DavidTree
Active Member
Thank you for the encouragement
Member Comments on Current Debates
- Thread starter Administrator
- Start date
FreeInChrist
Active Member
IOW the same old forum .? IDC. That is fine.
Peter started it yesterday and then Runningman jumped in and even a comment from Keiw1
Peter started with a different subject but Thank God 360watt is moving it back to the title.
The rest of the other side seems to be not in this one but elsewhere.
Go @360watt 
FreeInChrist
Active Member
My understanding is not until the end of the week, for 3 days back Monday.
And no it is not.... you just said
Your reply #14 there " The question is not is Jesus God. The question is why would God come to the earth as a man?"
You were told the debate was to be on Jesus is God yes or no.
You swapped it out because you know there is scripture proof that says He is/was
No wonder you were picking my brain in a DM... you wanted to forearm yourself with what to expect
from the other side.
Now I understand why you always make your comments and threads blue.
I still call foul
Looks good to me.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Well @David Tree, @Administrator and @civic
See link https://berean-apologetics.communit...-jesus-christ-true-or-false.2726/#post-189639
While you all are deciding on how to proceed and what limitations there are, @Peterlag already started, yesterday, with @Runningman and A comment by @Keiw1 and @360watt because I informed all of the other team about this last night and only 360watt
is now in the mix.
Right here https://berean-apologetics.communit...-jesus-christ-true-or-false.2726/#post-189639
So be it. 360watt is doing great
against the 2 main on the other side.When you finally get this figured out Red should be told, and of course David here should be told. By that time 360 and the opposition may be done.... though I suppose the current debaters should be told also.
In the meantime I am
Link reminder https://berean-apologetics.communit...-jesus-christ-true-or-false.2726/#post-189639
Toodles
civic
Active Member
@Peterlag
Leviticus 26:9-13
“‘I will look on you with favor and make you fruitful and increase your numbers, and I will keep my covenant with you. 10You will still be eating last year’s harvest when you will have to move it out to make room for the new. 11 I will put my dwelling place among you, and I will not abhor you. 12 I will walk among you and be your God, and you will be my people. 13 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt so that you would no longer be slaves to the Egyptians; I broke the bars of your yoke and enabled you to walk with heads held high.
Now cf the above with the following passages which confirm God will in the future walk among His people just like He did with adam in the garden.
Jeremiah 32:38
Ezekiel 37:27
2 Corinthians 6:16
hope this helps !!!
Peterlag
Active Member
You contacted me on the DM. I did not contact you. If Jesus is God. Then there has to be a reason for that. I'm looking for that reason. God would not just come to the earth as a man for nothing.
DavidTree
Active Member
EXACTLY the Truth of Who JESUS actually IS = HE came to earth to bring Salvation to man.
Peterlag
Active Member
Is there a verse that says God came to the earth to bring Salvation to men?
civic
Active Member
I gave you several of them and remember Jesus said emphatically “ no man has seen the Father”
And we know God walked in the garden with Adam. And we know it was not the Father.
The Unitarians have no answer. It’s impossible for any Unitarian in the world to win this debate. It’s a done deal for the Trinitarians.
I have yet to meet any Unitarian in my 40 years debating them who can give a biblical answer unless they admit Jesus is God
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Yes I did.
I was trying to move the debate no one now is responding in to be ready. AND WAS ASKING FOR YOUR HELP.
Here is the complete postings of everything I said to you in that DM and your replies.
Rhere is no private information here, it could have been out in the forums but
I asked him for unreceived help and he took it here.
It is open to the public.
Subject:
I am aging asking for your help this time.
MEMonday at 1:34 PM
Red has 2 others to be in the debate with him.
He wants to know if you can get either Runningman or Keiw1 to your side, and lacking
either of these is there anyone else you want?
I am so convinced this is more difficult then when they were lining up for the first Trump debate.
I only hope I live long enough to see it to its conclusion. (No I am fine, I am just thinkig
of timeLOL )
YOU
Monday at 1:39 PM
I have already asked @Runningman
ME
Monday at 1:41 PM
My mistake... I was going to correct but you saw beforeI could
He said Studyman or @Keiw1
That would give you each 3.
i admitted a mistake
YOU
Monday at 3:17 PM
We are not going to get very far since I have asked only one question that none of them seem able to answer.
