jeremiah1five
Active Member
See my other reply.
Responsibilities to God and His Christ
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jeremiah1five
Active Member
It's not "whoever" as in anyone, but whoever of the Hebrew people. Jesus was promised to Israel and to Israel He came. He taught Israel in the Law of Moses and as the animal sacrifice was offered to atone the sins of Israel, Jesus was sacrificed to atone for the sins of the children of Israel under the Law.
To teach Jesus died for Gentiles is to teach Jesus changed the Law which means Jesus destroyed the Law and this makes Jesus a sinner and unworthy to be King of Israel and this makes God and Jesus a liar.
Lying is a sin. Who's God going to send to atone for the sins of Jesus for breaking the Law of Moses?
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Tommy, Tommy, Tommy...this is the sixth or seventh reply that mimics your other replies. I'm not going to repeat myself seven times on seven different comments in seven other threads and on the same question.
I answered you in another post.
TibiasDad
Active Member
1) it doesn’t say the Hebrew people, it says whoever believes.
2) You’re moving the goalposts again; you said faith doesn’t have anything to do with the gospel, which my answer disproves. It is the only thing that gets us across the gulf of separation between God and humanity. “By grace are you saved” (that’s God’s part) “through/by means of faith.
Doug
TibiasDad
Active Member
You obviously don’t have the book of Acts, or the writings of Paul in your Bible.
By the way, Jesus fulfilled the law, he ended the need for the law and introduced a new way, a new covenant of his blood! Heb 8:13 says, “By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.”
Doug
It is also the sixth or seventh time your doctrine was refuted, and you did nothing to overturn that truth.
Rather You have denied and ignored verse after verse.
Your so called replies never deal with the actual text
PS
Romans 3:21–26 (LEB) — 21 But now, apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified about by the law and the prophets—22 that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God made publicly available as the mercy seat through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness, because of the passing over of previously committed sins, 26 in the forbearance of God, for the demonstration of his righteousness in the present time, so that he should be just and the one who justifies the person by faith in Jesus.
That would include gentiles.
And so Paul informs
Romans 3:27–31 (LEB) — 27 Therefore, where is boasting? It has been excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28 For we consider a person to be justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of the Jews only? Is he not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, also of the Gentiles, 30 since God is one, who will justify those who are circumcised by faith and those who are uncircumcised through faith.
you just run away from the text
Really just another ignoring of the present text
You have ignored the fact Paul was called by the grace of God to
Gal 1:16to reveal his Son in me in order that I would proclaim the gospel about him among the Gentiles, immediately I did not consult with flesh and blood,
He did so in fact do
Gal 2:2Now I went up there because of a revelation and laid out to them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles, but in private to the influential people, lest somehow I was running, or had run, in vain.
Gal 2:8(for the one who was at work through Peter for his apostleship to the circumcision was at work also through me for the Gentiles),
And His work was approved of by apostles
Gal 2:9and when James and Cephas and John—those thought to be pillars—acknowledged the grace given to me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, in order that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcision.
He was also given help to continue his work with the Gentiles
Gal 2:12For before certain people came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles, but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, because he was afraid of those who were of the circumcision,
While just as you do, some Jews denied the Gentile fellowship
Gal 2:14But when I saw that they were not being straightforward with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of them all, “If you, although you are a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you try to compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?”
Paul however noted you both are not being straightforward with the truth of the gospel
Gal 3:8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, proclaimed the good news in advance to Abraham: “In you all the nations will be blessed.”
Quoting scripture as was given to Abraham
Gal 3:14in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
In order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles
BTW if you are going to read Galatians, read this
Gal 3:8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, proclaimed the good news in advance to Abraham: “In you all the nations will be blessed.”
Gal 3:14in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 3:28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, because it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree,”
Gal 3:7then understand that the ones who have faith, these are sons of Abraham.
Gal 3:9So then, the ones who have faith are blessed together with Abraham who believed.
