brightfame52
Well-known member
Nothing here about they which be in the flesh can please God Rom 8:8
Refuting effectually caused faith
- Thread starter TomL
- Start date
Cowardly
You continue running
You failed to explain why God had to harden them to assure they would not believe
John 12:40 (ESV) — 40 “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they see with their eyes, and understand with their heart, and turn, and I would heal them.”
brightfame52
Well-known member
The work of faith with power
2 Thess 1:11
Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
Its denied by those in organized religion that Faith , which believes in Christ in a conversion salvation experience, is effected by the power of God. Its not the natural ability of man.
The work of Faith with Power was began by the Power of the Holy Spirit within one and its carried out to its completion by that same Power.
Now that this Faith or Believing is first effected by God's Power is seen in Eph 1:19
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Plain and simple, who believe according to the working of His Mighty Power, that power being usward !
Rom 1:16 confirms the same
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Its God"s power being exercised when the results are one is believing the Gospel.
One believes when the Gospel comes in the power of the Spirit 1 Thess 1:5
5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
And that's what Paul is stating about being fulfilled in them here 2 Thess 1:11
11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
Peter writes that believers are kept in Faith by the Power of God 1 Pet 1:5
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
This Faith is of the New Creation and it is sustained by the same Power that Created it or begat it , this to the Glory of God, particularly, God the Spirit !
2 Thess 1:11
Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
Its denied by those in organized religion that Faith , which believes in Christ in a conversion salvation experience, is effected by the power of God. Its not the natural ability of man.
The work of Faith with Power was began by the Power of the Holy Spirit within one and its carried out to its completion by that same Power.
Now that this Faith or Believing is first effected by God's Power is seen in Eph 1:19
19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Plain and simple, who believe according to the working of His Mighty Power, that power being usward !
Rom 1:16 confirms the same
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Its God"s power being exercised when the results are one is believing the Gospel.
One believes when the Gospel comes in the power of the Spirit 1 Thess 1:5
5 For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
And that's what Paul is stating about being fulfilled in them here 2 Thess 1:11
11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
Peter writes that believers are kept in Faith by the Power of God 1 Pet 1:5
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
This Faith is of the New Creation and it is sustained by the same Power that Created it or begat it , this to the Glory of God, particularly, God the Spirit !
civic
Well-known member
Yes its because of their unbelief and unwillingness to turn to God. Great verse which show the condition and reason for their blindness.
It is an apparent unwillingness to believe scripture.
Duh it is speaking of works based upon an already existent faith
2 Thessalonians 1:11 (LEB) — 11 for which purpose we also pray always for you, that you may be considered worthy of the calling of our God, and he might fulfill every desire for goodness and work of faith with power,
Work of faith (ἐργον πιστεως [ergon pisteōs]). The same phrase in 1 Thess. 1:3. Paul prays for rich fruition of what he had seen in the beginning. Work marked by faith, springs from faith, sustained by faith. With power (ἐν δυναμει [en dunamei]). In power. Connect with πληρωσῃ [plērōsēi] (fulfil), God’s power (Rom. 1:29; Col. 1:4) in Christ (1 Cor. 1:24) through the Holy Spirit (1 Thess. 1:5).
A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), 2 Th 1:11.
brightfame52
Well-known member
We believe by the power of God, thats the Spirit Rom 15:13
Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.
first what you did not reply to
Duh it is speaking of works based upon an already existent faith
2 Thessalonians 1:11 (LEB) — 11 for which purpose we also pray always for you, that you may be considered worthy of the calling of our God, and he might fulfill every desire for goodness and work of faith with power,
Work of faith (ἐργον πιστεως [ergon pisteōs]). The same phrase in 1 Thess. 1:3. Paul prays for rich fruition of what he had seen in the beginning. Work marked by faith, springs from faith, sustained by faith. With power (ἐν δυναμει [en dunamei]). In power. Connect with πληρωσῃ [plērōsēi] (fulfil), God’s power (Rom. 1:29; Col. 1:4) in Christ (1 Cor. 1:24) through the Holy Spirit (1 Thess. 1:5).
A.T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament (Nashville, TN: Broadman Press, 1933), 2 Th 1:11.
next
Romans 15:13 (LEB) — 13 Now may the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that you may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Says nothing at all about the spirit irresistibly causing them to believe
As a result of believing, they might abound in hope by the power of the spirit
brightfame52
Well-known member
We believe by the power of God Eph 1:19
And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
You dont understand spiritual things friend
Um the text does not state we believe by the power of the Spirit
Rather, it is talking about the greatness of his power being upon those who had believe.
brightfame52
Well-known member
We believe by the power of God Eph 1:19
And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, the same power that raised up Jesus from the dead, causes belief Vs 20
Which he wrought in Christ, (1) when he raised him from the dead, (2) and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
sorry
Um the text does not state we believe by the power of the Spirit
Rather, it is talking about the greatness of his power being upon those who had believed.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Believing is an Evidence of Spirits indwelling !
1 Jn 5:10
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
That witness being the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth by New Birth; Hence that one who is of the Truth as Per the Saviour Jn 18:37
37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
Such a one can now bear witness to the Truth revealed to them by the Word and Spirit, The Truth of God in the Gospel Eph 1:13
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
We must be of the Truth Jn 18:37 to hear [spiritually] the Word of Truth, and so Hearing bears witness that we have been given Eternal Life as a Gift of the Spirit, which confirms Jesus Testimony here Jn 5:24
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
The Hearing and Believing here is evidence of one possessing Eternal Life [New Birth], otherwise in the flesh we cannot Hear God's Word, or Christ's Voice.
