No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

[TedT]

PS. Humans were not there during all the creation.

No, Job 38:7 doesn't say all humans, but it does say ALL the sons of GOD...and humans are the sinful sons of GOD, both elect and reprobate sons, that were flung to the earth Rev 12:4-9 and sown into, not created into, mankind, Matt 13:36-39.

You are the one who says all means all, after all.

 

[TomL]

No, Job 38:7 doesn't say all humans, but it does say ALL the sons of GOD...and humans are the sinful sons of GOD, both elect and reprobate sons, that were flung to the earth Rev 12:4-9 and sown into, not created into, mankind, Matt 13:36-39.

You are the one who says all means all, after all.

And so?

Did you know for example.

Job 38:7 (NIV) — 7 while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?

There is a legitimate objection to any reference to human as they were not existing until the end of creation.

 

[TomL]

So, gonna ignore Job 38:7 altogether because it doesn't fit your preconceptions and theology??? Hmmm...

Nope, read.

Job 38:7 (NIV) — 7 while the morning stars sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?

Surely you know mankind was not existing during the start of creation.

 

[TomL]

I'm interpreting scripture with scripture. The all also is all the Father gives Him Jn 6 37 which is not all mankind without exception.

You never interpret scripture with scripture. Rather you interpret scripture based upon your assumed theology.

Ignoring what scripture states.

Hebrews 2:9 (LEB) — 9 but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.

2 Corinthians 5:14–15 (KJV 1900) — 14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: 15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.



A ransom for all, as God desires the salvation of all people

1 Timothy 2:3–6 (LEB) — 3 This is good and acceptable before God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and human beings, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, the testimony at the proper time,

He was therefore making propitiation for all the world's sin

1 John 2:2 (LEB) — 2 and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Christ is therefore a savior for all the world

1 John 4:14 (LEB) — 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Titus 2:11 (LEB) — 11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

1 Timothy 4:10 (LEB) — 10 For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.

 

[TomL]

I do Jn 10 provided who Christ is lifted up for!

Christ is lifted up for all

Christ having died

1. For all (1 Tim. 2:6; Isa. 53:6).

2. For every man (Heb. 2:9).

3. For the world (John 3:16).

4. For the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2).

5. For the ungodly (Rom. 5:6).

6. For false teachers (2 Peter 2:1).

7. For many (Matt. 20:28).

8. For Israel (John 11:50–51).

9. For the Church (Eph. 5:25).

10. For Paul (Gal. 2:20).

 

[civic]

Of the Sheep

No sheep in John 12, nice try. He draws all men not all sheep

 

[brightfame52]

You never interpret scripture with scripture.

I do Jn 12 32 is all the Sheep, so is Heb 2:9 Why you think He rose as the Great Shepherd of the Sheep Heb 13:20

20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

 

[TomL]

No It's interpreting scripture with scripture. Jesus specified who He was going to die for in Jn 10 several paragraphs earlier, why would it Change?

Sorry, no, unless you can actually show a verse that states what you believe you are arguing based upon the assumption of your theology.

And that is what you constantly do.

 

[TomL]

No It's interpreting scripture with scripture. Jesus specified who He was going to die for in Jn 10 several paragraphs earlier, why would it Change?

So if scripture states he died for Paul, you would assume he died only for Paul

Galatians 2:20 (NIV) — 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

And you would ignore other verses showing he died for others?

That would be some pretty poor argumentation.

 

[TomL]

No sheep in John 12, nice try. He draws all men not all sheep

That is him arguing based upon the needs of his assumed theology rather than scripture.

 

[Angelo]

That is him arguing based upon the needs of his assumed theology rather than scripture.

I can hear him.

 

[TomL]

I'm interpreting scripture with scripture. The all also is all the Father gives Him Jn 6 37 which is not all mankind without exception.

Nope, you are not interpreting scripture with scripture but interpreting scripture according to your assumed theology,

2 Cor 5:14–15For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one died for all; as a result all died. And he died for all, in order that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for the one who died for them and was raised.

1 John 2:2and he is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Tim 2:5–6For there is one God and one mediator between God and human beings, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all, the testimony at the proper time,

Heb 2:9but we see Jesus, for a short time made lower than the angels, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, so that apart from God he might taste death on behalf of everyone.

1 Tim 4:10For to this end we labor and suffer reproach, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of believers.

Titus 2:11For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all people,

Rom 8:32Indeed, he who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all, how will he not also, together with him, freely give us all things?

1 John 4:14And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Col 1:19–20because he was well pleased for all the fullness to dwell in him, and through him to reconcile all things to himself, by making peace through the blood of his cross, through him, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

 

[civic]

That is him arguing based upon the needs of his assumed theology rather than scripture.

Ditto reading into scripture the invisible ink/ words of one’s theology

 

[brightfame52]

Sorry, no, unless you can actually show a verse that states what you believe you are arguing based upon the assumption of your theology.

And that is what you constantly do.

I interpret Scripture with scripture

 

[brightfame52]

So if scripture states he died for Paul, you would assume he died only for Paul

I assumed Paul was a Sheep, there are many people that are Sheep

 

[brightfame52]

Nope, you are not interpreting scripture with scripture but interpreting scripture according to your assumed theology,

I interpret Scripture with scripture. Any scripture that is about Christ dying for someone, it's interpreted by Jn 10 where Specifics were spoken forth.

 

[TomL]

I interpret Scripture with scripture. Any scripture that is about Christ dying for someone, it's interpreted by Jn 10 where Specifics were spoken forth.

Sorry you are ignoring multiple verses, which is not interpreting scripture by scripture.

T

Post in thread 'No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !'

Today at 1:11 PM

I'm interpreting scripture with scripture. The all also is all the Father gives Him Jn 6 37 which is not all mankind without exception.

Nope, you are not interpreting scripture with scripture but interpreting scripture according to your assumed theology,

2 Cor 5:14–15For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that one died for all; as a result all died. And he died for all, in order that those who live should no longer live for themselves, but for the one who died for them and was raised.

1 John 2:2and he is the propitiation for our sins, and...

• TomL

• 

 

[TomL]

I assumed Paul was a Sheep, there are many people that are Sheep

You did not answer the question.

Can you assume from that verse alone Paul was the only one Christ died for, or do you need to read all the verses that speak of Christ dying?

 

[TomL]

I assumed Paul was a Sheep, there are many people that are Sheep

Paul does not say he was a sheep but

Do you then assume the sheep may be spoken of as the whole world or everyone?