No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

"Savingly" means either with frugality or economy (like saving money) or, in a religious context, in a way that leads to salvation. An example of the first meaning is "He lived savingly to pay for his house," while an example of the second is "He was savingly converted".

With frugality:
To act in a thrifty or economical way, or with parsimony.
Example: "She spent her money savingly to buy a new car."

With the promise of salvation: In a manner that saves from eternal death, often used in a religious sense.
Example: "The sermon spoke of being savingly redeemed from sin."
AI
 
TOTAL DEPRAVITY:
Total depravity is a theological doctrine asserting that the human nature is corrupted by sin to the extent that people are spiritually unable to choose God or believe in Christ on their own without divine intervention. It does not mean that people are as evil as they could possibly be, but rather that every part of their being—mind, body, and spirit—is affected by sin and incapable of yielding spiritual good apart from God's grace. This inability means a person's will is enslaved to sin, and their desires are contrary to God.​
That is what I just stated.

Calvinism holds the intervention needed is regeneration - being made alive spiritually

One must be made alive so he can believe to be made alive.

It is unbiblical

Those who do not believe will not see life according to scripture

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”

1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.

So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe
 
"Savingly" means either with frugality or economy (like saving money) or, in a religious context, in a way that leads to salvation. An example of the first meaning is "He lived savingly to pay for his house," while an example of the second is "He was savingly converted".

With frugality:
To act in a thrifty or economical way, or with parsimony.
Example: "She spent her money savingly to buy a new car."

With the promise of salvation: In a manner that saves from eternal death, often used in a religious sense.
Example: "The sermon spoke of being savingly redeemed from sin."
AI
See Christ death and Resurrection ensures them He died for are savingly converted.
 
Not true. He died for every soul ever created ( John 2:2).
... and failed MISERABLY to achieve the goal of saving "every soul ever created". :(

Note ... 1 John 2:2 [KJV] And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for [the sins of] the whole world.
 
1 John 2:2 Exposition by John Gill:

1 John 2:2
And he is the propitiation for our sins


For the sins of us who now believe, and are Jews:

and not for ours only;
but for the sins of Old Testament saints, and of those who shall hereafter believe in Christ, and of the Gentiles also, signified in the next clause:

but also for [the sins] of the whole world;
the Syriac version renders it, "not for us only, but also for the whole world"; that is, not for the Jews only, for John was a Jew, and so were those he wrote unto, but for the Gentiles also. Nothing is more common in Jewish writings than to call the Gentiles (amle) , "the world"; and (Mlweh lk) , "the whole world"; and (Mlweh twmwa) , "the nations of the world"; (See Gill on 12:19); and the word "world" is so used in Scripture; see ( John 3:16 ) ( 4:42 ) ( Romans 11:12 Romans 11:15 ) ; and stands opposed to a notion the Jews have of the Gentiles, that (hrpk Nhl Nya) , "there is no propitiation for them": and it is easy to observe, that when this phrase is not used of the Gentiles, it is to be understood in a limited and restrained sense; as when they say,

``it happened to a certain high priest, that when he went out of the sanctuary, (amle ylwk) , "the whole world" went after him;''

which could only design the people in the temple. And elsewhere it is said,

``(amle ylwk) , "the "whole world" has left the Misna, and gone after the "Gemara";''

which at most can only intend the Jews; and indeed only a majority of their doctors, who were conversant with these writings: and in another place,

``(amle ylwk) , "the whole world" fell on their faces, but Raf did not fall on his face;''

where it means no more than the congregation. Once more, it is said {q}, when

``R. Simeon ben Gamaliel entered (the synagogue), (amle ylwk) , "the whole world" stood up before him;''

that is, the people in the synagogue: to which may be added,

``when a great man makes a mourning, (amle ylwk) , "the whole world" come to honour him;''

i.e. a great number of persons attend the funeral pomp: and so these phrases, (ygylp al amle ylwk) , "the whole world" is not divided, or does not dissent; (yrbo amle ylwk) , "the whole world" are of opinion, are frequently met with in the Talmud, by which, an agreement among the Rabbins, in certain points, is designed; yea, sometimes the phrase, "all the men of the world", only intend the inhabitants of a city where a synagogue was, and, at most, only the Jews: and so this phrase, "all the world", or "the whole world", in Scripture, unless when it signifies the whole universe, or the habitable earth, is always used in a limited sense, either for the Roman empire, or the churches of Christ in the world, or believers, or the present inhabitants of the world, or a part of them only, ( Luke 2:1 ) ( Romans 1:8 ) ( 3:19 ) ( Colossians 1:6 ) ( Revelation 3:10 ) ( 12:9 ) ( 13:3 ) ; and so it is in this epistle, ( 1 John 5:19 ) ; where the whole world lying in wickedness is manifestly distinguished from the saints, who are of God, and belong not to the world; and therefore cannot be understood of all the individuals in the world; and the like distinction is in this text itself, for "the sins of the whole world" are opposed to "our sins", the sins of the apostle and others to whom he joins himself; who therefore belonged not to, nor were a part of the whole world, for whose sins Christ is a propitiation as for theirs: so that this passage cannot furnish out any argument for universal redemption; for besides these things, it may be further observed, that for whose sins Christ is a propitiation, their sins are atoned for and pardoned, and their persons justified from all sin, and so shall certainly be glorified, which is not true of the whole world, and every man and woman in it; moreover, Christ is a propitiation through faith in his blood, the benefit of his propitiatory sacrifice is only received and enjoyed through faith; so that in the event it appears that Christ is a propitiation only for believers, a character which does not agree with all mankind; add to this, that for whom Christ is a propitiation he is also an advocate, ( 1 John 2:1 ) ; but he is not an advocate for every individual person in the world; yea, there is a world he will not pray for ( John 17:9 ) , and consequently is not a propitiation for them. Once more, the design of the apostle in these words is to comfort his "little children" with the advocacy and propitiatory sacrifice of Christ, who might fall into sin through weakness and inadvertency; but what comfort would it yield to a distressed mind, to be told that Christ was a propitiation not only for the sins of the apostles and other saints, but for the sins of every individual in the world, even of these that are in hell? Would it not be natural for persons in such circumstances to argue rather against, than for themselves, and conclude that seeing persons might be damned notwithstanding the propitiatory sacrifice of Christ, that this might, and would be their case. In what sense Christ is a propitiation, (See Gill on Romans 3:25). The Jews have no notion of the Messiah as a propitiation or atonement; sometimes they say repentance atones for all sin; sometimes the death of the righteous; sometimes incense; sometimes the priests' garments; sometimes it is the day of atonement; and indeed they are in the utmost puzzle about atonement; and they even confess in their prayers, that they have now neither altar nor priest to atone for them; (See Gill on 1 John 4:10).
 
