Doug Brents
Active Member
@brightfame52, @TedT If Christ drew all mankind to Himself when He was lifted up (and He said He did, so He did), and being drawn means they are saved, then you are saying that all men are saved?
No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !
- Thread starter brightfame52
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Doug Brents
Active Member
Can one man's slave not hear the words of another man? Did Onesimus not flee from his master, and become the servant/brother of Paul before being sent back to Philemon?
One enslaved to sin who hears the Gospel can choose to believe it, and be saved through it. The faith through which one is saved comes through hearing the Gospel of Jesus (Rom 10:17).
brightfame52
Active Member
He did not draw all mankind to Himself but all the elect from all over the world. All mankind has never been God's Covenant People, only a Chosen remnant. Christ Death was a Covenantal Death for a specific people.
Doug Brents
Active Member
Read the Scripture. He doesn't say that He will draw some, or that He will draw the elect, or that He will draw His sheep. He says that He will draw all mankind to Himself.
John 12:32 - "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to Myself."
all [men]
πάντας (pantas)
Adjective - Accusative Masculine Plural
Strong's 3956: All, the whole, every kind of. Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole.
You are editing what He said based on your preconception, rather than editing your personal beliefs based on what Scripture says. Which comes from the Eternal One?
brightfame52
Active Member
Right all New Covenant Israel, the Seed Like Rom 4 16
16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
Christ is and was raised a Saviour to Israel Acts 13:23
Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:
brightfame52
Active Member
In addition, in Jn 12:32 the word men is not in the original, just pantos which also means:
- individually
- each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
- collectively
- some of all types
If you hold to total inability you do not believe these verses
Again, you make a false statement; and you failed to address the scripture.
Deuteronomy 30:11–19 (NASB95) — 11 “For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. 12 “It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 13 “Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 14 “But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it. 15 “See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity; 16 in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that the LORD your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it. 17 “But if your heart turns away and you will not obey, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it. 19 “I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,
Romans 10:8–11 (NASB95) — 8 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.”
Doug Brents
Active Member
Now you are adding to Scripture and incorrectly connecting other Scripture. For whom did Christ die? All mankind (1 John 2:2). The ones drawn to Christ by His death are the same as the ones for whom He died: not only the Brethren (the Body of Christ, the "elect"), but for every person who has ever lived or will ever live.
And now you are adding to definitions.
"Pantos" is a Greek word that can be an adjective or an adverb, with meanings such as
"all," "every," "whole," or "always". When used as an adverb (pantós), it can mean "surely," "by all means," or "altogether". It is the genitive case of pas, meaning "all," and is used in a variety of contexts, such as in "from every nation" or "before all the multitude".
Meanings of pantos
- Adjective (from pas): "all," "every," or "the whole".
- Example: "men devout from every nation" (Acts 2:5)
- Example: "before all the multitude" (Acts 6:5)
- Adverb: "surely," "by all means," "altogether," or "always".
- Example: "I must by all means keep this feast" (Acts 18:21)
- Example: "all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death" (Hebrews 2:15)
- Negative context: With a negative word like "not," it can mean "in no wise," "not at all," or "not altogether".
- Example: "No, in no wise" (Romans 3:9)
brightfame52
Active Member
Sure I do, I believe each of them
brightfame52
Active Member
No I'm not and you should interpret scripture with scripture
Doug Brents
Active Member
I do, and I did. You should do so as well, but you can't because properly interpreting Scripture with Scripture proves your ideas are complete nonsense.
brightfame52
Active Member
I don't think so. The all in Jn 12 32 is limited to the elect of all ethnicities not just jews
