John's understanding of who Jesus is

[tigger2]

John's understanding of who Jesus is

There are some verses in John's writing that are translated by trinitarian translators as "trinity proofs."

But there are some others that cannot be misunderstood or mistranslated.

John 17:3 is clear. Jesus says in prayer to the Father: "You [are] the only true God."

But John himself makes clear what he understood Jesus to be. He, in the conclusion of his Gospel, tells us:

"The Purpose of This Gospel​

30 Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of His disciples that are not written in this book. 31 But these are written so that you may believe Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and by believing you may have life in His name." -HCSB.

.............................

"Why This Gospel Was Written​

30 So then, many other [h]signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name." - NASB.
...........................................

"The Purpose of John’s Gospel​

30 Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. 31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name." - NIV.
.........................................

"The Purpose of This Book​

30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book. 31 But these are written so that you may come to believe[d] that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that through believing you may have life in his name." - NRSV

 

[APAK]

John's understanding of who Jesus is

There are some verses in John's writing that are translated by trinitarian translators as "trinity proofs."

But there are some others that cannot be misunderstood or mistranslated.

John 17:3 is clear. Jesus says in prayer to the Father: "You [are] the only true God."

But John himself makes clear what he understood Jesus to be. He, in the conclusion of his Gospel, tells us:

"The Purpose of This Gospel​

30 Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of His disciples that are not written in this book. 31 But these are written so that you may believe Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and by believing you may have life in His name." -HCSB.

.............................

"Why This Gospel Was Written​

30 So then, many other [h]signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name." - NASB.
...........................................

"The Purpose of John’s Gospel​

30 Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. 31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name." - NIV.
.........................................

"The Purpose of This Book​

30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book. 31 But these are written so that you may come to believe[d] that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that through believing you may have life in his name." - NRSV

Indeed, John emphasized more that anyone else to his audience and readers to know for certain that Jesus, the Christ is the Son of God and he is life, the bread of life for us. And as you said in your OP of John 20:30-31. This has to be a foundational truth and a logical starting place to launch into Christology, the nature and, who is Jesus.

 

[Fred]

John 17:3 is clear. Jesus says in prayer to the Father: "You [are] the only true God."

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-only-true-god-john-17-3-the-only-master-jude-4.629/#post-16142

31 But these are written so that you may believe Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and by believing you may have life in His name." -HCSB.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/why-the-trinity-is-wrong-language-usage.201/page-9#post-9348

 

[synergy]

John's understanding of who Jesus is

There are some verses in John's writing that are translated by trinitarian translators as "trinity proofs."

But there are some others that cannot be misunderstood or mistranslated.

John 17:3 is clear. Jesus says in prayer to the Father: "You [are] the only true God."

But John himself makes clear what he understood Jesus to be. He, in the conclusion of his Gospel, tells us:

"The Purpose of This Gospel​

30 Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of His disciples that are not written in this book. 31 But these are written so that you may believe Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and by believing you may have life in His name." -HCSB.

.............................

"Why This Gospel Was Written​

30 So then, many other [h]signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that by believing you may have life in His name." - NASB.
...........................................

"The Purpose of John’s Gospel​

30 Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. 31 But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name." - NIV.
.........................................

"The Purpose of This Book​

30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book. 31 But these are written so that you may come to believe[d] that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that through believing you may have life in his name." - NRSV

John's understanding on who Jesus, the Word of God, is:

11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war.
12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.
13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in [f]fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses.
15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:

KING OF KINGS AND
LORD OF LORDS.

 

[Matthias]

John understands who Jesus is. John also understands who Yahweh is.

Trinitarians are busying themselves talking about God and God.

John busied himself talking about God and the Messiah.

 

[synergy]

John understands who Jesus is. John also understands who Yahweh is.

Trinitarians are busying themselves talking about God and God.

John busied himself talking about God and the Messiah.

John went way beyond calling Christ Christ (Greek word for Messiah). No need to keep repeating his name to those who know his name. John revealed that the Word, who was God, is Jesus Christ.

 

[Matthias]

John went way beyond calling Christ Christ (Greek word for Messiah). No need to keep repeating his name to those who know his name. John revealed that the Word, who was God, is Jesus Christ.

There’s no denying that your side of the fence talks about God and God.

It’s called “the Trinitarian stutter”.

 

[Fred]

But John himself makes clear what he understood Jesus to be.

John 2:24-25
(24) But Jesus, on His part, was not entrusting Himself to them, for He knew all men,
(25) and because He did not need anyone to testify concerning man, for He Himself knew what was in man.

1 Kings 8:39
then hear in heaven Your dwelling place, and forgive and act and render to each according to all his ways, whose heart You know, for You alone know the hearts of all the sons of men.

 

[synergy]

There’s no denying that your side of the fence talks about God and God.

It’s called “the Trinitarian stutter”.

We believe in One God, 3 Persons, so there is no stutter on our part. What about your stutter?

 

[Matthias]

We believe in One God, 3 Persons, so there is no stutter on our part. What about your stutter?

God and God.

Trinitarians do it and, apparently, don’t know it.

“God and Christ” -> “God and God”

 

[civic]

John went way beyond calling Christ Christ (Greek word for Messiah). No need to keep repeating his name to those who know his name. John revealed that the Word, who was God, is Jesus Christ.

