Kirk Cameron and annihilationism

I don't think so.
You didn't think what? You have repeatedly denied that animals have spirit. That is a lie.

You do not understand what "spirit" is.

Even God the Father has a form.

Joh 5:37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified about me. You people have never heard his voice nor seen his form at any time,

The Father spoke several times in the Scriptures. His voice "shook the earth".

Spirit is tangible. It has atomic structure. To say otherwise is a deception. I realize you prefer to live in some "make believe world". Come back to reality.
 
How many people dead or alive have you know that actually could walk through a closed door.

How many people dead or alive have you witnesses ascended toward heaven with out an airplane, balloon, or jet pack... or a form of oxygen just by rising as in the ascension?

But Jim... why does this bother you.... it says in the bible a glorified body all will have....

So you cannot understand it... You also cannot understand how a virgin got pregnant without sperm.

Or how a voice could come from heaven while a dove landed on Jesus.

The are lots of things that people do not understand... why this one is a problem/

I wish you would read the first book of Enoch as he describes what he saw. What? You figure that is fake?
Yet correct me if I am wrong but are you not one who follows science in somethings like evolution and even Genesis?

He judges his own experience over the clear revelation of God's own experience in the flesh.
 

I suppose they believe the wounds of Christ corrupted Him......

He has always been incorruptible. Having raised from death is the context that Paul deals with of never having to die again.

Event those who were "planted" in the ground at the time of Christ arose from the grave. They found corruption later.

Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
 
I suppose they believe the wounds of Christ corrupted Him......

He has always been incorruptible. Having raised from death is the context that Paul deals with of never having to die again.

Event those who were "planted" in the ground at the time of Christ arose from the grave. They found corruption later.

Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
I can’t believe how many in Christendom have gnostic beliefs about the resurrection
 
How many people dead or alive have you know that actually could walk through a closed door.
That was just another of the many miracles performed by Jesus.
I wish you would read the first book of Enoch as he describes what he saw. What? You figure that is fake?
Yet correct me if I am wrong but are you not one who follows science in somethings like evolution and even Genesis?
Science does not preclude miracles any more than Science precludes God.

1Jn 3:2 Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.

John certainly saw Jesus before and after His being raised from the dead. He knew what Jesus looked like and he says there in his letter that we shall be like him, but what will be has not yet appeared. So that tells me we will not be like He was after being raised from the dead. But Paul says that we shall be raised in glory (1 Cor 15:43).
 
Would you say that also falls under those who believe His 2nd coming to be spiritual? New heaven/earth is now, etc.? 🤔
Something that's dawned on me, but haven't looked into it.
Yep since the Incarnation which was permanent and the 2nd Coming are intertwined along with the gospel which at its core is the resurrection. The above are all core doctrines of the Christian faith, the Bible
 
Yep since the Incarnation which was permanent and the 2nd Coming are intertwined along with the gospel which at its core is the resurrection. The above are all core doctrines of the Christian faith, the Bible
Good grief

Soul sleep & annihilation both are man's wishful thinking too. Sad Kirk is falling into that belief.
 
Would you say that also falls under those who believe His 2nd coming to be spiritual? New heaven/earth is now, etc.? 🤔
Something that's dawned on me, but haven't looked into it.
Good point @Victoria

Is worth looking into for sure.
 
Good point @Victoria

Is worth looking into for sure.
Yes it effects several core christian doctrines including the following

the gospel
the resurrection- the centerpiece of the gospel
salvation
atoinement
justification
faith
the Incarnation- its permanent
the Godhead
the Son of man
2nd Coming
heaven
hell
new heavens, new earth

and several other doctrines of the faith.
 
Even AI gets it right lol.

Denying the bodily resurrection of Jesus undermines the core of Christianity, rendering faith futile, voiding the atonement for sins, and invalidating the promise of future resurrection for believers. It directly impacts doctrines regarding the divinity of Christ, the gospel message, the nature of salvation, and Christian hope.
Key Christian doctrines affected include:
  • The Gospel Message (1 Cor. 15:1-4): If Christ is not raised, the foundational message of Christianity is false.
  • Atonement and Justification: Without a resurrected Savior, believers are still in their sins and not justified before God.
  • The Divinity of Christ (Christology): Denial challenges Jesus's victory over death and His role as the living Lord.
  • The Resurrection of Believers (Eschatology): Jesus is the "firstfruits"; denying his physical resurrection removes the guarantee of humanity’s future bodily resurrection.
  • Christian Hope and Faith: Faith becomes useless, and those who have died have perished without hope.
  • The Nature of Scripture: It treats the apostolic testimony as false witness.
In essence, according to Pauline theology, the resurrection is not merely a doctrine, but the cornerstone upon which all other doctrines stand or fall.

