thing to Jesus and Paul and Jesus even did many of the same miracles. A concept can be take way too far.

that’s why we should use common sense and prioritize practical thinking over speculative thinking.

Bahá’u’lláh warned us about yearning for the kind of inowledge that “begins with words and ends with words”. That is, a knowledge that is not derived from acts in the real life and does not impact our acts in our real life.

For those who believe that Jesus is God, as well as for those who do not believe Jesus is God, the need is the same. We need to live the life of Christ. To follow his steps is to remain in Him.
Whoever says he remains in Him ought to walk as He walked. (1 Jhn 2:6)

 

[mikesw]

that’s why we should use common sense and prioritize practical thinking over speculative thinking.

Bahá’u’lláh warned us about yearning for the kind of inowledge that “begins with words and ends with words”. That is, a knowledge that is not derived from acts in the real life and does not impact our acts in our real life.

SO he denies accepting what he says.

 

[synergy]

We believe that all Messengers of God are alive and can “dwell in our hearts”, when we adopt their mindset, when their message becomes essential to our lives.
Although they all had their individual historical identity, they all…

“…abide in the same tabernacle,
soar in the same heaven,
are seated upon the same throne,
utter the same speech,
and proclaim the same Faith.”

(Bahá’u’lláh)

You may allow the spirit that is of Muhammed to dwell in you. Christians allow the Spirit that is of Christ to dwell in them.

 

[mikesw]

We believe that all Messengers of God are alive and can “dwell in our hearts”, when we adopt their mindset, when their message becomes essential to our lives.
Although they all had their individual historical identity, they all…

“…abide in the same tabernacle,
soar in the same heaven,
are seated upon the same throne,
utter the same speech,
and proclaim the same Faith.”

(Bahá’u’lláh)

Christ is the only one resurrected. All those other guys died and were left dead. I would prefer life and Christ over the alternatives. It does not make sense to seek after those other guys who just died and were not resurrected and seen by over 500 witnesses. How can you argue for following some false person who has no glory like Christ?

 

[synergy]

Christ is the only one resurrected. All those other guys died and were left dead. I would prefer life and Christ over the alternatives.

There are many spirits out there masquerading as the Holy Spirit. I'm sure there's a (demonic) spirit of Muhammed out there ready and willing to dwell in those who fervently believe in Muhammed.

 

[mikesw]

There are many spirits out there masquerading as the Holy Spirit. I'm sure there's a (demonic) spirit of Muhammed out there ready and willing to dwell in those who fervently believe in Muhammed.

Probably. But I don't think there is anything like that promised to the adherents.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

There are many spirits out there masquerading as the Holy Spirit. I'm sure there's a (demonic) spirit of Muhammed out there ready and willing to dwell in those who fervently believe in Muhammed.

Jesus taught that Beelzebub cannot masquerade the Holy Spirit.

 

[Runningman]

that’s why we should use common sense and prioritize practical thinking over speculative thinking.

Bahá’u’lláh warned us about yearning for the kind of inowledge that “begins with words and ends with words”. That is, a knowledge that is not derived from acts in the real life and does not impact our acts in our real life.

For those who believe that Jesus is God, as well as for those who do not believe Jesus is God, the need is the same. We need to live the life of Christ. To follow his steps is to remain in Him.
Whoever says he remains in Him ought to walk as He walked. (1 Jhn 2:6)

I think it’s sometimes a matter of belief meets reality and they aren’t always compatible. Anyone can believe anything, but reality doesn’t care about what we believe. Words have meaning. History exists. Facts, reason, and logic are all independent of what we prefer to believe. Some can be reasoned with, some can’t be reasoned with.

There’s far too much to say about the study of the human psyche. Often people don’t know enough to know that they don’t know what they are talking about, but confidence can exist independently of whether or not it’s appropriate.

Yes we should follow what Jesus said. You would think that would settle it, but it doesn’t. More proof that belief can take precedent over practical/critical thinking.

 

[mikesw]

Jesus taught that Beelzebub cannot masquerade the Holy Spirit.

uh no. Jesus was condemning the Pharisees for denying Christ's work by the Spirit of God. We know further that Satan can make himself appear as an angle of light which could allow someone to be enticed to possession by a demon and think they have something special. So you are mistaken on several counts. This verse also speaks of the Spirit being of God too, so we address key point of the Trinitarian discussion.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

I think it’s sometimes a matter of belief meets reality and they aren’t always compatible. Anyone can believe anything, but reality doesn’t care about what we believe. Words have meaning. History exists. Facts, reason, and logic are all independent of what we prefer to believe. Some can be reasoned with, some can’t be reasoned with.

There’s far too much to say about the study of the human psyche. Often people don’t know enough to know that they don’t know what they are talking about, but confidence can exist independently of whether or not it’s appropriate.

Yes we should follow what Jesus said. You would think that would settle it, but it doesn’t. More proof that belief can take precedent over practical/critical thinking.

Provocative insights, my Friend.
Yes, sometimes we quarrel as if our words had the capacity to shape God.
We even deceive ourselves thinking we are defending God or being the spokesperson of God.
He is who He is, independently of our arrogance and ignorance.

God bless you tonight and forever, Runningman!