Galatians 3:6–14 (LEB) — 6 Just as Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness, 7 then understand that the ones who have faith, these are sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, proclaimed the good news in advance to Abraham: “In you all the nations will be blessed.” 9 So then, the ones who have faith are blessed together with Abraham who believed. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse, for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things that are written in the book of the law to do them.” 11 Now it is clear that no one is justified in the sight of God by the law, because “the one who is righteous will live by faith.” 12 But the law is not from faith, but “the one who does these things will live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, because it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree,” 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
When you have Israel as the central people of the Scripture it doesn't have to say "Israel."
The whole context of Scripture are the Hebrew people. From the Pentateuch (first five books of Moses) to the Prophets and the Psalms, all 39 "books" of the Bible the Jews are the central focus of history, religion, and culture, and there is no need to have to identify "Israel" every time something is discussed or mentioned of this people.
The New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation are written by Jews/Jewish Christians to and for other Jews and Jewish Christians in the first century. The salvation of the Lord is a salvation of the Jews throughout the sixty-six "books" of the whole Bible. There is no escaping this truth laid out in every page of the Bible.
If I write a letter to my Beloved and I say many things need I must identify her name each time I address something?
Christianity, which from the start was seen as a Jewish "sect" was most self-contained beginning with God promising a Deliverer of the Hebrew people "like unto Moses" and everything that followed was a telling of the Hebrew people and God's Promised Redeemer, Jesus Christ. Matthew's gospel contains over sixty Old Testament passages. The four gospels is a telling of a Jew born in Bethlehem and His life and the times in which He lived. The New Covenant epistles are written by Jewish men explaining, describing, and discussing the Acts of the Holy Spirit of Promise PROMISED TO ISRAEL by one of their prophets (Joel) trying to make sense of the New Covenant era Israel found herself in during the first century. What the Holy Spirit was doing among the Jews was to be promised and prophesied by Old Testament prophets of Israel and what they wrote was their understanding of the Old Testament prophecies and promises by God to the Hebrew nation. The whole Bible is a record of God's relationship with the Hebrew people who are the seed of Abraham, a man God began was set up to be the father of the Jewish nation and a people through whom Israel's Savior was pronounced. The whole Bible is a story of a people God called "Israel" and centers on God's relationship with this people through the millenniums. The Bible records nearly six thousand years of God, Israel, and Israel's Promised Redeemer, a Jewish man from the Jewish tribe of Judah, Jesus Christ, Israel's Lord, Messiah, Savior, and King.
The man the Gentile Romans crucified in the first century was identified by that government as a man the Hebrew people and the Gentile world recognized as "King of the Jews" in the three major languages that intersected that region in the first century A.D.
In the Pentateuch, Moses prophesied that God would raise up a man, a "Prophet like unto Moses", from among the Jewish people to be sent exclusively to the Jewish people who would also be Savior of the Jewish people whether they like it or not. So, in knowing these things it is not necessary to call out the Jewish people in every verse of the Bible, especially when Jewish men wrote the Bible from Genesis to Revelation telling of the most intimate relationship between the God who created heaven, earth, and man and of His dear plan to save the Jewish people.
Be consistent. Every Hebrew writer of the sixty-six "books" of the Bible is consistent. Even God is consistent. The Bible is a telling of God and His relationship with the Hebrew people. God does not spend nearly four thousand years preparing a Messiah for the people, and the next two thousand years preparing a people for their Messiah and not have a record of it all. If you want to remain ignorant and unbelieving that is your prerogative. Read the following. When Mark says:
5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins. Mark 1:5.
...when he says, "all the land of Judaea" he is speaking of Gentiles, and when he says, "all they of Jerusalem" he includes all the Temple priests, scribes, and religious leaders of the Sanhedrin coming out to be baptized of John?
He doesn't have to.
Or when Pontius Pilate ordered a placard placed above the head of Jesus on the cross saying, "This is the King of the Jews" he was including Gentiles as a people who this "King" reigned over?
He doesn't have to.
