Responsibilities to God and His Christ

[jeremiah1five]

So, once again you are indicating no one outside of being a Hebraic Jew will be saved.

Do not backpedal on this... your words are "Gentiles are OUTSIDE the grace of God."

Eph 2: 8-9 says
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

search assist says " one cannot be saved without God's grace, as salvation is understood to be a gift from God that cannot be earned through human efforts or works. It is through God's grace that individuals receive forgiveness and eternal life."

you say that only applies to the Hebraic Jews....

Alrighty then.... By your words you are in agreement with the predestined people on here BUT you apply that to only the Hebraic Jew.

KINDLY EXPLAIN THE MEANING OF THE FOLLOWING SCRIPTURE....

From Romans 11:11-31

11:11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous.

Answer this please..... Why if grace is only for the Hebraic Jews.... I'll even include other Jews in this.... but Paul, who was Saul says salvation has come to the Gentiles.

God , of course cannot lie.... but Paul who was Saul could....

Did Saul lie?

If not, please explain that verse from Pail who was "Saul".... the one YOU follow so closely?

Your error is that you take "Gentiles" in the NT to mean "non-Hebrew Gentiles" and it does not refer to Gentiles. It refers to mixed-race Jews WHO GREW UP GENTILE. The Israelites did not accept Samaritans as true Jew but as something less. That's why they didn't have anything to do with Samaritans nor with Gentiles.

When you identify "Gentiles" as non-Hebrew Gentiles then you are teaching Jesus lied and that He came to destroy the Law of Moses NOT FULFILL IT. Any change in the Law of Moses would destroy the Law of Moses. Not even God can change the Law of Moses. For any change would destroy the Law of Moses.

In order to claim non-Hebrew Gentiles are being referred to in the NT when it says "Gentiles" is to prove Gentiles were under the Law and atoned by the animal sacrifices throughout the centuries and every year on Yom Kippur. You would have to prove that Egyptians were also atoned the night the first Passover was observed and there is no Scripture that includes Egyptians let alone any Gentiles. Jesus didn't come to add Gentiles to the Law and then to sacrifice Himself for them and Israel. Jesus said He came to fulfill the Law and this means He, like the animal that was sacrificed yearly for the sins of Israel, He would substitute Himself for the animal sacrifice under the Law and die to atone the sins of the children of Israel. If Gentiles were not atoned along with Israel under the Law, then Jesus didn't add Gentiles nor did He die for Gentiles.

So, unless you can post a Scripture under the Law where God says non-Hebrews are also added to the Law for their atonement then Gentiles are outside the grace of God. God doesn't add to the Bible so why do you do it? Adding to the Bible - or the Law - destroys the Law. But it is impossible to add to the Bible. God doesn't do it, Christ doesn't do it, the Spirit doesn't do it. Only humans think they can do it.
They are wrong.

 

[TibiasDad]

You have been indoctrinated in false Constantinian Gentile theology.

Lev 16:29“This is to be a lasting ordinance for you: On the tenth day of the seventh month you must deny yourselves and not do any work—whether native-born or a foreigner residing among you— 30because on this day atonement will be made for you, to cleanse you. Then, before the Lord, you will be clean from all your sins.


Doug

 

[jeremiah1five]

So, once again you are indicating no one outside of being a Hebraic Jew will be saved.

Do not backpedal on this... your words are "Gentiles are OUTSIDE the grace of God."

Eph 2: 8-9 says
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

search assist says " one cannot be saved without God's grace, as salvation is understood to be a gift from God that cannot be earned through human efforts or works. It is through God's grace that individuals receive forgiveness and eternal life."

you say that only applies to the Hebraic Jews....

Alrighty then.... By your words you are in agreement with the predestined people on here BUT you apply that to only the Hebraic Jew.

KINDLY EXPLAIN THE MEANING OF THE FOLLOWING SCRIPTURE....

From Romans 11:11-31

11:11 I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous.

Answer this please..... Why if grace is only for the Hebraic Jews.... I'll even include other Jews in this.... but Paul, who was Saul says salvation has come to the Gentiles.

God , of course cannot lie.... but Paul who was Saul could....

Did Saul lie?

