No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

[TomL]

Since you insert the word people into this place in this verse which is NOT biblical, I stand by my words and my cat. Go make up another verse, this is fun....

Um I did not insert the word. Translations have because it is rather obvious when you read the text

John 12:23–33 (LEB) — 23 And Jesus answered them, saying, “The hour has come that the Son of Man will be glorified. 24 Truly, truly I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains by itself alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit. 25 The one who loves his life loses it, and the one who hates his life in this world preserves it for eternal life. 26 If anyone serves me, he must follow me, and where I am, there my servant will be also. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him. 27 “Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, deliver me from this hour’? But for this reason I have come to this hour! 28 Father, glorify your name!” Then a voice came from heaven, “I have both glorified it, and I will glorify it again.” 29 Now the crowd that stood there and heard it said it had thundered. Others were saying, “An angel has spoken to him!” 30 Jesus answered and said, “This voice has not happened for my sake, but for your sake. 31 Now is the judgment of this world! Now the ruler of this world will be thrown out! 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” 33 (Now he said this to indicate by what sort of death he was going to die.)

And you think there is no distinction between cats or people here?

Seriously?

 

[TomL]

Indeed...


Declare in this verse is diasepheo:
diasapheó: To explain thoroughly, to declare, to make clear,
not just to talk about something using more metaphor. This is why some editors say they ask Him to explain the metaphor of the parable.

​

Gee, not a word about the verb to sow, suggesting it means absolutely nothing - - - missing the point of them asking for a thorough explanation. Christ answers about HOW the people of the kingdom and HOW the people of the evil one come into mankind.

Christ tells them and us clearly that they are sown here, moved here from another place against the current favorite doctrine that we are created here in the womb.

IF His words are merely more metaphor then He is explaining nothing, merely repeating Himself. Remember sow cannot mean to create because in these same verses the devil is said to sow people into mankind too and he cannot create.

Sorry there is nothing about people being brought from another place

What we have here is a metaphor of a word that means to pour out.

In this case it means to bring about, not to transfer from one location to another.

 

[TedT]

Um I did not insert the word. Translations have because it is rather obvious when you read the text

Translators with a pov to press and to support by any means...

 

[TedT]

What we have here is a metaphor of a word that means to pour out.

What word means to pour out??? This isn't another made up word inserted into the text is it?

 

[TomL]

What word means to pour out??? This isn't another made up word inserted into the text is it?

The word we need to consider is



σπείρω (speirō), vb. sow (seed). fut.act. σπερῶ; aor.act. ἔσπειρα; perf.act. ἔσπαρκα; aor.pass. ἐσπάρην; perf.mid. ἔσπαρμαι. Hebrew equivalent: זרע (32). LTW σπείρω (Agriculture).
Verb Usage
1. to sow (seed) — to place or scatter (seeds) in or on the ground for future growth. Related Topics: Seed; Sower; Sow.
Mt 13:3|| Ἰδοὺ ἐξῆλθεν ὁ σπείρων τοῦ σπείρειν.
Mk 4:3|| ἰδοὺ ἐξῆλθεν ὁ σπείρων σπεῖραι.
1 Co 15:36 σὺ ὃ σπείρεις,
2 Co 9:6 ὁ σπείρων φειδομένως
Ga 6:7 ὃ γὰρ ἐὰν σπείρῃ ἄνθρωπος,
2. to be sown (state) — to be or become placed or scattered in or on the ground for future growth (as of seeds). Related Topics: Seed; Sower; Sow.
Mk 4:15|| ὅπου σπείρεται ὁ λόγος,
Mk 4:15|| καὶ αἴρει τὸν λόγον τὸν ἐσπαρμένον εἰς αὐτούς.
Mk 4:16|| καὶ οὗτοί εἰσιν ὁμοίως οἱ ἐπὶ τὰ πετρώδη σπειρόμενοι, οἳ
Mk 4:18|| καὶ ἄλλοι εἰσὶν οἱ εἰς τὰς ἀκάνθας σπειρόμενοι·
Mk 4:20|| καὶ ἐκεῖνοί εἰσιν οἱ ἐπὶ τὴν γῆν τὴν καλὴν σπαρέντες,
3. to spread ⇔ sow† — to spread, conceived of as placing or scattering seeds on the ground for future growth. Related Topic: Sower.
Mk 4:14|| ὁ σπείρων
Mk 4:14|| ὁ σπείρων τὸν λόγον σπείρει.
1 Co 9:11 εἰ ἡμεῖς ὑμῖν τὰ πνευματικὰ ἐσπείραμεν,
4. to cultivate ⇔ sow† — to cultivate, conceived of as sowing seeds for growth. Related Topics: Farm; Sower; Cultivate; Agriculture; Land and Property.
Ga 6:8 ὁ σπείρων εἰς τὴν σάρκα ἑαυτοῦ
Ga 6:8 ὁ δὲ σπείρων εἰς τὸ πνεῦμα
5. to be cultivated ⇔ be sown† — to be or become cultivated, conceived of as sowing seeds for growth. Related Topics: Farm; Sower; Cultivate; Agriculture; Land and Property.
Jas 3:18 καρπὸς δὲ δικαιοσύνης ἐν εἰρήνῃ σπείρεται τοῖς ποιοῦσιν εἰρήνην.
Rick Brannan, ed., Lexham Research Lexicon of the Greek New Testament (Lexham Research Lexicons; Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press, 2020).

When one sows, one throws out, pours, or scatters seed

Metaphorically, the passage is speaking of the making of people who are righteous or unrighteous is what is in view

Christ is making people righteous

Satan is making people evil

 

[TomL]

Translators with a pov to press and to support by any means...

Read the text

Um I did not insert the word. Translations have because it is rather obvious when you read the text

John 12:23–33 (LEB) — 23 And Jesus answered them, saying, “The hour has come that the Son of Man will be glorified. 24 Truly, truly I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains by itself alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit. 25 The one who loves his life loses it, and the one who hates his life in this world preserves it for eternal life. 26 If anyone serves me, he must follow me, and where I am, there my servant will be also. If anyone serves me, the Father will honor him. 27 “Now my soul is troubled, and what shall I say? ‘Father, deliver me from this hour’? But for this reason I have come to this hour! 28 Father, glorify your name!” Then a voice came from heaven, “I have both glorified it, and I will glorify it again.” 29 Now the crowd that stood there and heard it said it had thundered. Others were saying, “An angel has spoken to him!” 30 Jesus answered and said, “This voice has not happened for my sake, but for your sake. 31 Now is the judgment of this world! Now the ruler of this world will be thrown out! 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” 33 (Now he said this to indicate by what sort of death he was going to die.)