In Christian theology, denying the bodily resurrection of Jesus is considered a "radical error" because it dismantles the foundation of several other essential doctrines. According to 1 Corinthians 15 and theological scholarship, the primary doctrines affected include:

1. Soteriology (Doctrine of Salvation)
  • Atonement for Sin: Without the resurrection, faith is "futile" and believers are "still in their sins". The resurrection serves as the Father's validation that Jesus' sacrifice was sufficient and accepted as payment for sin.
  • Justification: Christ's resurrection is linked to the believer's justification; if He were not raised, the mediator’s work on our behalf would not be acceptable to God.

2. Christology (Doctrine of Christ)
  • Deity and Identity: The resurrection proves Jesus is who He claimed to be: the Son of God and the Messiah. Denying it reduces Jesus to a "dead rabbi" or a "dead martyr" whose claims to divinity were empty.
  • Lordship Over Death: A Jesus who did not rise bodily is not Lord over death and cannot hold the "keys of death and Hades".

3. Eschatology (Doctrine of Last Things)
  • Future Resurrection of Believers: Jesus is the "firstfruits" of those who have died. If He was not raised, then the promise of a future bodily resurrection for mankind is invalidated, meaning those who have died in Christ have "perished".
  • Restoration of Creation: The resurrection guarantees the eventual renewal of all creation and the defeat of the "bondage of corruption".

4. Bibliology (Doctrine of Scripture)
  • Apostolic Trustworthiness: If Christ did not rise, the Apostles are "false witnesses" who misrepresented God by claiming He performed a miracle that never happened.
  • Fulfilled Prophecy: The resurrection was necessary to fulfill Old Testament prophecies; denying it makes those scriptures and Jesus' own predictions false.

5. Christian Living and Hope
  • The Gospel Message: Denying the resurrection "destroys" the Gospel, rendering preaching "vain" and meaningless.
  • Purpose and Hope: Without it, Christians are "of all people most to be pitied" because their hope is limited to this life only, which lead to a philosophy of "let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die".
 
Who here has denied the bodily resurrection of Jesus? Certainly not me. That you would claim otherwise is on you.
if Jesus is no longer human, having a human body and is no longer a man with a physical body then its denying the Resurrection since the resurrection of Jesus bodily was permanent, not temporal.
 
if Jesus is no longer human, having a human body and is no longer a man with a physical body then its denying the Resurrection since the resurrection of Jesus bodily was permanent, not temporal.
That is just your own personal interpretation of Jesus' resurrection. You of course have the right to that. But you do not have the authority to deny other interpretations. You are not divinely inspired.
 
That is just your own personal interpretation of Jesus' resurrection. You of course have the right to that. But you do not have the authority to deny other interpretations. You are not divinely inspired.
no its biblical, historical, orthodox and the very basis for Christianity.

oh I do have authority- its the clerar teaching of the bible on the Resurrection.

Gnosticism was a problem during the days of the Apostles and it continues today. Paul and John wrote a couple of their epistles to combat gnostic thought regarding the resurrection, the flesh, the body, heaven, afterlife etc......

hope this helps !!!
 
no its biblical, historical, orthodox and the very basis for Christianity.
There is no statement in the Bible that says that Jesus being a human being is a permanent condition. That is an interpretation from you and whoever thinks that to be true.
oh I do have authority- its the clerar teaching of the bible on the Resurrection.
No it is not even stated in the bible, let alone being a clear teaching.
Gnosticism was a problem during the days of the Apostles and it continues today. Paul and John wrote a couple of their epistles to combat gnostic thought regarding the resurrection, the flesh, the body, heaven, afterlife etc......
And in all of their writings they never once said what you believe and teach with respect to the permanency of Jesus as a human being.
hope this helps !!!
Not in the least.!!
 
There is no statement in the Bible that says that Jesus being a human being is a permanent condition. That is an interpretation from you and whoever thinks that to be true.

No it is not even stated in the bible, let alone being a clear teaching.

And in all of their writings they never once said what you believe and teach with respect to the permanency of Jesus as a human being.

Not in the least.!!
Scripture refutes your gnostic beliefs regarding the permanent humanity of Jesus. The Incarnation was permanent, the bodily Resurrection was permanent, the son of man is a man forever.

