EclipseEventSigns
Active Member
Really? Really? What YOU are teaching? I check up everything you say against Scripture, like a good Berean should. And a lot (most actually) does not pass the smell test.
Paul's Theology #2 "Rightly divide"
- Thread starter Behold
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Behold
Active Member
You can't post anything im teaching, that isn't Paul's theology.
And that is because you don't know Paul's theology.
In Fact, if you did, you'd know that much of the "Berean's" Theology, is Paul's.
You dont know this, and you are just posting what you can't prove., and will never prove.
See, you posted no quote, no verse....just your opinion.
That's what liars do.
They come to my Threads, or posts, and they say..>"i have looked and you are wrong".
That's very carnal.
Dont do that, @EclipseEventSigns
Behold
Active Member
Yes "really".
Listen, start here..
Romans 3:21-28
2 Corinthians 5:19
John 3:17
Hebrews 13:9
This is what i'm "teaching",
Simple.
Basic
"Paul's Doctrine".
1 Timothy 4:13
Rockson
Active Member
I know that.
Again hold on now. And I truly wish you'd put down a whole verse where we can see it. It seems you abbreviate things and impose meanings on the text. So let's look at it. (below) if this is what you're talking about from Acts 15.
Peter speaking: And put no difference between us and them, (the Gentiles) purifying their hearts by faith.<--- (now that has to mean by grace right?) 10Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. Acts 14:9,11
So how can you say Peter believed that he the Jews really needed to keep the law? He didn't say that. He said the opposite. He said. "We shall be saved, even as they....and HOW? Through GRACE!
The greater point. Stop making it seem Jesus didn't give revelations to Peter another Apostle besides Paul. Paul was a great man....a great Christian....he by revelation did know much by revelation yes perhaps even more than the others......I'd back away however from trying to make Paul seem like he was the Pope of the Body of Christ on the earth.....that seems to be what you're saying and I don't think Paul would even approve of that.
He's agreeing with Paul yes. There's no need to try to exalt Paul above others and it doesn't even matter if Paul received the revelation first. Jesus was imparting revelation to all of them. Just say you've received the revelation of Jesus Christ.
Rockson
Active Member
As for me I'm sure they did agree with Paul. The question is would Paul and the Bereans always agree with you. I'd lighten up if I were you. Let people present their case based on the scriptures and i wouldn't take the position that no one can correct you about anything. Perhaps you could say you're open for others to demonstrate you might be missing it on something and I'd stay away from you will never prove me wrong. You make it almost impossible to allow yourself a reassessment time on some things.
But good grief Behold that doesn't mean they're liars. People even if they're wrong don't have to always be labelled this.....they can be misinformed or even slightly so.....but many are trying their best to understand truth. I'd kindly suggest if you think you're so right about things you should consider to pray for your dearly beloved brethren that they receive revelation in their spirits on the more adequate teachings of God. (if you think your understanding is better) This is what Paul prayed in Eph 1: 17
This is what you see happen in Acts 18:26 when Aquila and Priscilla helped Apollos to understand things more clearly and they did it in a spirit of love and humility.
Behold
Active Member
I didnt say, teach, or think, that Peter said that jews needed to keep the law.
Read your verse.
Peter is saying, that the Old Covenant, that is Moses's law.... that "neither our Fathers now WE WERE able to bear"
See that? That is Peter talking past tense......regarding Jews and Law.
And now, looking forward, he's just making an exclamation point..... he's restating what IS NOT to be ever again, presented as Salvation, .. in light of the Cross and the Grace of God.
Now, notice here, in the following verses.... that Paul had to correct Peter's behavior, as He was not behaving according to CHRISTIANITY, and Paul had to call him out.
So, that is one more reason, you dont follow Peter.
You follow Paul, as He is your Teacher, and His Doctrine is CHURCH Doctrine..
Paul said...
""""But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed...
For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision. (Religious Jews).
And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."""
Peter is not the 1st Pope.
Peter is not the "apostle to the gentiles" in the "time of the Gentiles"
Behold
Active Member
Listen,
im not making anything "seem", like anything.
Im showing you some NT history that you dont know anything about.
I do.
So, let me teach, and you learn the material., or, just sit there with your opinions as your belief system.
Rockson
Active Member
Then why did you even say this!
And noticed that peter speaks about a "yoke"... on the 'disciples" and that is Moses Law and commandment keeping.
And the next thing you said was this,
So, when Peter speaks about Grace, He is teaching "Paul's Gospel".. not Acts 2:38
You had stated that Paul went down in Acts 15 to teach the Apostles but the Apostle Peter ALREADY knew this because of what happened to him in Acts 10 in a vision. So put the focus on Jesus gospel there was more besides him that believed this.