Some things in Scripture are rightly understood by those to whom the Scripture is written to and for. And beginning with Moses and the prophets Jesus gave a stunning retelling of those Scriptures and to whom those writings were written to, does He have to identify the "Jews" or "Israel" every time something is written in those writings?
jeremiah1five
Active Member
That's such a lie and ignorance of the Law. So, you're saying (in ignorance) that by fulfilling the Law that Jesus "ended the Law" for us? You must be Gentile. Here is a Gentile telling Jews about their religion that they no longer need to obey it? You are leading Jews into anarchy which is tantamount to telling Jews they don't have to be obedient to God or His Law. Only devils and demons say such things. Would you like it if some foreigner in Africa tells Americans they don't have to obey the U.S. Constitution of these United States? And yet you with impunity are telling another nation of people they don't have to obey their Law anymore. What ignorant things to say and what arrogance, too. You are in effect telling born-again Christians they don't need the Law which is telling them they don't have to obey the Holy Spirit because Jesus ended the Holy Spirit?
You OBVIOUSLY do not know or understand the value and importance of the Law God gave to the children of Israel in the desert at the time of Moses and the Tabernacle, the very Law that describes the Work, Ministry, Character, and Person of the Lord Jesus Christ, do you? And yet, as a Gentile you make such an ignorant statement against another nation of people on the other side of the world that they don't have to obey their God or His Law. You make me wonder that Christians in this country who are taught this very thing towards another nation is the reason why people in this country are reaping your words and the reason of such lawlessness in America is happening in America today? Learn something here if you're going to learn anything in your life today about the God of the Bible and His Law He gave to the children of Israel.
The Law is type and shadow of the Holy Spirit. He is THAT Law God promised to "put in their inward parts" prophesied by Jeremiah one of the major prophets of Israel. The Law which commands those under the Law "thou shalt have no other gods before thee" no longer needs to be obeyed by Jews and Christians alike? Israel and Christians today need not obey God's command "thou shalt not kill, or steal, or bear false witness" against another is ended by Jesus Christ? Jesus Himself upheld the Law and taught the Jews to whom the Law was given by God no longer should be obeyed anymore? You indeed teach Christians they no longer need to obey God at all. Did Jesus ever say WHEN this Old Law is made obsolete and when it was to disappear? Do you have a specific date of this obsolescence?
Do you have a Scripture giving the date of this obsolescence?
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:33–34.
I don't know why I spend my time with such people that teach anarchy against the God of Israel. The Law God promised to "put in their inward parts and write it in their hearts" is the Law of Moses. What God commanded be written on stone for the children of Israel may possess everlastingly and perpetually obey is spiritual Law that God in the Person of the Holy Spirit dwelling in the believer through which God now leads and guides His people in the same Law but He now does it internally through the Presence of the Holy Spirit in their hearts today. It is the same "Royal Law" and the same "Law of Christ" which is the Law of the Spirit which is the Holy Spirit Himself. But according to you the Holy Spirit is now "obsolete" and Christians no longer need to obey Him. Christ is the kingdom of God. It is HE whom God promised to put in the inward parts of every person who is born-again and comes to God and is the very kingdom that dwells within "you" as Jesus said in Luke 17 "Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you" are mere lies? That is in essence what you say and what you teach. You are antinomian and teach believers they do not have to obey Christ because Christ ended the Law of Moses? If this were true then no one would be saved for the Law taught Israel who and what the Person of Christ is and what He was to accomplish on the cross at Calvary, but it was never to teach born-again believers they don't have to obey God anymore because Christ ended Christ!
Hallelujah! We are now without Law and can now lean on our own understanding in the vanity of our minds! Hallelujah! We are free from God and His puny Law and can now do as we please according to our own dictates of our corrupt minds which dwell on evil continually! Hallelujah! We have destroyed the Law now let us turn our attention against the Lawgiver and throw off our shackles for it is better to rule in hell than to serve in heaven!
Hallelujah!
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Do you have any idea why they were given a law in the first place?
Do you have any real idea what this means? Matt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Why are you not trying to teach us about Yom Teruah?
Yom Teruah, the coronation of the King and the call of the bride!
Psalm 89:15 Blessed is the people who know the joyful sound (teruah): they shall walk, O LORD, in the light of Your countenance.
It is a shame that you are stuck in this mode for it would be great to have someone who has studied the OT ways as much as you have who could fill us in on things like Yom Teruah, the coronation of the King and the call of the bride!
