No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !
- Thread starter brightfame52
- Start date
Yeah, it does.
This is why
And upon hearing and learning from the Father, will come to Christ.
John 6:45 (NASB95) — 45 “It is written in the prophets, ‘AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
Those who believe Moses would believe Jesus
John 5:46 (LEB) — 46 For if you had believed Moses, you would believe me, for that one wrote about me.
Moses wrote God's word
Those who had God as their father would love Christ
John 8:42 (LEB) — 42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your father, you would love me, for I have come forth from God and have come. For I have not come from myself, but that one sent me.
Those desiring the will of God would know the truth of Jesus's word
John 7:17 (LEB) — 17 If anyone wants to do his will, he will know about my teaching, whether it is from God or I am speaking from myself.
Those who were God’s and have kept his word would be Christ's
John 17:6 (LEB) — 6 “I have revealed your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me, and they have kept your word.
You failed to address any of this
brightfame52
Active Member
No it doesn't
dwight92070
Active Member
The reason that you're statements are false is because if they were true, then you make God an unjust monster, choosing to save some and choosing to damn others, without them having ANY input whatsoever, which goes against ALL of Scripture, both Old and New Testament.
But all we have to do is look at the "Father" of the Calvinism system of theology, John Calvin, and specifically his CHARACTER, to see that he too, was an unjust monster, having some beheaded and others burnt at the stake or others forms of capital punishment. Why? FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN THEY DISAGREED WITH HIS THEOLOGY, AND SOMETIMES SPOKE OUT AGAINST IT.
In other words, John Calvin, did not give anyone within earshot of him the FREEDOM TO CHOOSE whether they agreed with him or not - a freedom that God, Jesus, and the Bible and every author of the Bible has given to ALL of mankind since Creation. If they agreed with Calvin, then they would receive his grace, since he was in a position of authority in Geneva. If they disagreed with him, then they would be put to death.
Calvin's "God" is an unjust monster and he is the same "God" that has deceived people today when they agree with Calvin's demented "theology". Thank God that they do not have the authority to put persons who disagree with them to death.
By the way, Calvin taught that it was totally just for God to send those who disagree with HIM (not the Bible) to hell. Will the Calvinists of today go as far as he did, and proclaim that all of us who disagree with THEM (not the Bible) DESERVE not only death NOW but an eternity in hell after death?
Last edited:
brightfame52
Active Member
They are true so you just called God a Unjust monster, not good!
Samson
Active Member
One of the biggest problems of being a Calvinist is if you suppress the truth you will eventually grow calloused to it as seen in the book of Romans:
But no one is born morally incapable of seeing, hearing, understanding and turning to God for salvation in response to the gospel.
But no one is born morally incapable of seeing, hearing, understanding and turning to God for salvation in response to the gospel.
brightfame52
Active Member
They are spiritually incapacitated unto those things, being without Spiritual Life.
civic
Active Member
Things that make you go hmmmm
Samson
Active Member
Truth suppression alert.
The real deal is Isaiah 45:22 ("Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth...") as evidence of God's universal desire for us to hear the gospel for salvation. This true belief is that salvation is a free gift available to everyone through faith and repentance, which involves a change of mind to believe in Jesus Christ.
YES, this is the reason I believe we must have existed, lived as spirits, before the creation of the physical universe, when all those created in HIS image chose our own FATES by our free will; some accepting HIS offer of election and marriage and some eternally rejecting HIM as a liar even if it meant they would end in hell.
When some of HIS elect sinned by rebelling against the call for damnation of the reprobate, [Come out from among them and be holy!] then as sinners we were given predestined LIVES here on earth perfectly designed and programmed to bring us back to HIM the best way possible, redeemed and sanctified, heaven ready at last.
I don't accept that our enslavement to sin is meaningless and Jesus was just uttering nonsense; enslavement to sin really does mean no free will until rebirth, so our time of having a free will must have been before our being sown into mankind as sinners.
civic
Active Member
The passage is John 12 not 10. The diversion for you doesn’t work. Try sticking with John 12- the context
I'm with @brightframe52 on this, seeing no ability for an enslaved sinner to free himself from the grip of sin by accepting the gospel...only GOD can save a sinner.
BUT I contend we were chosen, elected, before the foundation of the world, NOT by HIS will but by our free will choice accepting HIS offer of election which HE made to everyone created in HIS image as able to become HIS Bride. Those who rebelled against HIS offer, rebuking HIM as a liar and a false god, become the reprobate by their own choice, not HIS.
brightfame52
Active Member
The spiritual dead can't hear or turnTruth suppression alert.
The real deal is Isaiah 45:22 ("Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth...") as evidence of God's universal desire for us to hear the gospel for salvation. This true belief is that salvation is a free gift available to everyone through faith and repentance, which involves a change of mind to believe in Jesus Christ.
brightfame52
Active Member
Does not matter what Chapter. Jesus Death objects don't Change from chapter to chapter.
Yep
Man has these abilities
Man may repent
Jeremiah 31:18-19
I have surely heard Ephraim’s moaning: ‘You disciplined me severely, like an untrained calf. Restore me, that I may return, for You are the LORD my God. / After I returned, I repented; and after I was instructed, I struck my thigh in grief. I was ashamed and humiliated because I bore the disgrace of my youth.’
Revelation 2:21–22 (LEB) — 21 And I have given her time in order to repent, and she did not want to repent from her sexual immorality. 22 Behold, I am throwing her into a sickbed and those who committed adultery with her into great affliction, unless they repent from her deeds.