Yes YHWH, Lord, God and 150 other plus names titles and descriptions for God alone.

 

[tigger2]

Yes YHWH, Lord, God and 150 other plus names titles and descriptions for God alone.

........................................................


"That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth." - KJV.

 

[tigger2]

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"That men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth." - KJV.

That is quoting Ps. 83:18 in the KJV.

 

[Fred]

name alone is Jehovah

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/alone-only.744/

 

[101G]

John 17:3 is clear. Jesus says in prayer to the Father: "You [are] the only true God."

if that's true, "Why then is the Lord Jesus is the ONLY "ONE" who is eternal? 1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

John 17:3 "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."
as the ECHAD is Expressed, the Father and the Son is the Same one person..... equally shared. Oh how simple the bible is.

101G.

 

[101G]

John's understanding of who Jesus is

There are some verses in John's writing that are translated by trinitarian translators as "trinity proofs."

But there are some others that cannot be misunderstood or mistranslated.

John 17:3 is clear. Jesus says in prayer to the Father: "You [are] the only true God."

But John himself makes clear what he understood Jesus to be. He, in the conclusion of his Gospel, tells us:

John was well aware of Isaiah 35:4 as well as the Pharisees. "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you." Isaiah 35:5 "Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped." Isaiah 35:6 "Then shall the lame man leap as an hart, and the tongue of the dumb sing: for in the wilderness shall waters break out, and streams in the desert." Isaiah 35:7 "And the parched ground shall become a pool, and the thirsty land springs of water: in the habitation of dragons, where each lay, shall be grass with reeds and rushes."

when did all this Happen? John 3:1 "There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:" John 3:2 "The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him."

101G.

 

[tigger2]

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/alone-only.744/

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1 Timothy 6:16 - Jesus or the Father?

A number of respected trinitarian scholars have understood 1 Tim. 6:15, 16 as applying to the Father. To insist otherwise is purely wishful thinking.

1 Timothy 6:16 ὁ μόνος ἔχων ἀθανασίαν: “God the Father is the subject of this whole attribution;” - The Expositor's Greek Testament, p. 148, volume 4. ​

“whom no one of men (ever) saw, nor can see (the Commentators quote Theophilus ad Autol., i. 5, p. 341: εἰ τῷ ἡλίῳ ἐλαχίστῳ ὄντι στοιχείῳ οὐ δύναται ἄνθρωπος ἀτενίσαι διὰ τὴν ὑπερβάλλουσαν θέρμην καὶ δύναμιν πῶς οὐχὶ μᾶλλον τῇ τοῦ θεοῦ δόξῃ ἀνεκφράστῳ οὔσῃ ἄνθρωπος θνητὸς οὐ δύναται ἀντωπῆσαι These words, as compared with John 1:18 , seem to prove decisively that the whole description applies to the Father, not to the Son)” - Alford's Greek Testament Critical Exegetical Commentary. ​

 

[Fred]

...................................................................................

1 Timothy 6:16 - Jesus or the Father?

A number of respected trinitarian scholars have understood 1 Tim. 6:15, 16 as applying to the Father. To insist otherwise is purely wishful thinking.

1 Timothy 6:16 ὁ μόνος ἔχων ἀθανασίαν: “God the Father is the subject of this whole attribution;” - The Expositor's Greek Testament, p. 148, volume 4. ​

“whom no one of men (ever) saw, nor can see (the Commentators quote Theophilus ad Autol., i. 5, p. 341: εἰ τῷ ἡλίῳ ἐλαχίστῳ ὄντι στοιχείῳ οὐ δύναται ἄνθρωπος ἀτενίσαι διὰ τὴν ὑπερβάλλουσαν θέρμην καὶ δύναμιν πῶς οὐχὶ μᾶλλον τῇ τοῦ θεοῦ δόξῃ ἀνεκφράστῳ οὔσῃ ἄνθρωπος θνητὸς οὐ δύναται ἀντωπῆσαι These words, as compared with John 1:18 , seem to prove decisively that the whole description applies to the Father, not to the Son)” - Alford's Greek Testament Critical Exegetical Commentary. ​

That's the beauty of it.

W. E. Vine asserts that 1 Timothy 6:15-16 "is probably to be understood of the Lord Jesus, cp. Revelation 17:14."
https://www.studylight.org/dictionaries/ved/l/lord-lordship.html


The Jehovah's Witness (no friend of Trinitarians) affirm that 1 Timothy 6:16 is in reference to the Lord Jesus.
The Watchtower: Christ is immortal; he lives forever. (1 Tim. 6:16; Heb. 7:24) (Ruler's for the People's Interests, February 15, 1974, page 106)

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1974123

This is why I listed 1 Timothy 6:15 in the OP of the thread that not one person wo denies the Lord Jesus is God has fully addressed.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-unitarian-challenge-for-those-who-deny-jesus-is-almighty-god.618/#post-15713

 

[101G]

1 Timothy 6:14 "That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:" 1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;" 1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

one person, the Lord Jesus who is the First and the Last, in Ordinal designations of his OWN-SELF. for Only indicate "one" person, Oh the Beauty of the "ECHAD".

101G.