The 22nd was an important date , I trust you knew and celebrated, and as such the start of other festivities.. and you should be telling all about the importance of the Shofar and why the ram's left horn differs from the right in meaning, You are the one screaming that it is only the Hebrew who is of any importance to God, but do you truly understand the tie in of Jesus as King held for those back then?
Or what tie in that Jesus also has for the Gentile?
Why are you not explaining all things to us, who are Gentiles... seeing you are a Wannabe Hebrew, and self-appointed adoption as such. You are unjustly judging every last one of us. Well,
I am not going to do your work (la la la la la la) for you , because, by now this should be oozing out of your pores....
It is not difficult. It just takes time to learn.
Oy yoy yoy
Baruch Haba B’Shem Adonai
TibiasDad
Active Member
The Law of Moses, the moral law, is not “obsolete”, the ceremonial law with its animal sacrifices and regulations, such as touch not or eat not are set aside. “For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit…” (Rom 14:17)
So I am not an antinomian, far from it! The Holy Spirit leads us in the right path, which is why Paul says that we can “fulfill all the righteous requirements of the law” by following the lead of the Spirit and not the sinful nature. (Rom 8:4) it is a change of leadership from Moses to the Holy Spirit himself!
Now, quit throwing out straw man arguments and deal with my post.
Doug
jeremiah1five
Active Member
I ignore your false interpretation of the Scripture you post.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Scripture is true. It is your interpretation that is false.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Yes, I believe all the Scripture you post above.
It is your false interpretation of the Scripture that you post that is wrong.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Yes, I do. God gave His Law to the children of Israel to live by. When you take away God's Law or say that Christ made it obsolete and it was abolished by Him. This leaves the children of Israel without any Law and what is left in its place is anarchy. Every man is not bound by any Law except the law that they alone and individually create and install for themselves in their mind, which isn't necessarily the same law that another person has created and installed in his mind that he will live by. Everyone is now left to lean upon their own understanding in the vanity of their own mind. Now, you have lawless people who will bow to no one. Good job.
It's a substitutionary system of sacrifices and offerings God gave to the children of Israel which are a part of the Law. The other two parts of the Law God gave to the children of Israel is the Social Law and the Moral Law. In essence, God covered every contingency of life a Hebrew was to experience and for all contingencies God had an answer and a guidance. It's all laid out in the Pentateuch. But concerning the sacrificial system God commanded the Hebrews to obey and perform in worship of God and to address sin that exists among His people, Jesus Christ came as God's Lamb and He is the One who is doing everything in the Ceremonial Law commanded by God. Instead of the blood of the animals which was insufficient to atone for the sin of God's people, Jesus offered Himself in place of the animal and His blood was sufficient to atone the sin of God's people the Hebrews. And just as the animal was sacrificed for the children of Israel ALONE God replaced the animal for His own Son and He died under the instruction of the Law and Jesus died for the children of Israel ONLY.
Jesus Christ died to atone the sin of God's covenant people, the children of Israel. The animal sacrifice was never to atone the sins of Gentiles. Neither was Jesus sacrificed to atone the sin of Gentiles. Jesus fulfilled the Law perfectly.
Gentiles had no part in any of God's Law He gave to the children of Israel.
There is no "tie in" for Gentiles. It's more of a tie up and launch them all into the Lake of Fire.
Oh, I do my part among God's people to share what I know and what God taught me. It's just this false Constantinian Gentile theology that developed after the destruction of the Second Jewish Temple by the Romans that is the problem. In the fourth century Gentiles had already taken over the Jewish Church and changed everything that was Jewish and made it all Gentile - even gathering scrolls in order to make their own bible and claim it as authority for their existence. That is why before then, that Jews got tired of these Jewish Christ followers who were testifying and always saying this man from Nazareth was Israel's long-awaited Messiah and king who was hung on a tree, died, was buried in a tomb, and miraculously rose from the dead that led to the latter's persecution and even death. Saul was complicit in the death of Stephen. The Jews saw that his death was necessary to shut up these "Christians" before Rome comes to take away their "place" and their nation. Something they did anyway because Caesar could not share his throne with any poor, Jewish man of Galilee. All this talk about a king of the Jews was a threat to Roman law. There were other things, too, but once the Gentiles unmoored true, biblical Christianity from its Hebrew roots it was replaced with a Gentile religion that in 600 years became the Catholic "church." It snowballed from that point on.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
You said the Law of Moses was abolished and obsolete and done away by Christ. Now you're walking that back?