Luke 11:32 (LEB) — 32 The people of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it, because they repented at the proclamation of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here!
Ezekiel 18:30–32 (LEB) — 30 “Therefore I will judge you, house of Israel, each one according to his ways,” declares the Lord Yahweh. “Repent and turn around from all of your transgression, and it will not be as a stumbling block of iniquity to you.
Draw near to God
James 4:8-10
Draw near to God, and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. / Grieve, mourn, and weep. Turn your laughter to mourning, and your joy to gloom. / Humble yourselves before the Lord, and He will exalt you.
return to the Lord
Isa 55:6–7Seek Yahweh while he lets himself be found; call him while he is near. Let the wicked forsake his way, and the man of sin his thoughts. And let him return to Yahweh, that he may take pity on him, and to our God, for he will forgive manifold.
Jeremiah 3:12–14 (LEB) — 12 Go, and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, ‘Return, apostate Israel,’ declares Yahweh. ‘I will not cause my anger to fall on you. For I am loyal,’ declares Yahweh. ‘I will not be angry forever. 13 Only acknowledge your guilt, that against Yahweh your God you have rebelled, and have scattered your ways to the strangers under every leafy tree, and you have not obeyed my voice,’ declares Yahweh.” 14 “Return, apostate children,” declares Yahweh. “For I am your master, and I will take you one from a city and two from a clan, and I will bring you to Zion.
Choose to serve God
Joshua 24:15–22 (LEB) — 15 But if it is bad in your eyes to serve Yahweh, choose for yourselves today whom you want to serve, whether it is the gods that your ancestors served beyond the river, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my household, we will serve Yahweh.” 16 And the people answered and said, “Far be it from us that we would forsake Yahweh to serve other gods, 17 for Yahweh our God brought us and our ancestors from the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery, and did these great signs before our eyes. He protected us along the entire way that we went, and among all the peoples through whose midst we passed. 18 And Yahweh drove out all the people before us, the Amorites who live in the land. We will serve Yahweh, for he is our God.” 19 But Joshua said to the people, “You cannot serve Yahweh, for he is a holy and jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions or your sins. 20 If you forsake Yahweh and serve foreign gods, he will turn and bring disaster to you; he will destroy you after he has done good to you.” 21 And the people said to Joshua, “No, we will serve Yahweh.” 22 And Joshua said to the people, “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves to serve Yahweh.” And they said, “We are witnesses.”
Choose life
Deuteronomy 30:11–20 (LEB) — 11 “For this commandment that I am commanding you today is not too wonderful for you, and it is not too far from you. 12 It is not in the heavens so that you might say, ‘Who will go up for us to the heavens and get it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 13 And it is not beyond the sea, so that you might say, ‘Who will cross for us to the other side of the sea and take it for us and cause us to hear it, so that we may do it?’ 14 But the word is very near you, even in your mouth and in your heart, so that you may do it. 15 “See, I am setting before you today life and prosperity and death and disaster; 16 what I am commanding you today is to love Yahweh your God by going in his ways and by keeping his commandments and his statutes and his regulations, and then you will live, and you will become numerous, and Yahweh your God will bless you in the land where you are going. 17 However, if your heart turns aside and you do not listen and you are lured away and you bow down to other gods and you serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you will certainly perish; you will not extend your time on the land that you are crossing the Jordan to go there to take possession of it. 19 I invoke as a witness against you today the heaven and the earth: life and death I have set before you, blessing and curse. So choose life, so that you may live, you and your offspring, 20 by loving Yahweh your God by listening to his voice and by clinging to him, for he is your life and the length of your days in order for you to live on the land that Yahweh swore to your ancestors, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give to them.”
Isaiah 55:3 (LEB) — 3 Extend your ear, and come to me! Listen so that your soul may live, and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, the enduring proofs of the mercies shown to David.
brightfame52
Active Member
This is a call to the regenerated spiritually alive , who have spiritual ears to hear and thirst Vs 1
Jesus tells us who hears spiritually Jn 8:47
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God
First, an unbeliever cannot be made spiritually alive.
John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
John 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
John 3:18 (KJV 1900) — 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Second
Isaiah 55:3 (LEB) — 3 Extend your ear, and come to me! Listen so that your soul may live, and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, the enduring proofs of the mercies shown to David.
There was no permanent indwelling of the Spirit by which one is regenerated before the death of Christ.
John 7:38–39 (KJV 1900) — 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Finally
John 8:47 (KJV 1900) — 47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
Jesus was speaking to the Jews, noting the Jews rejection of him because they were not hearing the word of God.
Were they of God, they would have believed in him.
Neil Spargo
Active Member
“Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Romans 10:13
God’s path is neither winding nor uncertain! His path is straight, narrow and sure!
The jailer, greatly concerned, approached the two, falling before them and pleading, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” Paul and Silas replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved …” Acts 16:30-31
This passage is important in relation to the free gift of salvation available to all mankind. The Bible is abundantly clear on how a person can be saved.
Romans 10:13
God’s path is neither winding nor uncertain! His path is straight, narrow and sure!
The jailer, greatly concerned, approached the two, falling before them and pleading, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” Paul and Silas replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved …” Acts 16:30-31
This passage is important in relation to the free gift of salvation available to all mankind. The Bible is abundantly clear on how a person can be saved.
A sinner enslaved to sin cannot choose this ...or what do you think "enslaved" to sin, means? Or perhaps you missed Rom 1:18+?
