brightfame52
Active Member
Sure the natural man cannot believe the gospel. It's the regenerated person that believes the gospel
No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !
- Thread starter brightfame52
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If “free will” means that God gives humans the opportunity to make choices that genuinely affect their destiny, then yes, human beings do have a free will.
The world’s current sinful state is directly linked to choices made by Adam and Eve. God created mankind in His own image, and that included the ability to choose to believe the gospel and accept Jesus as Lors and savior.
The world’s current sinful state is directly linked to choices made by Adam and Eve. God created mankind in His own image, and that included the ability to choose to believe the gospel and accept Jesus as Lors and savior.
You just ignored the scriptures I posted
Those who do not believe will not see life
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.
Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.
John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”
1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.
Those who do not believe do not receive life - that is, regeneration.
Your view, however, holds some unbelievers, i.e. the elect do receive life—that is, regeneration.
That is contrary to what the scripture states.
So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe.
Sorry, regeneration is the receiving of life
Scripture states those who do not believe can receive it
You are clearly rejecting God's word with your claims
brightfame52
Active Member
God determine everybody's destiny before they were born or Made
False claim
As God desires the salvation of all
1 Tim 2:3–4This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
2 Pet 3:9The Lord is not delaying the promise, as some consider slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not want any to perish, but all to come to repentance.
Ezek 18:23Have I delight by any means in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord Yahweh, and not at his turning from his way, so that he lives?
Ezek 33:11Say to them, ‘As I live,’ declares the Lord Yahweh, ‘Surely I have no delight in the death of the wicked, except in the wicked returning from his way, and he lives. Turn back! Turn back from your ways, O evil ones, for why should you die, house of Israel?’
John 3:16–17For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world in order that he should judge the world, but in order that the world should be saved through him.
1 Tim 4:10For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.
Titus 2:11For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,
brightfame52
Active Member
No it's not. All men have had their eternal destiny predetermined by God before they were born.
brightfame52
Active Member
What we as natural men don't comprehend is that by nature we are dead to God, in such a condition we are without any hope in and of ourselves, like these gentiles Eph 2:12
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
This means nothing can possibly done by man to change his plight, he can not do anything spiritually good towards salvation. Without spiritual life its a dead end. By nature we cant even think a spiritual thought 2 Cor 3:5
Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
Jesus even told His disciples in regards to spiritual matters Jn 15:5
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
So what about a person dead in sin ? How can they come to Christ, a spiritual act, by their own freewill in the flesh ? 14
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
This means nothing can possibly done by man to change his plight, he can not do anything spiritually good towards salvation. Without spiritual life its a dead end. By nature we cant even think a spiritual thought 2 Cor 3:5
Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
Jesus even told His disciples in regards to spiritual matters Jn 15:5
I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
So what about a person dead in sin ? How can they come to Christ, a spiritual act, by their own freewill in the flesh ? 14
Sorry, that is not stated anywhere.
And God desires the salvation of all
False claim
As God desires the salvation of all
1 Tim 2:3–4This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
2 Pet 3:9The Lord is not delaying the promise, as some consider slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not want any to perish, but all to come to repentance.
Ezek 18:23Have I delight by any means in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord Yahweh, and not at his turning from his way, so that he lives?
Ezek 33:11Say to them, ‘As I live,’ declares the Lord Yahweh, ‘Surely I have no delight in the death of the wicked, except in the wicked returning from his way, and he lives. Turn back! Turn back from your ways, O evil ones, for why should you die, house of Israel?’
John 3:16–17For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world in order that he should judge the world, but in order that the world should be saved through him.
1 Tim 4:10For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.
Titus 2:11For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,
Clearly it would make no sense given God is patient because he wants you to come to repentance
2 Pet 3:9The Lord is not delaying the promise, as some consider slowness, but is being patient toward you, because he does not want any to perish, but all to come to repentance.
Ezek 18:23Have I delight by any means in the death of the wicked, declares the Lord Yahweh, and not at his turning from his way, so that he lives?
Ezek 33:11Say to them, ‘As I live,’ declares the Lord Yahweh, ‘Surely I have no delight in the death of the wicked, except in the wicked returning from his way, and he lives. Turn back! Turn back from your ways, O evil ones, for why should you die, house of Israel?’
Nor would God delight be in the turning back of the evil ones had he actually determined their loss.
brightfame52
Active Member
Rom 9 states it clear enough. The Potter made some as vessels of wrath and they are fitted for destruction and The Potter made some as vessels of mercy and brings them to Glory.
When we look at the context of Romans 9-11, we should immediately understand that the Apostle Paul is speaking of the national condition of Israel. If you take nothing else from this post, please take that! Every verse in Romans 9-11 is advancing Paul’s treatment of national Israel.
A final point. Some Christians attempt to draw from these chapters doctrines about individual believers’ justification before God. But Paul has already dealt with individual justification in the first four chapters of Romans. Certainly Paul could review what he taught in chapters 1-4, but the context of chapters 9-11 seems to deal with a completely different topic. So be very careful when making claims about justification from chapters 9-11; you may be placing the words of Paul in a subservient position to your particular theological views.
A final point. Some Christians attempt to draw from these chapters doctrines about individual believers’ justification before God. But Paul has already dealt with individual justification in the first four chapters of Romans. Certainly Paul could review what he taught in chapters 1-4, but the context of chapters 9-11 seems to deal with a completely different topic. So be very careful when making claims about justification from chapters 9-11; you may be placing the words of Paul in a subservient position to your particular theological views.
Affinity
Active Member
If you emphasize the sovereignty of God in predestining who will be saved then you take the position of hard determinism or fatalism.
Hard deterministic and fatalistic notions of determinism rule out free will in any sense. Such systems have no problem upholding divine foreknowledge of everything that occurs. In fact, since many of these harder forms of theological determinism claim that God decreed everything that occurs, it is only natural that he would know the whole course of history in advance.
It Makes God reasonable for sin and all it entails.
Afraid not
Jeremiah 18:1–12 (LEB) — 1 The word that came to Jeremiah from Yahweh, saying, 2 “Stand up and go down to the house of the potter, and there I will let you hear my words.” 3 So I went down to the house of the potter and look, there he was doing work at the potter’s wheels. 4 And the vessel that he was making with the clay was spoiled in the hand of the potter, so he made again another vessel, as it was right in the eyes of the potter to make. 5 And the word of Yahweh came to me, saying, 6 “Like this potter, am I not able to do to you, O house of Israel?” declares Yahweh. “Look, like the clay in the hand of the potter, so are you in my hand, O house of Israel. 7 One moment I speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom, to uproot, and to tear down, and to destroy it. 8 But if that nation turns back from its evil that I have threatened against it, then I will relent concerning the disaster that I planned to do to it. 9 And the next moment I speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom, to build, and to plant it. 10 But if it does evil in my sight, to not listen to my voice, then I will relent concerning the good that I said I would do to it. 11 “So now then, say, please, to the people of Judah and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, ‘Thus says Yahweh, “Look, I am preparing evil against you, and I am planning a plan against you. Please turn back, each one from his evil way, and walk rightly in your ways and your deeds.” ’ 12 But they will say, ‘It is hopeless, for we will go after our own plans, and each one of us will act according to the stubbornness of his evil heart.’
