No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

[TomL]

In order for man to come to Christ he must be given motion, life, this comes by quickening. All who come to Christ have been quickened out of a dead spiritual state. Eph 2:1

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

In the original the word quickened isn't there, its derived from verse 5 and its the word suzóopoieó and means:

to make alive together with
Usage: I make alive together with.

I make that which was dead to live, cause to live, quicken.

This causing to live is giving motion to, which is the impelling aspect of drawing Jn 6:44 and 12:32

So quickening and drawing can be used interchangeably.2

This is completely false

It is the Spirit who imparts life.

And one must have faith to receive the Spirit

Galatians 3:2, 5: “I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?… So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?”


John 1:12–13 (LEB) — 12 But as many as received him—to those who believe in his name—he gave to them authority to become children of God, 13 who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of a husband, but of God.

Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)

Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Galatians 3:26 (LEB) — 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,

Acts 15:7–9 (LEB) — 7 And after there was much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Men and brothers, you know that in the early days God chose among you through my mouth that the Gentiles should hear the message of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he also did to us. 9 And he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

 

[brightfame52]

This is completely false

It is the Spirit who imparts life.

And one must have faith to receive the Spirit

Galatians 3:2, 5: “I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?… So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard?”


John 1:12–13 (LEB) — 12 But as many as received him—to those who believe in his name—he gave to them authority to become children of God, 13 who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of a husband, but of God.

Acts 2:38 (LEB) — 38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized, each one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 3:2 (LEB) — 2 I want only to learn this from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Ephesians 1:13 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,

John 7:38–39 (LEB) — 38 the one who believes in me. Just as the scripture said, ‘Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water.’ ” 39 (Now he said this concerning the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were about to receive. For the Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus had not yet been glorified.)

Galatians 3:14 (LEB) — 14 in order that the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Galatians 3:26 (LEB) — 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,

Acts 15:7–9 (LEB) — 7 And after there was much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Men and brothers, you know that in the early days God chose among you through my mouth that the Gentiles should hear the message of the gospel and believe. 8 And God, who knows the heart, testified to them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as he also did to us. 9 And he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

So quickening and drawing can be used interchangeably.

 

[TomL]

So quickening and drawing can be used interchangeably.

Nope

Quickening refers to the work of the Spirit imparting life.

Drawing is the enticement leading to truth.

 

[brightfame52]

Before a man can believe in Christ, the Spirit must first enlighten their understanding, for example Eph 1:17-18

17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

What calling, or hope of his calling ? Its the Gospel, as Col 1:4-5

4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,

5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

 

[TomL]

Before a man can believe in Christ, the Spirit must first enlighten their understanding, for example Eph 1:17-18

17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

What calling, or hope of his calling ? Its the Gospel, as Col 1:4-5

4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,

5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

Um before one receives the Spirit, one must believe in Christ.

BTW verse 17 is referencing belivers

Ephesians 1:13–14 (LEB) — 13 in whom also you, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also when you believed you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.

 

[brightfame52]

Nope

Quickening refers to the work of the Spirit imparting life.

Drawing is the enticement leading to truth.

Yes they are one and the same

 

[TomL]

Yes they are one and the same

Nope

Quickening refers to the work of the Spirit imparting life.

Drawing is the enticement leading to truth.

 

[brightfame52]

Nope

Quickening refers to the work of the Spirit imparting life.

Drawing is the enticement leading to truth.

Yes drawing and regeneration are one and the same, its the good work begun in the elect Phil 1:6

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

 

[TomL]

Yes drawing and regeneration are one and the same, its the good work begun in the elect Phil 1:6

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Nope

Quickening refers to the work of the Spirit imparting life.

Drawing is the enticement leading to truth.

 

[Kampioen]

Yes drawing and regeneration are one and the same, its the good work begun in the elect Phil 1:6

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

But Christians can sin, which is not a good work and not God's work. Correct?

But it being true that God works in us too, that proves synergism.

 

[TomL]

Yes drawing and regeneration are one and the same, its the good work begun in the elect Phil 1:6

6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Um nothing in that statement makes regeneration and drawing the same thing.

And regeneration is a result of having been drawn to Christ.

As a side note, the day of Christ is not a reference to one's first entrance into Christ.

The day of Christ, on which God will bring his work in them to completion, points to the final consummation of salvation at Christ’s (now second) coming. The reason for this otherwise digressive clause is probably related to another concern that surfaces at several points in the letter: that some of them have apparently begun to lose the basic future orientation that marks all truly Christian life. In 3:15–17 they are urged to follow Paul’s example of desiring to know Christ above all (3:6–11) and eagerly to pursue the prize of knowing him fully at the end (vv. 12–14). Here Paul anticipates that exhortation by focusing on God’s own commitment to bring them to completion on the day of Christ.

Gordon D. Fee, Philippians (vol. 11; The IVP New Testament Commentary Series; Westmont, IL: IVP Academic, 1999), 48.

 

[civic]

Yes they are one and the same

no they are not. one is external work and one is internal work.

The verb translated “to draw” or “to drag” appears eight times: John 6:44; John 12:32; John 18:10; John 21:6; John 21:11; Acts 16:19; Acts 21:30; James 2:6. Its range stretches from the violent seizing of people, to the hauling of fish, to the gracious attraction of sinners to Christ.

John 6:65
And He was saying, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

The Calvinist tries and bypass the reason Jesus gives in Jesus statement above that no one can come to Him unless it has been granted by the Father. They read tulip into the statement and it has nothing whatsoever to to with total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement or irresistible grace.

Here is the reason given by Jesus below in the previous verse. This answers the why question.

John 6:64- Yet there are some of you who do not believe.”

Those who are drawn are already believers. Those who listen and learn from the father. See below.

