If we choose the salvation we heard about then we are saved by our choice, our will and we save ourselves though it is by HIS method.
No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
So, to be clear, you really think we were ALL there at the creation of the physical universe?
FreeInChrist
Active Member
1000% correct @Doug Brents
Now... here is the question that even they cannot answer.
Why do they not understand your " . I said that we can choose to accept the gift God has given us through Christ Jesus because He has given us that option through His death and resurrection."
Truly stated statement of truth.... with such clarity even a child could understand?
Doug Brents
Active Member
Your point has been proven incorrect by Scripture. You are now arguing with God, and He will ALWAYS win.
Doug Brents
Active Member
If you get in the wheelbarrow of the tightrope walker and he pushes the wheelbarrow with you in it across the Grand Canyon on the tightrope, did you get yourself across the Grand Canyon? Or did he? Obviously, it is he who got you across. It is the same with God. Our faith, our choice, is to get into the wheelbarrow; to trust in Him through repentance, confession of Him, and baptism. This puts us into the wheelbarrow. Then He is the one who takes us across the Grand Canyon into salvation which is on the other side of the Great Gulf. When we get into the wheelbarrow, the wheelbarrow is still on the side of the Grand Canyon of the Lost; it is Christ that takes the wheelbarrow (and therefore us) to the other side of the Canyon.
Doug Brents
Active Member
No. Those who were alive then (which I believe were only the angels) where there. I believe that your soul and mine were created at the instant of conception. I believe that our souls did not exist at creation other than in God's foreknowledge.
Doug Brents
Active Member
I would get in trouble with the admin staff of this forum if I were to answer your question honestly.
brightfame52
Active Member
Those whom the Father draws to are those whom He predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son Rom 8:29-30
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
The call here is ,so that they may come to Christ. This call relates to the Fathers drawing, its the effectual call that goes out to His Chosen !15
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
The call here is ,so that they may come to Christ. This call relates to the Fathers drawing, its the effectual call that goes out to His Chosen !15
How do you reconcile that some sinners who have no faith are condemned already but other sinners who do have faith are never condemned, John 3:18 Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. Berean Standard Bible
I can see why HE calls all, preaches salvation to all, to prove to the sinful believers that the reprobate will not, will never, put their faith in HIS call to encourage these sinful believers to come out from among those who are condemned already and touch not their evil ways, ie, to repent and accept the judgement as an absolute necessity, but...
how can HE draw all of every person ever created to HIMself if it implies their salvation when we know that He has already condemned some of them?
I accept that all in this case cannot mean every person if it refers to their salvation. It can only refer to sinful believers, not those condemned already....unless it refers to HIS drawing all of creation to the great white throne judgment wherein those condemned already are separated from HIM and HIS family forever, Matt 25:41, 46...
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brightfame52
Active Member
Jesus said only those who are of God hears the word of God so man does not have a free will to hear and learn John 8:47
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
...then all does not mean all at all, it only means some...it is open to interpretation so the claim that all must always mean all all the time is false, yet I hear that echoed within the instruction to "just read the scripture."
Because all are sinners enslaved to the power of sin by their love for the pleasures and profits of sin more than they love the truth, Rom 1:18+. They got this way by their own free will decision to disobey GOD, not by the will or choice of GOD for them to be that way...
All are sinners means that only sinners are sown into mankind, Matt 13:36-39, whether sinful sheep, the sinful people of HIS kingdom, or sinful goats, the sinful people of the evil one.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
"But teacher I wanna be. Tell me what I need to do."
Here is what you must do. "To be saved, the Bible teaches that you must believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and confess Him as Lord. Key verses include Romans 10:9-10, which states that if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved, and Acts 16:31, which says, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved." "
- Romans 10:13: "For everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
In the context of salvation, faith involves:
- Knowledge: Understanding the Gospel and what Jesus has done.
- Assent: Agreeing that this knowledge is true.
- Trust: Relying on God to fulfill His promises, similar to trusting an airplane to carry you safely.
You have taken the first step by your desire to understand and hear God.
He will not fail you but be vigilant because there are those who would take your very soul if you let them
Amen, amen
Doug Brents
Active Member
All sinners (and everyone is a sinner, until and unless they believe in Christ) are already condemned. There are no sinners who are not already condemned. But once we are saved we are no longer called sinners (even though we continue to commit sin), because the blood of Christ continually cleanses us from all sin, thus we are called saints.
His call does not equate to salvation. That is where you err. Everyone has been drawn (given the ability to accept the Gospel), not not everyone will even hear the Gospel, let alone believe it.
Doug Brents
Active Member
Your "logic" is flawed. The "all" in John 12:32 is qualified as meaning absolutely all of mankind through 1 John 2:2. It is not limited to just the "elect", nor is it open to individual interpretation.
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes unbelief is part of the power of sin and darkness and naturally we are slaves to sin
brightfame52
Active Member
Correct one must be saved to hear the words of God, born of God
Actually he stated more than that
John 6:45 (NASB95) — 45 “It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
Those who believe Moses would believe on Jesus
John 5:46 (LEB) — 46 For if you had believed Moses, you would believe me, for that one wrote about me.
Those who had God as their father would believe Jesus
John 8:42 (LEB) — 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your father, you would love me, for I have come forth from God and have come. For I have not come from myself, but that one sent me.
Those desiring the will of God will know Jesus was speaking truth
John 7:17 (LEB) — 17 If anyone wants to do his will, he will know about my teaching, whether it is from God or I am speaking from myself.
Those who were God’s would be given to Jesus and have kept his word
John 17:6 (LEB) — 6 “I have revealed your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me, and they have kept your word.
False
John 6:45 (NASB95) — 45 “It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
Those who believe Moses
John 5:46 (LEB) — 46 For if you had believed Moses, you would believe me, for that one wrote about me.
Those who had God as their father
John 8:42 (LEB) — 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your father, you would love me, for I have come forth from God and have come. For I have not come from myself, but that one sent me.
Those desiring the will of God
John 7:17 (LEB) — 17 If anyone wants to do his will, he will know about my teaching, whether it is from God or I am speaking from myself.
Those who were God’s and have kept his word
John 17:6 (LEB) — 6 “I have revealed your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me, and they have kept your word.