The only reason I've persisted in this isn't merely to score and academic point but to seek to do away with a teaching where one says I'm of Paul or Apollos but to realize that God was working through all of them.
Behold
Active Member
Because that is what Christianity is up against, at that time, in Israel., and still is, today.
It was Jesus vs Moses Law....Jesus vs : > Lawkeeping and commandment keeping <......IS = the YOKE that no man, no apostle, no human, can carry, can overcome.
See, God came as Christ on the Cross to do this.......
= """""""Christ is the END of the LAW....for righteousness, to every one who believes""".. (Paul_)
And Peter and those assembled there, are all agreeing with Paul.
""""""if righteousness come by the LAW = (the yoke of bondage), then Christ is DEAD in VAIN""""
Galatians 2
(Paul)
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Rockson
Active Member
I know he did. He got in fear because of the Circumcision group. That doesn't mean you're justified and implying one should never have respect towards Peter as an Apostle and say you never follow after Peter or his inspirited writings. Jesus still worked through him until the day of his death.
Of course we don't follow him and approve the mistake that he made. And we don't follow Peter if you wanted to roll out his mistakes....and we don't follow Peter when he denied the Lord three times. But that doesn't mean that we don't follow Peter in any sense of the word! Sorry Behold but I don't think Paul himself would agree with the way you're saying your words. Peter was martyred and was faithful to the Lord even to the death. We can still follow his example of the good things he did.
I follow Jesus Christ and adhere to the gospel he gave to all of his Apostles including Peter, James and John and Paul.
I agree. There is no such thing a Pope.
SIGH ....all that means is that's the direction of ministry God primarily gave for Paul. Peter had the same revelation that Paul received that salvation by grace was given to the Gentiles. He even said this in Acts 15
To the readers at least I'd encourage you not to think of Paul the Apostle as a Pope. It seems to me that is what this dear brother Behold is basically saying without saying the word Pope.
As I said before though Behold. There's a lot of things of other themes I do agree with you. Just this one thing in particular I have strong reservations about what you're saying. God Bless.
Rockson
Active Member
Yes I get all that. I think I'm done with speaking about this particular subject and theme. Enough has been said. I'll let readers decide.
Behold
Active Member
Paul said... "be a follower of me, as i follow Christ".
you dont have to do it.
You can still follow your opinion instead, reader.
You can follow peter, as that is what is what the Catholics do.
In fact, they nominated Peter as their 1st Pope, and they teach that water washes your sin away.
He's not, and it doesn't.
Just remember that "The Gospel of the Grace of God" is not Acts 2:38
And remember that Paul is the "Apostle to the Gentiles" who wrote most of the Epistles in the NT.
There is a reason for all this, as ive shown you.
What you have to find out, is why your church and your commentaries have never shown you any of this.. before.
See, you now have PAUL in your head, and im the reason.
Everyone here does, and im the reason....and that is the work of the Spirit, who is bringing some to the revelation that im teaching.
See, you have to be a disciple of Paul's Theology, of Paul's Doctrine, or you will never be able to understand the NT, or Salvation, or why the born again are "not under the Law but under Grace". = Paul's doctrine.
To "walk in the Spirit" is to understand Paul's Doctrine as that is also Paul's doctrine.
You wont be able to understand the Gifts of the Spirit, (As all that is Paul's teaching, also.)
and, on and on.
Rockson
Active Member
I think perhaps people here will do a lot more than you.
They'll follow Paul as he followed Christ.
They'll follow Peter as he followed Christ.
They'll follow John as he followed Christ.
And so on and so on and so on.
synergy
Active Member
What!?! What did Peter do to you for you to disparage Peter?
Behold
Active Member
You are always saying/posting what you """think."""
So, that's fine.
There are many believers who's real god is their opinion.
But when you want to learn some bible and be useful to God, and be used by God, you have to learn to learn some things..
First and foremost, you have to learn who to believe and why, and you dont know anything about this yet., @Rockson .
That obvious.
And that is not what you "think".
That is what God says, and that is very much based on the NT that is Paul's Doctrine.
An OT verse says... "my people are destroyed for lack of Knowledge"...
And in the NT, the way you are destroyed is to be captured by a "doctrine of devils".. .and that happens to anyone who is not a student of Paul's doctrine.
That's a fact.
One of the easiest ways to discover if you are going to a cult, is if the preacher, teacher, pastor, or pope, never teaches Paul's doctrine, and in fact does not even know what it is, at all.
That's a clue for you., that you might want to think about.....Reader.
See, God reveals more Light to the believer, by building upon what they have learned that is True, that is previous revelation knowledge, they've gained.