That's funny you should quote Romans 14:17. But I won't say why.
There you go walking it all back. Above you said Christ did away with the Law. Now you say the Law is still in effect?
Make up your mind, New Doug. Comment #30. You say Christ made the Law obsolete.
Sorry I do not believe you in the least
Really just another ignoring of the present text
You have ignored the fact Paul was called by the grace of God to
Gal 1:16to reveal his Son in me in order that I would proclaim the gospel about him among the Gentiles, immediately I did not consult with flesh and blood,
He did so in fact do
Gal 2:2Now I went up there because of a revelation and laid out to them the gospel that I preach among the Gentiles, but in private to the influential people, lest somehow I was running, or had run, in vain.
Gal 2:8(for the one who was at work through Peter for his apostleship to the circumcision was at work also through me for the Gentiles),
And His work was approved of by apostles
Gal 2:9and when James and Cephas and John—those thought to be pillars—acknowledged the grace given to me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, in order that we should go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcision.
He was also given help to continue his work with the Gentiles
Gal 2:12For before certain people came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles, but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, because he was afraid of those who were of the circumcision,
While just as you do, some Jews denied the Gentile fellowship
Gal 2:14But when I saw that they were not being straightforward with the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas in the presence of them all, “If you, although you are a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you try to compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?”
Paul however noted you both are not being straightforward with the truth of the gospel
Gal 3:8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, proclaimed the good news in advance to Abraham: “In you all the nations will be blessed.”
Quoting scripture as was given to Abraham
Gal 3:14in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
In order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles
BTW if you are going to read Galatians, read this
Gal 3:8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, proclaimed the good news in advance to Abraham: “In you all the nations will be blessed.”
Gal 3:14in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 3:28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, because it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree,”
Gal 3:7then understand that the ones who have faith, these are sons of Abraham.
Gal 3:9So then, the ones who have faith are blessed together with Abraham who believed.
Galatians 3:6–14 (LEB) — 6 Just as Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him for righteousness, 7 then understand that the ones who have faith, these are sons of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, proclaimed the good news in advance to Abraham: “In you all the nations will be blessed.” 9 So then, the ones who have faith are blessed together with Abraham who believed. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under a curse, for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all the things that are written in the book of the law to do them.” 11 Now it is clear that no one is justified in the sight of God by the law, because “the one who is righteous will live by faith.” 12 But the law is not from faith, but “the one who does these things will live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, because it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree,” 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
You deny true scripture and cannot rebut the obvious truth
Your so called replies never deal with the actual text
PS
Romans 3:21–26 (LEB) — 21 But now, apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified about by the law and the prophets—22 that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God made publicly available as the mercy seat through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness, because of the passing over of previously committed sins, 26 in the forbearance of God, for the demonstration of his righteousness in the present time, so that he should be just and the one who justifies the person by faith in Jesus.
That would include gentiles.
And so Paul informs
Romans 3:27–31 (LEB) — 27 Therefore, where is boasting? It has been excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28 For we consider a person to be justified by faith apart from the works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of the Jews only? Is he not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, also of the Gentiles, 30 since God is one, who will justify those who are circumcised by faith and those who are uncircumcised through faith.
You just run away from the text.
You have failed to prove anything false and just deny obvious biblical truth over and over
Not just multiple New Testament verses.
But even the Jewish Old Testament as well.
Isaiah 49:6 (LEB) — 6 And he says, “It is trivial for you to be a servant for me, to raise up the tribes of Jacob and to bring back the preserved of Israel. I will give you as a light to the nations, to be my salvation to the end of the earth.”
1 Chron 16:23Sing to Yahweh, all the earth! Proclaim his salvation from day to day!
You just do not deny the very word of God in the New Testament; you do so in the Old Testament as well.
And your testimony lacks any true acceptance.
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