...even those who were condemned already, eh? <sigh>
We are all condemned till we accept Jesus. This statement reflects the Christian belief that without accepting Jesus Christ as their savior, people are considered "condemned" due to sin, and that accepting Him removes this condemnation. This view is based on interpretations of scripture, such as John 3:18, which states that those who do not believe are already condemned. The belief is that accepting Jesus offers a way to be "saved" and to avoid future judgment by having Jesus's righteousness credited to the believer.
 
We are all condemned till we accept Jesus. This statement reflects the Christian belief that without accepting Jesus Christ as their savior, people are considered "condemned" due to sin, and that accepting Him removes this condemnation. This view is based on interpretations of scripture, such as John 3:18, which states that those who do not believe are already condemned. The belief is that accepting Jesus offers a way to be "saved" and to avoid future judgment by having Jesus's righteousness credited to the believer.
I think he was referring to someone like the Maccabees or the Rich man in the story Jesus told about Lazarus and the rich man ... people who had already died in their sins. "Every soul ever created" would include them. [... but I could be wrong - I suck at mind reading] ;)
 
The Cross work of Christ actually saved them He died for, and He was raised for their Justification Rom 4:25
Did Paul contradict himself; did he change his mind between chapters 4 and 10? Rom 10 is a more detailed description of Rom 4. Rom 4 cannot mean something different than Rom 10, which unambiguously states justification is the result of faith!


Doug
 
Nobody in our conversation, that is you and I, claims man can initiate his salvation. I am not a semi-Pelagian!

God initiated the means of salvation; he reaches out to us; we can only respond to his overture.

Doug
Please educate me (as stated, I suck at reading minds) ....

Given: SEMI-PELAGIANISM
Semi-Pelagianism is a theological view that teaches humans can take the initial steps toward salvation through their own free will, while God's grace is still needed to complete the process. It presents a middle ground between Pelagianism (which denies original sin and emphasizes human ability) and Augustine's view (which emphasizes total human dependence on God's grace for salvation). The core idea is that humans have a residual ability to seek God, but they require divine aid to be saved.​
Core tenets of Semi-Pelagianism:​
  • Partial human initiative: Individuals can initiate their salvation through their own will and effort, even though they are born with original sin.
  • Cooperation between God and man: Salvation is a collaborative effort, where humans start the process and God's grace sustains it.
  • Residual ability after the Fall: Despite being corrupted by original sin, humanity retains a measure of ability to seek God on its own.
  • Grace is not always primary: Unlike strict Augustinianism, this view suggests that God's grace isn't always the initial, indispensable force that enables a person to respond to the Gospel.
Q2: How is your view of "FREE WILL" different from the definition of "SEMI-PELAGIANISM" quoted above?
 
Did Paul contradict himself; did he change his mind between chapters 4 and 10? Rom 10 is a more detailed description of Rom 4. Rom 4 cannot mean something different than Rom 10, which unambiguously states justification is the result of faith!


Doug
No Paul didn't contradict himself, Christ was raised for our justification if he died for our trespasses.
 
Not true. He died for every soul ever created ( John 2:2).
Amen

Christ died

1. For all (1 Tim. 2:6; Isa. 53:6).

1 Timothy 2:6 (NASB 95) — 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony given at the proper time.

Isaiah 53:6 (NASB 95) — 6 All of us like sheep have gone astray, Each of us has turned to his own way; But the LORD has caused the iniquity of us all To fall on Him.

2. For every man (Heb. 2:9).

Hebrews 2:9 (NASB 95) — 9 But we do see Him who was made for a little while lower than the angels, namely, Jesus, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that by the grace of God He might taste death for everyone.

3. For the world (John 3:16).

John 3:16 (NASB 95) — 16 “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

4. For the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2).

1 John 2:2 (NASB 95) — 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

5. For the ungodly (Rom. 5:6).

Romans 5:6 (NASB 95) — 6 For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.

6. For false teachers (2 Peter 2:1).

2 Peter 2:1 (NASB 95) — 1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

7. For many (Matt. 20:28).

Matthew 20:28 (NASB 95) — 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

8. For Israel (John 11:50–51).

John 11:50–51 (NASB 95) — 50 nor do you take into account that it is expedient for you that one man die for the people, and that the whole nation not perish.” 51 Now he did not say this on his own initiative, but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus was going to die for the nation,

9. For the Church (Eph. 5:25).

Ephesians 5:25 (NASB 95) — 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her,

10. For "Paul" (Gal. 2:20).

Galatians 2:20 (NASB 95) — 20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself
 
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