Its only after the Spirit in New Birth bearing witness with Our Human Spirit, that we are the Children of God, that we can Spiritually receive the Truth in the Gospel, to Spiritually discern it and mentally regard it !
Because the Carnal Mind without the Spirit is at enmity with God Rom 8:7
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
1 Jn 5:10
He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
That witness being the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth by New Birth; Hence that one who is of the Truth as Per the Saviour Jn 18:37
37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.
Such a one can now bear witness to the Truth revealed to them by the Word and Spirit, The Truth of God in the Gospel Eph 1:13
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
We must be of the Truth Jn 18:37 to hear [spiritually] the Word of Truth, and so Hearing bears witness that we have been given Eternal Life as a Gift of the Spirit, which confirms Jesus Testimony here Jn 5:24
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
The Hearing and Believing here is evidence of one possessing Eternal Life [New Birth], otherwise in the flesh we cannot Hear God's Word, or Christ's Voice.
Its only after the Spirit in New Birth bearing witness with Our Human Spirit, that we are the Children of God, that we can Spiritually receive the Truth in the Gospel, to Spiritually discern it and mentally regard it !
Because the Carnal Mind without the Spirit is at enmity with God Rom 8:7
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Believing for the sake of Christ !
Phil 1:29
29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,
All those who shall believe on Christ as a result of Salvation, it is because it has been granted/given to them to do so. The reason why it has been so granted , was because of His Blood Shed for them, and because its being granted to Him, in other words, He prays that for those He died for to be be made believers through the Word of His chosen messengers Jn 17:19-20
19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
All for whom He died and rose again, them He also maketh intercession for in behalf of in heaven Rom 8:33-34
33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.
34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
The word intercession is the greek word ἐντυγχάνω
I meet, encounter, hence: (b) I call (upon), make a petition, make suit, supplication.
It means a prayer to God on behalf of another.
Christ by His Presence before God, constantly intercedes on behalf of all for whom He died, He makes Petitions for them.
Believers are the answer to Christ's petition and intercession. Lets look at a Psalm here Ps 2:7-8
“I will declare the decree:
The Lord has said to Me,
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
8 Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
Hence it was these that Christ interceded for in the Nations, and whom Paul understood would be made obedient to the Faith as Christ's possessions Rom 15:18
18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,
The ESV :
18 For I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me to bring the Gentiles to obedience—by word and deed,
They are made obedient in the day of His Power Ps 110:3, the day of Gospel Power Rom 1:16
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
The Gospel power here converting them makes manifest that they were part of the possessions, inheritance the Father gives the Son upon His Intercession for them.
Rom 1:5
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Rom 16:26
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Paul here is asserting that in answer to Christ's Intercession to the Father, the messengers are sent out with the Gospel to all nations to bring about their obedience to Christ, or to faith !
All this obedience is in accordance with Christ's Intercession for those He died world wide, and their obedience to the Faith is granted for His Sake or on His Behalf Phil 1:29
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
In other words, the privilege of trusting in Christ for Salvation was a bestowing upon all for whom He died and makes Intercession for, and their believing is an answer to His petition of interceding, for Believers are but manifestations of the Son's Redeemed Possessions Ps 2:7-8
7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
Phil 1:29
29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,
All those who shall believe on Christ as a result of Salvation, it is because it has been granted/given to them to do so. The reason why it has been so granted , was because of His Blood Shed for them, and because its being granted to Him, in other words, He prays that for those He died for to be be made believers through the Word of His chosen messengers Jn 17:19-20
19 And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth.
20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word;
All for whom He died and rose again, them He also maketh intercession for in behalf of in heaven Rom 8:33-34
33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.
34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.
The word intercession is the greek word ἐντυγχάνω
I meet, encounter, hence: (b) I call (upon), make a petition, make suit, supplication.
It means a prayer to God on behalf of another.
Christ by His Presence before God, constantly intercedes on behalf of all for whom He died, He makes Petitions for them.
Believers are the answer to Christ's petition and intercession. Lets look at a Psalm here Ps 2:7-8
“I will declare the decree:
The Lord has said to Me,
‘You are My Son,
Today I have begotten You.
8 Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
Hence it was these that Christ interceded for in the Nations, and whom Paul understood would be made obedient to the Faith as Christ's possessions Rom 15:18
18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,
The ESV :
18 For I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me to bring the Gentiles to obedience—by word and deed,
They are made obedient in the day of His Power Ps 110:3, the day of Gospel Power Rom 1:16
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
The Gospel power here converting them makes manifest that they were part of the possessions, inheritance the Father gives the Son upon His Intercession for them.
Rom 1:5
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Rom 16:26
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Paul here is asserting that in answer to Christ's Intercession to the Father, the messengers are sent out with the Gospel to all nations to bring about their obedience to Christ, or to faith !
All this obedience is in accordance with Christ's Intercession for those He died world wide, and their obedience to the Faith is granted for His Sake or on His Behalf Phil 1:29
29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
In other words, the privilege of trusting in Christ for Salvation was a bestowing upon all for whom He died and makes Intercession for, and their believing is an answer to His petition of interceding, for Believers are but manifestations of the Son's Redeemed Possessions Ps 2:7-8
7 I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
As usual, you have it backwards.
Salvation is the result of belief
John 3:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:16 (KJV 1900) — 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
John 3:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 5:24 (KJV 1900) — 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 5:25 (KJV 1900) — 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 6:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Acts 16:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Romans 10:9 (KJV 1900) — 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Romans 10:10 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
etc
brightfame52
Well-known member
@TomL
You have to be saved in order to believe the Gospel otherwise its hidden to you, because its hid to the Lost and they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
You have to be saved in order to believe the Gospel otherwise its hidden to you, because its hid to the Lost and they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4
3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
