Show me the Father

70AD said:
To see Jesus is the same as seeing the Father. Both of them are God.
Click to expand...
That's what I believe. I wonder how that's going to work in heaven? That kind of blows my mind but I know it's going to be awesome. It'll be the same way When we look at Jesus we'll see the Triune God.
 
Obadiah said:
Oh I like that that's a good one. That's how to keep a positive attitude. Your absolutely right there's no way in the world we could ever be equal to Christ. Just off the top of my head if I had to endure what he endured to ensure our salvation... guess what? We would all be going to that real hot place with all that torment going on.
Click to expand...
Yep 👍🏼
 
Soyeong said:
The attitudes that we show through works that we choose to do show what we believe about the attributes that the Father is. For example, our good works testify about the Father's goodness, which is why they bring glory to Him (Matthew 5:13), so doing good works is the way to believe that the Father is good, and is correspondingly true about showing who the Father is by doing works that testify about His attributes, such as holiness, righteousness, justice, mercy, faithfulness in obedience to His instructions.

John 14:8-11 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.

The Son is the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15) and the radiance of God's glory and the exact image of His nature (Hebrews 1:3), so for example, righteousness is an invisible attitude of the Father that we can't see, but the Son is righteousness made flesh in a form that we can see, which is why he said that that whoever has seen him has seen the Father. Jesus showed the righteousness of the Father was in him through his works by walking in sinless obedience to the Torah, so his works supported the belief that he is in the Father. Likewise, this is why those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), which is testifying about Christ's attributes being in us through follow his example of walking in obedience to the Torah.
Click to expand...
'Then said they unto Him,
"What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?"
Jesus answered and said unto them,
"This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him Whom He hath sent."'
(Joh 6:28-29)

:)
 
praise_yeshua said:
1. Jesus was born under the penalty of the law. The requirements of every law are fulfilled with the death of Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
Jesus was born under the law, so he was obligated to obey it. To fulfill the law means "to cause God's will (as made known through His law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo. After Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in Matthew 5, he then proceeded to fulfill it six times throughout the rest of the chapter by teaching how to correctly obey it as it should be, and he did not mention anything about his death anywhere in the chapter

praise_yeshua said:
2. Jesus was IMPECCABLE. The Lawgiver has no requirement to live under the law given to His subjects. You are ignoring this. Prove He had such a requirement. The Father's commandments and requirements of Christ are different than the requirements of the law. That is why Jesus didn't say "I have always keep the law of Moses". Provide a quote wherein Jesus Christ said specifically that He had keep the law given to Moses. Prove it.

Lets stop right here. We will take this line by line or we can just agree to disagree.
Click to expand...
The King of Israel was still requires to obey God's law, so Jesus did not have an exception. Again, he was circumcised on the 8th day as a member of the Mosaic Covenant, so he was obligated to obey the Mosaic Law. Moreover, God's laws are not arbitrary, but were given to teach us how to experience and testify about His nature and God does not act in a way that is contrary to His nature. It is by God's law that we have knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20), so saying that Jesus is sinless is saying that he lived in perfect obedience to it. In Matthew 5:17-19, Jesus said that he came not to abolish the Law and the Prophets, but to fulfill them, so he claimed to obey it.
 
Soyeong said:
The attitudes that we show through works that we choose to do show what we believe about the attributes that the Father is. For example, our good works testify about the Father's goodness, which is why they bring glory to Him (Matthew 5:13), so doing good works is the way to believe that the Father is good, and is correspondingly true about showing who the Father is by doing works that testify about His attributes, such as holiness, righteousness, justice, mercy, faithfulness in obedience to His instructions.

John 14:8-11 Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else believe on account of the works themselves.

The Son is the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15) and the radiance of God's glory and the exact image of His nature (Hebrews 1:3), so for example, righteousness is an invisible attitude of the Father that we can't see, but the Son is righteousness made flesh in a form that we can see, which is why he said that that whoever has seen him has seen the Father. Jesus showed the righteousness of the Father was in him through his works by walking in sinless obedience to the Torah, so his works supported the belief that he is in the Father. Likewise, this is why those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6), which is testifying about Christ's attributes being in us through follow his example of walking in obedience to the Torah.
Click to expand...
Do you affirm the Impeccability of Christ ?
 
civic said:
Do you affirm the Impeccability of Christ ?
Click to expand...
I think that it is much greater to have the ability to sin and to choose to overcome it than to not have the ability to sin and manage to remain sinless. What is the point of the temptations of Christ if he didn't have the ability to be tempted?
 