Like Quote Reply
Report
ME
Yesterday at 2:58 AM
Never mind, I'll ask Study man myself, as he likes to PM with me. (Until I cut it off)
Anyway... what question did you ask them that they will not answer.
If I have an answer for you I will answer it here.
YOU change the subject...... and gave me no help.
YOU
Yesterday at 6:08 AM
Why did God come to the earth as a man? What did that produce?
ME
Yesterday at 7:10 AM
Okay. Ill try to be as concise as I can.
I did run out of room but you will understand I believe.
YOU
Yesterday at 9:00 AM
What I see from you is a rhetorical tactic being deployed here known as the Gish Gallop. It's a debate strategy where one side fires off a massive amount of arguments, points, and claims all in one post with the clear intent to overwhelm and exhaust anyone trying to respond. The purpose of the Gish Gallop is to flood the conversation with so many points that nobody can reasonably address them all, creating the false impression that their arguments are insurmountable or that the other side has no answers.
ME
Yesterday at 10:48 AM
You have already used this very same thing on me in the forum.
Let me condense this for you.
Why did He come to earth.
For our salvation because if He did not shed His blood as our sacrifice none of us would be,
YOU
Yesterday at 11:10 AM
Can we look at one verse at a time and not throw 25 up onto a wall and hope one might stick?
ME
Yesterday at 11:22 AM
Starting at the beginning.
Do you agree "A. Animal sacrifices were commanded by God so that the individual could experience forgiveness of sin. The animal served as a substitute—that is, the animal died in place of the sinner, but only temporarily, which is why the sacrifices needed to be offered over and over.
If not, why not
YOU
Yesterday at 12:30 PM
Seems about right. The Old Testament is really not my thing.
ME
Yesterday at 1:21 PM
But unless you understand that God set up the sacrifice thing for the temporary forgiveness of sins the entire reason that Jesus had to come to earth is moot.
He set it up , but it was only temporary. As soon as they would sin again, then another sacrifice was needed.
As I said in point B. My second point .... Since human sin leads to death, .....( And we all should know this. God told Adam do not eat from the fruit or he/they would die. He just did not explain it would be a spiritual death. ) so sacrifice became an outward demonstration of innocence taking the place of the guilty: an animal’s life shed for the sinner’s penalty. Hebrews 9:22 states it directly: “Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.”
Are you still in agreement.
You wanted one verse at a time... You need one thought at a time
YOU
Yesterday at 1:42 PM
This is all I know about Hebrews. Many verses but one thought. The sin stuff that you brought up...
Hebrews 9:6
Hebrews 9:22
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
This also had a lot of scriptures from you that I cut here do to length.
ME
Yesterday at 1:54 PM
Very good....
Now.... Can you relate these things to the permanent sacrifice the Son of God made for you and me? It is all about sin, and our Heavenly Father gave you , me, and everyone who accepts it a way out. By the blood of His Son.
And this is why He came to earth.
It fulfilled OT prophesy as he was their messiah even though most did not acknowledge it.
But He tried. He originally came for only the lost sheep of Israel. Then he sent the disciples out to teach but they had to avoid the Gentiles and Samaritan cities....
And when that failed because satan had too strong a hold on things... eventually it came down to you and me and Runningman, and even Red Baker.....
He came to be our perpetual sacrifice.
Do you need to go over scriptures? They all point to this.
YOU
Yesterday at 2:08 PM
It does not say He came to the earth. It says His son.
Go back to your question and you will see YOU asked " Why did God come to the earth as a man? What did that produce?"
For me who knows Jesus is God it was natural to answer your question.
ME
Yesterday at 2:10 PM
Jesus came to earth. Happy?
And that ended things and I had to cut scriptures out due to length
Peterlag
Active Member
The context (I think everyone agrees on) is why did God come down to the earth to be beat up, spit on, and killed. What would that accomplish for God to be doing that?
FreeInChrist
Active Member
This was recently posted on the debate.
@360watt , @DavidTree @Red
The same question over and over and even to me.
PEOPLE... THIS IS A TRICK QUESTION.
He does not believe Jesus was God.... He corrected me that God did not come to earth even when that is his question.
One has to point to the fact that Jesus is God, therefore God came to earth.... for our salvation. That is as simple as I can say it.