If not, please explain that verse from Pail who was "Saul".... the one YOU follow so closely?

You add Gentiles to Israel'
s salvation. Post the Scripture from the Law where God says Gentiles are also atoned alongside Israel by the sacrificial lamb.

I'm waiting.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Acts13:46Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. 47For this is what the Lord has commanded us:

“ ‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ”
48When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.
49The word of the Lord spread through the whole region. 50But the Jewish leaders incited the God-fearing women of high standing and the leading men of the city. They stirred up persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them from their region. 51So they shook the dust off their feet as a warning to them and went to Iconium. 52And the disciples were filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit.

Why would Paul say Gentiles if it meant only Samaritians, who were still “Jewish” by blood.? “Ethnos” does not mean half-Jews, it means “nations” (literally tribes of other people) in contrast to Israel as a nation.

Doug

Show me under the Law where God says Gentiles are also atoned of their sins along with Israel by the sacrificial animal. If you can't provide the Scripture from under the Law (Pentateuch) then you are adding to the Bible things it doesn't say.

 

[TibiasDad]

Your error is that you take "Gentiles" in the NT to mean "non-Hebrew Gentiles" and it does not refer to Gentiles. It refers to mixed-race Jews WHO GREW UP GENTILE.

Care to cite your sources that claim this?

A Google search for Gentiles shows:

A Gentile is
a person who is not Jewish, commonly representing all non-Jewish nations and peoples. Rooted in Latin and biblical Hebrew (goy), it distinguishes non-Jews from the covenant people of Israel. The term is used in religious contexts (Bible, Mormonism) to define non-believers, sometimes implying pagans or outsiders.
Vocabulary.com +4
Usage Examples & Contexts

• Biblical Context:
  The New Testament discusses the partnership between "Jewish and Gentile believers". It frequently contrasts the two, such as Paul’s writings regarding the "futility of their thinking" among Gentiles.
  • Modern Context: Often used to distinguish non-Jews from Jewish people, such as during holiday discussions or cultural exchanges.
  • Other Religious Uses:Mormonism uses "Gentile" to refer to anyone who is not a member of their faith.
  • Idiomatic: Historically used to describe "heathen" or "pagan" peoples who do not worship the God of the Bible, notes Catholic Answers.

 

[TibiasDad]

Show me under the Law where God says Gentiles are also atoned of their sins along with Israel by the sacrificial animal. If you can't provide the Scripture from under the Law (Pentateuch) then you are adding to the Bible things it doesn't say.

Lev 16:29“This is to be a lasting ordinance for you: On the tenth day of the seventh month you must deny yourselves and not do any work—whether native-born or a foreigner residing among you— 30because on this day atonement will be made for you, to cleanse you. Then, before the Lord, you will be clean from all your sins.


Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Synonyms and Related Terms

• Goy/Goyim: Hebrew for "nation" or "non-Jew".
• Non-Jew: The most direct, neutral modern synonym.
• Heathen/Pagan: Historically used, often implying a lack of faith in the Abrahamic God.
• Stranger/Foreigner: Refers to someone outside the covenant of Israel.
  
  
  Wikipedia +4

Etymology
The term originates from the Latin gentilis, meaning "fellow countryman or family member". It evolved from the Latin Vulgate translation of the Hebrew goyim and Greek ethne, which literally mean "the nations".

 

[TibiasDad]

Synonyms and Related Terms

• Goy/Goyim: Hebrew for "nation" or "non-Jew".
• Non-Jew: The most direct, neutral modern synonym.
• Heathen/Pagan: Historically used, often implying a lack of faith in the Abrahamic God.
• Stranger/Foreigner: Refers to someone outside the covenant of Israel.
  
  
  Wikipedia +4

Etymology
The term originates from the Latin gentilis, meaning "fellow countryman or family member". It evolved from the Latin Vulgate translation of the Hebrew goyimand Greek ethne, which literally mean "the nations".

 

[jeremiah1five]

Lev 16:29“This is to be a lasting ordinance for you: On the tenth day of the seventh month you must deny yourselves and not do any work—whether native-born or a foreigner residing among you— 30because on this day atonement will be made for you, to cleanse you. Then, before the Lord, you will be clean from all your sins.