Soyeong said:
I think that it is much greater to have the ability to sin and to choose to overcome it than to not have the ability to sin and manage to remain sinless. What is the point of the temptations of Christ if he didn't have the ability to be tempted?
Click to expand...
There are two sides to this interesting question. It is important to remember that this is not a question of whether Jesus sinned. Both sides agree, as the Bible clearly says, that Jesus did not sin (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Peter 2:22). The question is whether Jesus could have sinned. Those who hold to “impeccability” believe that Jesus could not have sinned. Those who hold to “peccability” believe that Jesus could have sinned, but did not. Which view is correct? The clear teaching of Scripture is that Jesus was impeccable—Jesus could not have sinned. If He could have sinned, He would still be able to sin today because He retains the same essence He did while living on earth. He is the God-Man and will forever remain so, having full deity and full humanity so united in one person as to be indivisible. To believe that Jesus could sin is to believe that God could sin. “For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him” (Colossians 1:19). Colossians 2:9 adds, “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”

Although Jesus is fully human, He was not born with the sinful nature that we are born with. He certainly was tempted in the same way we are, in that temptations were put before Him by Satan, yet He remained sinless because God is incapable of sinning. It is against His very nature (Matthew 4:1; Hebrews 2:18, 4:15; James 1:13). Sin is by definition a trespass of the Law. God created the Law, and the Law is by nature what God would or would not do; therefore, sin is anything that God would not do by His very nature.

To be tempted is not, in and of itself, sinful. A person could tempt you with something you have no desire to do, such as committing murder or participating in sexual perversions. You probably have no desire whatsoever to take part in these actions, but you were still tempted because someone placed the possibility before you. There are at least two definitions for the word “tempted”:

1) To have a sinful proposition suggested to you by someone or something outside yourself or by your own sin nature.

2) To consider actually participating in a sinful act and the possible pleasures and consequences of such an act to the degree that the act is already taking place in your mind.

The first definition does not describe a sinful act/thought; the second does. When you dwell upon a sinful act and consider how you might be able to bring it to pass, you have crossed the line of sin. Jesus was tempted in the fashion of definition one except that He was never tempted by a sin nature because it did not exist within Him. Satan proposed certain sinful acts to Jesus, but He had no inner desire to participate in the sin. Therefore, He was tempted like we are but remained sinless.

Those who hold to peccability believe that, if Jesus could not have sinned, He could not have truly experienced temptation, and therefore could not truly empathize with our struggles and temptations against sin. We have to remember that one does not have to experience something in order to understand it. God knows everything about everything. While God has never had the desire to sin, and has most definitely never sinned, God knows and understands what sin is. God knows and understands what it is like to be tempted. Jesus can empathize with our temptations because He knows, not because He has “experienced” all the same things we have.

Jesus knows what it is like to be tempted, but He does not know what it is like to sin. This does not prevent Him from assisting us. We are tempted with sins that are common to man (1 Corinthians 10:13). These sins generally can be boiled down to three different types: “the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life” (1 John 2:16 NKJV). Examine the temptation and sin of Eve, as well as the temptation of Jesus, and you will find that the temptations for each came from these three categories. Jesus was tempted in every way and in every area that we are, but remained perfectly holy. Although our corrupt natures will have the inner desire to participate in some sins, we have the ability, through Christ, to overcome sin because we are no longer slaves to sin but rather slaves of God (Romans 6, especially verses 2 and 16-22).Got?

hope this helps !!!
 
Soyeong said:
I agree that that refers to Jesus doing the will of the Father and the Father has made His will known through what He has commanded in the Torah (Psalms 40:8), which is the way to express His attributes like holiness, righteousness, and goodness, but is not referring to his physical appearance.

Yes, pictures of Jesus tend to adopt the ethnic traits of that region, such as with pictures of Jesus in Japan having slanted eyes or with pictures of Jesus in South Africa having dark skin. Part of the reason for this is with missionaries wanting to present Jesus in a manner that the people of that region are more likely to accept rather than present him as being a foreigner. For example, there are people who dismiss Christianity because they consider it to be a "white man's religion" because of how is he commonly portrayed in art as being a white European
Click to expand...

Jesus broke bread and said, "this is my body."

They had no refined white bread back then.
Breads were whole grain having some shade of brown.
And with matzoh for the Passover the ancient stoves burned the surface a little...

https://www.google.com/search?newwi...UHyDwUQ0pQJegQIDRAB&biw=1536&bih=706&dpr=1.25
 
praise_yeshua said:
So when are you going to do all of these wonderful works that Jesus did?

You don't even realize that such teachings are self defeating. You know why? Because you can't do what you claim is required.

Aren't you looking to be equal to the Son?
Click to expand...

we are weak
but soon He will restore us to our
paradise
 

Similar threads

Donald
Catholic Daily Readings
Replies
0
Views
23
Donald
Donald
Complete
John 14:
Replies
8
Views
138
Complete
Complete
N
“It Became Him”
Replies
0
Views
13
NetChaplain
N
L.A.M.B.
Who Is God?
Replies
3
Views
95
101G
101G
David Koberstein
Letting Our Tassels Show
Replies
0
Views
38
David Koberstein
David Koberstein
Back
Top Bottom