Its like building a house of Light.. You have to get the foundation, and then the walls...ect ect.
For you @Rockson ...... and for most..... you have to get out this situation and stay out.... Hebrews 6:1
And that is not related to opinion or "thinking" what you "think" about it.
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Behold
Active Member
Complete
Active Member
Subject Heading:- "Paul's Theology #2 "Rightly divide"
Hello @Behold, + @Rockson, @synergy
Introducing the subject of right division under the heading of 'Paul's Theology' was not a good idea, I feel. For this is not Paul's Theology is it? For as an Apostle of the risen Christ, he only imparted what was divinely revealed to Him, by His Lord and Saviour. In fact if he read this terminology, he would probably say, as he did to the Corinthian believers in 1 Corinthians 3.
'Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos,
but ministers by whom ye believed,
even as the Lord gave to every man?
I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
So then neither is he that planteth any thing,
neither he that watereth;
but God that giveth the increase.
Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one:
and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
For we are labourers together with God:
ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.'
(1Co 3:5-9)
* What matters is the principle that he was introducing, isn't it? The teaching that He himself had received from above.
Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth.'
(2Tim. 2:15)
* This principle is vital if we are to go on to know what God's will is for us in this present dispensation of grace.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Hello @Behold, + @Rockson, @synergy
Introducing the subject of right division under the heading of 'Paul's Theology' was not a good idea, I feel. For this is not Paul's Theology is it? For as an Apostle of the risen Christ, he only imparted what was divinely revealed to Him, by His Lord and Saviour. In fact if he read this terminology, he would probably say, as he did to the Corinthian believers in 1 Corinthians 3.
'Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos,
but ministers by whom ye believed,
even as the Lord gave to every man?
I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
So then neither is he that planteth any thing,
neither he that watereth;
but God that giveth the increase.
Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one:
and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
For we are labourers together with God:
ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.'
(1Co 3:5-9)
* What matters is the principle that he was introducing, isn't it? The teaching that He himself had received from above.
Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth.'
(2Tim. 2:15)
* This principle is vital if we are to go on to know what God's will is for us in this present dispensation of grace.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Complete
Active Member
Study to shew thyself approved unto God,
a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth.'
(2Tim. 2:15)
Hello again, @Behold, + @Rockson, @synergy
The context in which this principle of 'right division' is introduced is worth considering too. For Timothy in Ephesus was surrounded by those who were engaging in endless debate about words to no profit, but to the subverting of those who heard; and Paul was eager that Timothy should rise above such carnal behaviour (1 Cor. 3:2), and seek to show himself approved unto God, as a workman who rightly divided the word of truth. Not engaged in debate with others, or influenced by the opinions being expressed, but one whose sole teacher was the word of truth itself.
* Paul was God's chosen recipient of the revelation concerning this present dispensation of grace, and he was it's divinely chosen Steward. It was he that was given the privilege of making it known. Which he did in the letters he wrote from his confinement. The epistles of Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon, based on the foundation of the teaching of the letter to the Romans, especially ch. 5:12 - 8:39.
'Be not thou therefore ashamed
of the testimony of our Lord,
nor of me His prisoner:'
(2Tim. 1:8a)
* If God chose Paul to minister His truth for this present dispensation (Eph. 3:1-2), it is not for us to undermine him or the words that he imparted, which were of God.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
a workman that needeth not to be ashamed,
rightly dividing the word of truth.'
(2Tim. 2:15)
Hello again, @Behold, + @Rockson, @synergy
The context in which this principle of 'right division' is introduced is worth considering too. For Timothy in Ephesus was surrounded by those who were engaging in endless debate about words to no profit, but to the subverting of those who heard; and Paul was eager that Timothy should rise above such carnal behaviour (1 Cor. 3:2), and seek to show himself approved unto God, as a workman who rightly divided the word of truth. Not engaged in debate with others, or influenced by the opinions being expressed, but one whose sole teacher was the word of truth itself.
* Paul was God's chosen recipient of the revelation concerning this present dispensation of grace, and he was it's divinely chosen Steward. It was he that was given the privilege of making it known. Which he did in the letters he wrote from his confinement. The epistles of Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 2 Timothy, Titus and Philemon, based on the foundation of the teaching of the letter to the Romans, especially ch. 5:12 - 8:39.
'Be not thou therefore ashamed
of the testimony of our Lord,
nor of me His prisoner:'
(2Tim. 1:8a)
* If God chose Paul to minister His truth for this present dispensation (Eph. 3:1-2), it is not for us to undermine him or the words that he imparted, which were of God.
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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synergy
Active Member
Please tell us exactly how your following sentence would apply to anyone of us: "... it is not for us to undermine him [Paul] or the words that he imparted ..."?
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