John 6:44-45
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God. Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

Believers are drawn and believers come to the Son, not unbelievers.

Calvinists your pet passage in John 6 has been dismantled. Believe Jesus not your teachers, theologians, Calvin.

conclusion: those who are drawn to Jesus and come to Him are those who already believe ( not depraved unbelievers who must be regenerated first ) and have heard and learned from the Father.

hope this helps !!!

 

[TomL]

no they are not. one is external work and one is internal work.

The verb translated “to draw” or “to drag” appears eight times: John 6:44; John 12:32; John 18:10; John 21:6; John 21:11; Acts 16:19; Acts 21:30; James 2:6. Its range stretches from the violent seizing of people, to the hauling of fish, to the gracious attraction of sinners to Christ.

John 6:65
And He was saying, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

The Calvinist tries and bypass the reason Jesus gives in Jesus statement above that no one can come to Him unless it has been granted by the Father. They read tulip into the statement and it has nothing whatsoever to to with total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement or irresistible grace.

Here is the reason given by Jesus below in the previous verse. This answers the why question.

John 6:64- Yet there are some of you who do not believe.”

Those who are drawn are already believers. Those who listen and learn from the father. See below.

John 6:44-45
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God. Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

Believers are drawn and believers come to the Son, not unbelievers.

Calvinists your pet passage in John 6 has been dismantled. Believe Jesus not your teachers, theologians, Calvin.

conclusion: those who are drawn to Jesus and come to Him are those who already believe ( not depraved unbelievers who must be regenerated first ) and have heard and learned from the Father.

hope this helps !!!

Absolutely correct. God gave to Christ those that were his. Such did hear and did believe God and come to Christ.

This transpired during the earthly presence of Christ.

After the resurrection, Jesus stated.

John 12:32 (LEB) — 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

 

[civic]

Absolutely correct. God gave to Christ those that were his. Such did hear and did believe God and come to Christ.

This transpired during the earthly presence of Christ.

After the resurrection, Jesus stated.

John 12:32 (LEB) — 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

Amen !!!

 

[brightfame52]

Nope

Quickening refers to the work of the Spirit imparting life.

Drawing is the enticement leading to truth.

Yes, drawing is the beginning of Gods work in a person who is regenerated. Regeneration and quickening are one, its all Spiritual life began

 

[brightfame52]

But Christians can sin, which is not a good work and not God's work. Correct?

But it being true that God works in us too, that proves synergism.

You off on a rabbit trail

 

[brightfame52]

Um nothing in that statement makes regeneration and drawing the same thing.

And regeneration is a result of having been drawn to Christ.

As a side note, the day of Christ is not a reference to one's first entrance into Christ.

The day of Christ, on which God will bring his work in them to completion, points to the final consummation of salvation at Christ’s (now second) coming. The reason for this otherwise digressive clause is probably related to another concern that surfaces at several points in the letter: that some of them have apparently begun to lose the basic future orientation that marks all truly Christian life. In 3:15–17 they are urged to follow Paul’s example of desiring to know Christ above all (3:6–11) and eagerly to pursue the prize of knowing him fully at the end (vv. 12–14). Here Paul anticipates that exhortation by focusing on God’s own commitment to bring them to completion on the day of Christ.

Gordon D. Fee, Philippians (vol. 11; The IVP New Testament Commentary Series; Westmont, IL: IVP Academic, 1999), 48.

Drawing is an inward compelling power of God, thats the Spirit, life has been imparted.

 

[brightfame52]

no they are not. one is external work and one is internal work.

The verb translated “to draw” or “to drag” appears eight times: John 6:44; John 12:32; John 18:10; John 21:6; John 21:11; Acts 16:19; Acts 21:30; James 2:6. Its range stretches from the violent seizing of people, to the hauling of fish, to the gracious attraction of sinners to Christ.

John 6:65
And He was saying, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

The Calvinist tries and bypass the reason Jesus gives in Jesus statement above that no one can come to Him unless it has been granted by the Father. They read tulip into the statement and it has nothing whatsoever to to with total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement or irresistible grace.

Here is the reason given by Jesus below in the previous verse. This answers the why question.

John 6:64- Yet there are some of you who do not believe.”

Those who are drawn are already believers. Those who listen and learn from the father. See below.

John 6:44-45
“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God. Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

Believers are drawn and believers come to the Son, not unbelievers.

Calvinists your pet passage in John 6 has been dismantled. Believe Jesus not your teachers, theologians, Calvin.

conclusion: those who are drawn to Jesus and come to Him are those who already believe ( not depraved unbelievers who must be regenerated first ) and have heard and learned from the Father.

hope this helps !!!

drawing is an inward power, must be understood in its metaphorical sense

2. metaphorically, to draw by inward power, lead, impel: John 6:44 (so in Greek also; as ἐπιθυμίας ... ἑλκουσης ἐπί ἡδονάς, Plato, Phaedr., p. 238 a.; ὑπό τῆς ἡδονῆς ἑλκόμενοι, Aelian h. a. 6, 31; likewise 4 Macc. 14:13; 15:8 (11).trahitsuaquemquevoluptas, Vergil, ecl. 2, 65); πάντας ἑλκύσω πρός ἐμαυτόν, I by my moral, my spiritual, influence will win over to myself the hearts of all, John 12:32.

 

[TomL]

Drawing is an inward compelling power of God, thats the Spirit, life has been imparted.

Nope, drawing is by the word of God

John 6:45 (LEB) — 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who hears from the Father and learns comes to me.

And Christ draws all.

John 12:32 (LEB) — 32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

 

[TomL]

Yes, drawing is the beginning of Gods work in a person who is regenerated. Regeneration and quickening are one, its all Spiritual life began

Nope, drawing is the beginning of bringing one to Christ; then if one believes, then one receives the Spirit who gives life.