To be our perpetual sacrifice
Yours is a trick question because you nor your mate there believes that God ever came as a man because you do not believe in the divinity of Christ Jesus. You asked me the very same question and when I was about 2/3 of the way through my answers
you said God did not come to earth.
It is a trick , but the joke is on you because there are many verses in the New Testament that state Jesus is God.
And if you are going to try and say not specifically in those words... I would remind you that the woman you live with who you call your wife could be denied by some as being your wife if you introduce her as say my better half, or by her first name, or tell someone on the phone that you have to wait until the little woman finishes making dinner.
Even to your best buddy, if you dont say Mrs. Peterlag is going shopping while we are golfing, or my wife is going to be paining the bedroom while we are bowling... IF YOU dont do this that woman in your house is merely your room mate.
Did you have to get a real ID? What did your wife have to take to show her name different then her maiden?
Needed written proof....
So get off your high horse and get in the real world and know that we were not made Stepford people and no one talks or write
by automation that every reference of proof need be the same.....
Every single time you ask this answered question I wonder about your IQ and how low it might go.
Look... Everyone of us has answered your question that was asked to divert from the original topic.
You have had all sorts of answers that you do not understand.... obviously.
All those answers pointed to the very same reason.... which you also do not understand... obviously.
Or it keeps the subject on the back burner.
Now, before I run out of room and before you stop reading due to length and then give me the following
Which you have done 3 times now... and I do have it memorized... and should have shot it back to you when you gave me all those Hebrew scriptures with commentary
The Trins have won the debate because YOU cannot prove their answers to be incorrect.
@360watt , @DavidTree @Red
Peterlag
Active Member
May I ask what verse from above says why God would come to the Earth as a man? Perhaps it's in the first two verses you listed below...
The same question over and over and even to me.
PEOPLE... THIS IS A TRICK QUESTION.
He does not believe Jesus was God.... He corrected me that God did not come to earth even when that is his question.
One has to point to the fact that Jesus is God, therefore God came to earth.... for our salvation. That is as simple as I can say it.
To be our perpetual sacrifice
Because you were not alive to be our sacrificial lamb.
Yours is a trick question because you nor your mate there believes that God ever came as a man because you do not believe in the divinity of Christ Jesus. You asked me the very same question and when I was about 2/3 of the way through my answers
you said God did not come to earth.
It is a trick , but the joke is on you because there are many verses in the New Testament that state Jesus is God.
And if you are going to try and say not specifically in those words... I would remind you that the woman you live with who you call your wife could be denied by some as being your wife if you introduce her as say my better half, or by her first name, or tell someone on the phone that you have to wait until the little woman finishes making dinner.
Even to your best buddy, if you dont say Mrs. Peterlag is going shopping while we are golfing, or my wife is going to be paining the bedroom while we are bowling... IF YOU dont do this that woman in your house is merely your room mate.
Did you have to get a real ID? What did your wife have to take to show her name different then her maiden?
Needed written proof....
So get off your high horse and get in the real world and know that we were not made Stepford people and no one talks or write
by automation that every reference of proof need be the same.....
Every single time you ask this answered question I wonder about your IQ and how low it might go.
Look... Everyone of us has answered your question that was asked to divert from the original topic.
You have had all sorts of answers that you do not understand.... obviously.
All those answers pointed to the very same reason.... which you also do not understand... obviously.
Or it keeps the subject on the back burner.
Now, before I run out of room and before you stop reading due to length and then give me the following
Which you have done 3 times now... and I do have it memorized... and should have shot it back to you when you gave me all those Hebrew scriptures with commentary
The Trins have won the debate because YOU cannot prove their answers to be incorrect.
DavidTree
Active Member
YES
FreeInChrist
Active Member
@Peterlag
You said in your debate post 100 " Then we have a problem. A big problem. Because Jesus could have sinned and was tempted to sin. And God cannot sin or even be tempted to sin.
Why do you think Jesus had to empty himself?
In Phil 2: 6-7
6 Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in human likeness.
Jesus "emptied Himself" to take on the form of a servant and to fulfill the will of the Father, demonstrating humility and obedience, even to the point of death on the cross. This act, known as kenosis, reflects His willingness to submit to God's plan .
Hebrews 4"15
pepeirasmenon
having been tempted.
"Pepeirasmenon" is a Greek term that means "tempted" and refers to being tested or enticed, particularly in the context of experiencing temptation without succumbing to sin.