Doug

Moses is speaking to the twelve tribes of the children of Israel. Leviticus is TO the children of Israel.

 

[TibiasDad]

It refers to mixed-race Jews WHO GREW UP GENTILE.

Wikipedia

Gentile (/ˈdʒɛntaɪl/) is a word that today usually means someone who is not Jewish. Other groups that also claim Israelite heritage, notably Mormons, have historically used the term gentileto describe outsiders. More rarely, the term is used as a synonym for pagan. As a term used to describe non-members of a religious/ethnic group, gentile is sometimes compared to other words used to describe the "outgroup" in other cultures(see List of terms for ethnic out-groups).

In some translations of the Quran, gentile is used to translate an Arabic word that refers to non-Jews and/or people not versed in or not able to read scripture.

The English word gentile derives from the Latin word gentilis, meaning "of or belonging to the same people or nation" (from Latingēns 'clan, tribe, people, family'). Archaic and specialist uses of the word gentile in English (particularly in linguistics) still carry this meaning of "relating to a people or nation." The development of the word to principally mean "non-Jew" in English is entwined with the history of Bible translations from Hebrew and Greek into Latin and English. Its meaning has also been shaped by Rabbinical Jewish thought and Christian theology.

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Moses is speaking to the twelve tribes of the children of Israel. Leviticus is TO the children of Israel.

He includes the foreigners among them. He doesn’t say it if for Israelites alone. The non Jewish population have to abide by the sabbath regulations just as the native Jewish population in order to be atoned for. He doesn’t say that he atoned for Jewish sins alone, he lumps all people in the land. For God is no respecter of persons. In Christ there are no designations of class.

Doug

 

[TibiasDad]

Show me under the Law where God says Gentiles are also atoned of their sins along with Israel by the sacrificial animal. If you can't provide the Scripture from under the Law (Pentateuch) then you are adding to the Bible things it doesn't say.

Tom and I have both shown you repeatedly that all types of people are included in the atonement; and I showed you from Leviticus 16, which I believe is the first mention of the sacrifice being instituted. Both Jew and Gentiles are given instructions in preparation for the event.

Doug

 

[jeremiah1five]

Wikipedia

Gentile (/ˈdʒɛntaɪl/) is a word that today usually means someone who is not Jewish. Other groups that also claim Israelite heritage, notably Mormons, have historically used the term gentileto describe outsiders. More rarely, the term is used as a synonym for pagan. As a term used to describe non-members of a religious/ethnic group, gentile is sometimes compared to other words used to describe the "outgroup" in other cultures(see List of terms for ethnic out-groups).

In some translations of the Quran, gentile is used to translate an Arabic word that refers to non-Jews and/or people not versed in or not able to read scripture.

The English word gentile derives from the Latin word gentilis, meaning "of or belonging to the same people or nation" (from Latingēns 'clan, tribe, people, family'). Archaic and specialist uses of the word gentile in English (particularly in linguistics) still carry this meaning of "relating to a people or nation." The development of the word to principally mean "non-Jew" in English is entwined with the history of Bible translations from Hebrew and Greek into Latin and English. Its meaning has also been shaped by Rabbinical Jewish thought and Christian theology.

Doug

You're giving me secular definitions. You're also giving me Gentile definitions.
The Old Testament was written in Hebrew. It's an ancient language.

 

[jeremiah1five]

He includes the foreigners among them. He doesn’t say it if for Israelites alone. The non Jewish population have to abide by the sabbath regulations just as the native Jewish population in order to be atoned for. He doesn’t say that he atoned for Jewish sins alone, he lumps all people in the land. For God is no respecter of persons. In Christ there are no designations of class.

Doug

The word refers to the visitor of another tribe.
Pay attention:

"...whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourneth among you" Leviticus 16:29.

stranger: [Strong's #1616]

Hebrew Word: גֵּיר
Transliteration: gêyr
Phonetic Pronunciation: gare
Root: from [#1481]

"properly a guest"

It does not mean "Gentile." You are adding to the Bible in order to make it say what YOU want.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Tom and I have both shown you repeatedly that all types of people are included in the atonement; and I showed you from Leviticus 16, which I believe is the first mention of the sacrifice being instituted. Both Jew and Gentiles are given instructions in preparation for the event.

