Open Debate on the "Eternal Sonship vs Incarnate Sonship which is biblical?"

[Peterlag]

Well if he is not god and he is not an angel. The only think left is mere man

There's another option left. He could be the...

son of God, the Messiah to Israel, and the now resurrected Lord Christ to the Christian who sits at the right hand of God as second in command and is the head of the Church that is called the body of Christ.

 

[Peterlag]

I’m called a son of God so what’s the difference ?

Even a sinless man can only redeem his own life but never anyone else. That sinless man cannot save anyone except himself .

Psalm 49:7- No man can possibly redeem his brother or pay his ransom to God.

So your view of Jesus fails the biblical test.

Does Psalm 49:7 say even a sinless man?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

There's another option left. He could be the...

son of God, the Messiah to Israel, and the now resurrected Lord Christ to the Christian who sits at the right hand of God as second in command and is the head of the Church that is called the body of Christ.

Son of God is the name of the second person of the trinity

so yes your right

Other than that though

there is God there are angels

and there is man,

there is no option number 4.

 

[Aeliana]

The most stunning thing about God's decision to create man in His own image is the use of the plural pronouns: "Let US make man in OUR own image," rather than 'let ME make man in MY own image'.

There is only ONE God and God is ONE, for we read in Exodus: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!", and Jesus Himself said, "Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord," yet God is presented throughout Scripture in three Persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

 

[Peterlag]

Son of God is the name of the second person of the trinity

so yes your right

Other than that though

there is God there are angels

and there is man,

there is no option number 4.

Since you have no idea who the Christ is.

Is why you think he either has to be God or just a man like me.

 

[Red Baker]

@Eternally-Grateful

Before abraham was, I AM

in the Greek. it literally means I always was. or I always existed.

You do not know the Greek no more than anyone else here. Besides, Jesus in his Deity is from everlasting to everlasting, so there.

Also, does this mean that the Greek by nature should have a better understanding of the scriptures than you, or, myself, or anyone else who is not a Greek by nature? How foolish to even think this.

 

[Red Baker]

Son of God is the name of the second person of the trinity

Jesus Christ is NOT the second person of the Godhead, he is God in his Deity as the I AM THAT I AM without any qualification!

The Holy Spirit is not teh third person of the Godhead, he is God without any qualification! You folks are rubber stamp believers just repeating what you have heard all of your life. The sooner you grasp a hold of this truth, the better you will be to be able to defend the truth.

 

[Red Baker]

@Peterlag

Since you have no idea who the Christ is.

He knows more than you!

 

[Red Baker]

@Peterlag

son of God, the Messiah to Israel, and the now resurrected Lord Christ to the Christian who sits at the right hand of God as second in command and is the head of the Church that is called the body of Christ.

He is the ONLY God, man or angels will bow before in that day!

1st Timothy 6:15​

“Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;”

Only in his humanity will He submit Himself to God who is a Spirit that lives in eternity, always has, always will.

 

[civic]

Does Psalm 49:7 say even a sinless man?

Doesn’t matter no man can redeem another

Is Jesus a man ? Yes or no

 

[Red Baker]

@praise_yeshua

I know why Isaiah did it.

Why?

 

[civic]

@Peterlag

He is the ONLY God, man or angels will bow before in that day!

1st Timothy 6:15​

“Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;”

Only in his humanity will He submit Himself to God who is a Spirit that lives in eternity, always has, always will.

Wrong again that is not about Jesus it’s about God the Father who no man has seen and lives in unapproachable light and is immortal.

Jesus was mortal and died.

God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.

Next fallacy.

 

[Red Baker]

You are projecting again. Actually the one who denies the Eternal Son is believing a heresy since the Son is the 2nd Person in the Trinity. I have provided plenty of passages showing the Sons pre existence before He became flesh but you reject them just like every other unitarian does on this forum.

Then after His birth as a man you promote Modalism. The Deity is One Person in different modes of operation.

What a mess.

Take what I have given to you and prove it wrong with scriptures, section by section, instead of making a general statement which truly does not prove not one thing in your favor.

 

[Red Baker]

@civic

Wrong again that is not about Jesus it’s about God the Father who no man has seen and lives in unapproachable light and is immortal.

Jesus was mortal and died.

Jesus was more than just an mortal man, even you say this when it is in your favor to do so. Besides, follow the context of the scriptures sunder consideration.

1st Timothy 6:14,15​

“That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;"

Verse 15 is connect to verse 14! Talking about the SAME PERSON...verse 15 is connected to:

1st Timothy 6:16​

Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

This is true of Jesus' Deity as the God of Genesis 1:1. The Lord Jesus was a complex person, fully God, fully man!

I'm leaving soon, be back tomorrow the Lord willing.

 

[Peterlag]

Doesn’t matter no man can redeem another

Is Jesus a man ? Yes or no

Romans says a man (Adam) caused sin to enter into the world, and also that a man would have to redeem it from sin. Romans 5:15 says “For if many died through one man’s trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.” The Bible specifically says that aman must do it. The book of Corinthians makes the same point Romans does when it says “For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead” (1 Corinthians 15:21).

 

[Peterlag]

@Peterlag

He is the ONLY God, man or angels will bow before in that day!

1st Timothy 6:15​

“Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;”

Only in his humanity will He submit Himself to God who is a Spirit that lives in eternity, always has, always will.

The quoted verse of 1 Timothy 6:15 does not say Jesus is God.

 

[civic]

The quoted verse of 1 Timothy 6:15 does not say Jesus is God.

As much as I hate to agree with you , you are correct

 

[Red Baker]

@Peterlag

The quoted verse of 1 Timothy 6:15 does not say Jesus is God.

Just like Genesis 1:1 does not say..............“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”

It said whatever you and others want it to say.

2 Peter 3:16​

“As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.”

 

[Red Baker]

@civic

In the beginning was the Word ( Son ) the Son was with the Father ( God ) and the Son ( Word ) was God ( not the Father ).

You started out wrong, so it is impossible to end up correct concerning the Godhead. The Holy Spirit interprets His word for us:

John 1:1​

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”

With God is speaking of ONE DIvine Nature in essence which makes up the Godhead.

1st John 1:1 That (with God) which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;​

That.

That is a glorious demonstrative pronoun for our Lord Jesus Christ ~ the Word of life!

A personal pronoun like Who loses proximity, timing context by That versus This.

Example: That was the biggest snow … this was the biggest … which is closer in place or time?

Jesus ascended to heaven years earlier, so the distant demonstrative pronoun is used.

This which was from the beginning would not make sense, for Jesus was not present as the Son.

Civic, this That is everything. All things are by Him, through Him, for Him, to Him...As God of Genesis 1:1

You and I were created and exist for this That; no need to distinguish Jehovah or His Son as far as their Divine nature goes as the God of Genesis 1:1.

Though Jesus in his humanity is subordinate to God as our Mediator (1st Corinthians 15:28) He is also God. Though Jesus is subordinate to God, He has been exalted for worship (Philippians 2:9-11). Though Jesus is subordinate, He is the glorious express image of God in his human body. (Hebrews 1:3). To the degree anyone daily confuse their existence with any other purpose, they lose. Jesus Christ is the Head of our religion, our King, our Priest, our Savior, and coming Judge. He shall, in His times, reveal He is the Blessed and Only Potentate (1st Timothy 6:14-16).

 

[Red Baker]

@civic @Eternally-Grateful @FreeInChrist @Peterlag

Please address the following post:

# 52, 64, 78, 79, 122, and 123. So far no one has done so. Thanks.

I'll try to post later, I have been sick the last day or so, trusting I can get better. That's I'm up now, cannot sleep.