"Pepeirasmenon" is derived from the Greek word "peira," which means trial or test, and it refers to being tested or tempted. In the context of the New Testament, it often describes the act of being tested in various ways, including moral and spiritual challenges.
So @Peterlag ... God the Son was tested, after emptying himself, so that By becoming human, Jesus could fully relate to human experiences, suffering, and temptations. This allowed Him to serve as a mediator between God and humanity.
AND
Fulfillment of Prophecy: His self-emptying was part of God's plan for salvation, fulfilling Old Testament prophecies about the Messiah.
AND
Submission to the Father: Jesus voluntarily submitted to the will of God the Father. He demonstrated obedience, even to the point of death on the cross.
You said in your debate post 100 " Then we have a problem. A big problem. Because Jesus could have sinned and was tempted to sin. And God cannot sin or even be tempted to sin.
Why do you think Jesus had to empty himself?
In Phil 2: 6-7
6 Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in human likeness.
Jesus "emptied Himself" to take on the form of a servant and to fulfill the will of the Father, demonstrating humility and obedience, even to the point of death on the cross. This act, known as kenosis, reflects His willingness to submit to God's plan .
Understanding Christ's Self-Emptying
The Concept of Kenosis
The term "kenosis" comes from the Greek word meaning "to empty." In Philippians 2:6-7, it describes how Jesus, while being fully God, chose to take on human form and the role of a servant. This act of self-emptying was not about losing His divine nature but rather about humbling Himself for the sake of humanity.Reasons for Self-Emptying
- Submission to the Father: Jesus voluntarily submitted to the will of God the Father. He demonstrated obedience, even to the point of death on the cross.
- Identification with Humanity: By becoming human, Jesus could fully relate to human experiences, suffering, and temptations. This allowed Him to serve as a mediator between God and humanity.
- Fulfillment of Prophecy: His self-emptying was part of God's plan for salvation, fulfilling Old Testament prophecies about the Messiah.
Hebrews 4"15
pepeirasmenon
having been tempted.
"Pepeirasmenon" is a Greek term that means "tempted" and refers to being tested or enticed, particularly in the context of experiencing temptation without succumbing to sin.
"Pepeirasmenon" is derived from the Greek word "peira," which means trial or test, and it refers to being tested or tempted. In the context of the New Testament, it often describes the act of being tested in various ways, including moral and spiritual challenges.
So @Peterlag ... God the Son was tested, after emptying himself, so that By becoming human, Jesus could fully relate to human experiences, suffering, and temptations. This allowed Him to serve as a mediator between God and humanity.
AND
Fulfillment of Prophecy: His self-emptying was part of God's plan for salvation, fulfilling Old Testament prophecies about the Messiah.
AND
Submission to the Father: Jesus voluntarily submitted to the will of God the Father. He demonstrated obedience, even to the point of death on the cross.
Peterlag
Active Member
There's nothing in Scripture that says Jesus emptied himself of his Godhood, or that he was tested, or that God could become a human. Nothing.
How stupid of a response? @FreeInChrist did not say Jesus emptied himself of being God. That would be like Peterlag emptying himself of being peterlag. I think that is one error of Peterlag's thinking, namely of converting a reasonable point about Phil 2 into an absurd one within his mind as he reads FreeInChrist's point.
Does God have to tell you about sending his Son incarnate among men before he did it? I think Peterlag limits his idea of a god to be a victim of the world instead of there being an all-powerful God.
Peterlag
Active Member
What on earth are the trinity folks thinking...
For anything to be achieved one side has to be able to win and one side has to be able to lose. We would not have a football game if one side could not lose. Jesus could not have redeemed us if he could not sin. He could not be resurrected if he could not die. He could not have walked a sinless life if he could not have been tempted to sin. It would never be fair to have God fix what a man (Adam) broke. Adam and Jesus had to be on equal grounds. What on earth are the trinity folks thinking?
For anything to be achieved one side has to be able to win and one side has to be able to lose. We would not have a football game if one side could not lose. Jesus could not have redeemed us if he could not sin. He could not be resurrected if he could not die. He could not have walked a sinless life if he could not have been tempted to sin. It would never be fair to have God fix what a man (Adam) broke. Adam and Jesus had to be on equal grounds. What on earth are the trinity folks thinking?
Selah
Active Member
I don’t understand what you’re trying to say.
