No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

[brightfame52]

Nope, drawing is by the word of God

John 6:45 (LEB) — 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who hears from the Father and learns comes to me.

And Christ draws all.

John 12:32 (LEB) — 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

Drawing is a inward power, the Spirit leading to Christ. The all of Jn 12:32 is all the Father gave Him Jn 6:37

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

if you knew your bible, you would understand its all His Sheep Jn 10

 

[brightfame52]

A person dead in trespasses and sin cannot come to Christ because he does not have the will to come, nor can he hear the Word of God John 5:40; 8:43

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 3

 

[brightfame52]

All Gods Elect and the non elect are by nature spiritually dead, dead in sin Eph 2:1,5; Col 2:13. This means that all men naturally are living without spiritual life and alienated from God. Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Col 1:21

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled.

As such we are naturally in spiritual death Rom 8:6

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

All by nature are carnal minded, that cant be helped, even if we are very pious and religous and moral.

In this state we have no affections or motion towards God Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Thats why Jesus says of man naturally Jn 6:44,65

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 4

 

[TomL]

All Gods Elect and the non elect are by nature spiritually dead, dead in sin Eph 2:1,5; Col 2:13. This means that all men naturally are living without spiritual life and alienated from God. Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

Col 1:21

And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled.

As such we are naturally in spiritual death Rom 8:6

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

All by nature are carnal minded, that cant be helped, even if we are very pious and religous and moral.

In this state we have no affections or motion towards God Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Thats why Jesus says of man naturally Jn 6:44,65

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. 4

Um after the resurrection, there was this change.

John 12:32 (LEB) — 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

Will you affirm that drawing is irresistible?

 

[brightfame52]

@TomL

Um after the resurrection, there was this change.

Man is still born to this day dead in adam. Paul wrote this Rom 5 after the resurrection of Christ.

 

[TomL]

@TomL



Man is still born to this day dead in adam. Paul wrote this Rom 5 after the resurrection of Christ.

Will you answer the question?

John 12:32 (LEB) — 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

Will you affirm that drawing is irresistible?

 

[brightfame52]

Will you answer the question?

John 12:32 (LEB) — 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

Will you affirm that drawing is irresistible?

Ive answered that a million times drawing is regeneration, and all people just means all nationalities, just not jews. I have been over this with you 40 or 50 times over the years, and so have others, Ive seen it.

 

[TomL]

Ive answered that a million times drawing is regeneration, and all people just means all nationalities, just not jews. I have been over this with you 40 or 50 times over the years, and so have others, Ive seen it.

So you believe every person has been regenerated, yet most do not believe?

John 12:32 (LEB) — 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

 

[brightfame52]

So you believe every person has been regenerated, yet most do not believe?

John 12:32 (LEB) — 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

All the elect in the world have been or will be drawn or regenerated.

 

[TomL]

All the elect in the world have been or will be drawn or regenerated.

Try again

So you believe every person has been regenerated, yet most do not believe?

John 12:32 (LEB) — 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

There is no mention of election.

 

[brightfame52]

Try again



There is no mention of election.

There is no other option, its the Sheep which are the same as the elect. Jesus tells us who He draws to Himself in Jn 10. Do you deny He specifically stated He lays down His Life for the Sheep ?

 

[TomL]

All the elect in the world have been or will be drawn or regenerated.

Um your original comment

Ive answered that a million times drawing is regeneration, and all people just means all nationalities, just not jews. I have been over this with you 40 or 50 times over the years, and so have others, Ive seen it.

John 12:32 (LEB) — 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

So you have Christ saying he will regenerate all people.

Do you still want to hold on to such a meaning for draw?

 

[TomL]

All the elect in the world have been or will be drawn or regenerated.

John 12:32 (LEB) — 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

All people are elect in your view?

You seem to be having a problem.

 

[brightfame52]

@TomL

So you have Christ saying he will regenerate all people.

Yes His Sheep

 

[brightfame52]

@TomL

All people are elect in your view?

All the elect are, you think they toads or people

 

[TomL]

@TomL



All the elect are, you think they toads or people

The verse simply states all people

John 12:32 (LEB) — 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

 

[TomL]

@TomL



Yes His Sheep

So now you think all people are his sheep.?

John 12:32 (LEB) — 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

You are getting in deep, Having all people elect and his sheep.

 

[FreeInChrist]

@TomL



Yes His Sheep

All people are not His sheep.

 

[brightfame52]

The verse simply states all people

John 12:32 (LEB) — 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

The Sheep are people from all nations/families Rev 5

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
The word every is pas the same word all in Jn 12:32 so simple, He draws His elect OUT OF all People

Its the fulfillment of the Abraham promise of salvation Gen 12:3

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

 

[TomL]

The Sheep are people from all nations/families Rev 5

9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
The word every is pas the same word all in Jn 12:32 so simple, He draws His elect OUT OF all People

Its the fulfillment of the Abraham promise of salvation Gen 12:3

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

You are still stuck with Christ's claim to draw all people.

Rev 5:9 does not help you.

Out of every kindred and tongue, not all people.