All the Fulness of Deity dwells in Him (permanently) as per Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9.

This is how the passage reads and how it is to be understood in its " CONTEXT " from Colossians 1:19, 2:9 concerning Christ being fully God lacking nothing in His Divinity while on this earth and His Ascension and also His humanity which remains permanent. The Incarnation was not temporal but Christ remains forever God in the flesh. All the fulness of Deity remains bodily.

In Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9 the Apostle Paul said, For in HIM (CHRIST) ALL of the “ fullness of deity dwells bodily. “Did Paul use the word fullness there to mean partially? NO as Jesus did not empty Himself of His Deity. Jesus Divinity is FULL, complete lacking in nothing. The ENTIRE Fullness of Deity dwells (is present) bodily in Jesus. In Colossians 1:19 it is describing His earthly ministry and Colossians 2:9 it is describing His Post Resurrection/Ascension Glory as God Incarnate.

Colossians 1:19-20
For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven
Colossians 2:9-10- For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

Colossians 3:1- Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Paul is talking in Colossians chapters 2-3 about the glorified resurrected Christ now seated at the right hand of God not the earthly Christ pre resurrection. This is a slam dunk that He is in a human glorified resurrection body and that He continues to have all the fullness of Deity dwelling bodily in the present.

Now read the Greek below on the present ongoing meaning of DWELLS . The bodily dwelling of Deity is permanent not temporary. The Incarnation was PERMANENT.

κατοικεῖ (katoikei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 2730: To dwell in, settle in, be established in (permanently), inhabit. From kata and oikeo; to house permanently, i.e. Reside.


8.2 σωματικός, ή, όν; σωματικῶςa: (derivatives of σῶμαa ‘body,’ 8.1) pertaining to a physical body—‘bodily, physical, bodily form.’[1] Louw Nida


Expositor's Greek Testament
Colossians 2:9. in Him and in Him alone.—κατοικεῖ: “permanently dwells”. The reference is to the Exalted State, not only on account of the present, but of the context and Paul’s Christology generally.—πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος: “all the fulness of the Godhead”. πᾶν is emphatic, the whole fulness dwells in Christ.

“Dwelleth” is katoikei (κατοικει). Oikeō (Ὀικεω) means “to be at home.” Kata (Κατα), prefixed, means “down,” thus showing permanence. The compound verb was used of the permanent residents of a town as compared with the transient community. The verb is in the present tense, showing durative action. The translation reads: “Because in Him there is continuously and permanently at home all the fulness of the Godhead in bodily fashion.”


hope this helps !!!
 
1- The Son/ Word/ God became flesh as per John 1:14
2- The Son is still in the flesh bodily as per Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9
3- The Son remains in the flesh forever, continuously- a completed action in the past ( became flesh) and remains flesh in the present as per 1 John 4:2-3, 2 John 1:7.
4- The gospel message is Jesus died bodily for our sins, was buried bodily for our sins, was raised bodily for our sins giving victory over sin, death and the devil. Ascended into heaven bodily as our High priest who makes intercession for us and will return again bodily at His 2nd Coming.
5- Jesus denied being a spirit, incorporeal. He declared a spirit ( incorporeal ) does not have a body as you see I have, tough and see My flesh and bones.
6- At least a dozen essential/core doctrines of the bible, Christianity, orthodoxy hinge on the Bodily Resurrection/Ascension of Jesus. Ones very salvation/faith does as per Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:14-17.

hope this helps !!!
 
Scripture refutes your gnostic beliefs regarding the permanent humanity of Jesus. The Incarnation was permanent, the bodily Resurrection was permanent, the son of man is a man forever.

All the Fulness of Deity dwells in Him (permanently) as per Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9.

This is how the passage reads and how it is to be understood in its " CONTEXT " from Colossians 1:19, 2:9 concerning Christ being fully God lacking nothing in His Divinity while on this earth and His Ascension and also His humanity which remains permanent. The Incarnation was not temporal but Christ remains forever God in the flesh. All the fulness of Deity remains bodily.
Again, you are interpreting, not reading. There is nothing in either of those verses that speaks to the permanence of the humanity of Jesus. It speaks to the divinity of His authority and power that was His while here on earth. There was no deficiency in His being a human to bring about our salvation. There was nothing about His bodily condition, His incarnation, His life as a human being here on earth that prevented Him from being the savior for the world. There is nothing there stating that He is still a human being.
 
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