Doug

Again:

The word refers to the visitor of another tribe.
Pay attention:

"...whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourneth among you" Leviticus 16:29.

stranger: [Strong's #1616]

Hebrew Word: גֵּיר
Transliteration: gêyr
Phonetic Pronunciation: gare
Root: from [#1481]

"properly a guest"

It does not mean "Gentile." You are adding to the Bible in order to make it say what YOU want.

 

[TomL]

You really don't "get it" do you?

In order to claim Gentiles are saved or can be saved means they have to first be under the Law and the animal sacrifices that temporarily atoned for the children of Israel every year on Yom Kippur would also atone - temporarily - the sins of Gentiles. Scripture teaches Jesus came to fulfill the Law of Moses. And this is what He did. So, by saying that Gentiles are saved or can be saved by Israel's Messiah is to add to the Bible. There must be precedence. And it must be in the Old Testament Scripture. If it's not chapter and verse, then it is chatter or worse.

You teach Jesus lied about not coming to destroy the Law because NO ONE can change what has been written - not even God - nor can anyone add to the Bible because any addition - although impossible - would destroy the Law and Scripture and there is NOTHING upon which to rest our faith. But know I see you don't understand these things which is why you focus on the NT and reject the OT. You don't know what type and shadow means. You have been indoctrinated in false Constantinian Gentile theology.

What you show do is go back and come under a teacher who knows the Bible and be taught from the Old Testament the "First Principles of the Doctrine of Christ" before you go on to study the NT. On second thought, "don't." You keep believing your false theology. But now I know.

No, no one is saved by animals. Men are saved by faith in Christ.

You are simply ignoring scripture

Salvation is in Christ and faith in him


Eph 2:8–9 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
Rom 10:9–10 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Acts 16:31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
Rom 3:22–24 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
Gal 2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
Acts 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”
Rom 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Titus 3:5–7 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
John 6:47 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
Rom 3:28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
Gal 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
1 John 5:11–12 And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
John 11:25–26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”
Rom 1:16–17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “But the righteous man shall live by faith.”
Phil 3:9 and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith,
2 Tim 1:9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity,
1 Pet 1:5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[FreeInChrist]

You really don't "get it" do you?

In order to claim Gentiles are saved or can be saved means they have to first be under the Law and the animal sacrifices that temporarily atoned for the children of Israel every year on Yom Kippur would also atone - temporarily - the sins of Gentiles. Scripture teaches Jesus came to fulfill the Law of Moses. And this is what He did. So, by saying that Gentiles are saved or can be saved by Israel's Messiah is to add to the Bible.

Then God, Himself.... lied.

And so did "your boy" Saul.... The very one you swoon over everytime you say his name....

Romans 11:11 So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather, through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous.

emphasized by
Romans 11:12 Now if their trespass means riches for the world, and if their failure means riches for the Gentiles, how much more will their full inclusion mean!

In the New Testament, the apostles, particularly Paul, emphasized that salvation is available to both Jews and Gentiles. Paul wrote that through faith in Jesus, both groups can be justified. He stated, "There is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him" (Romans 10:12).

In Acts 10, Peter received a vision from God that led him to understand that Gentiles could receive the gospel. This was a significant moment in affirming that God's grace extends to all.

Paul was specifically called to preach to the Gentiles, highlighting God's intention to include them in His plan of salvation.

And you wonder why I would want to ignore you? Just think about that and the heavenly Father may give you a revelation as to why.

There must be precedence. And it must be in the Old Testament Scripture. If it's not chapter and verse, then it is chatter or worse.

You teach Jesus lied about not coming to destroy the Law because NO ONE can change what has been written - not even God - nor can anyone add to the Bible because any addition - although impossible - would destroy the Law and Scripture and there is NOTHING upon which to rest our faith. But know I see you don't understand these things which is why you focus on the NT and reject the OT. You don't know what type and shadow means. You have been indoctrinated in false Constantinian Gentile theology.

What you show do is go back and come under a teacher who knows the Bible and be taught from the Old Testament the "First Principles of the Doctrine of Christ" before you go on to study the NT. On second thought, "don't." You keep believing your false theology. But now I know.