John the Baptist knew Jesus Christ was God!

[praise_yeshua]

I'm sorry, I thought you would recognize that I Highlighted JTB words you posted. I know that I believe them, and Pancho believes them as well. So neither me nor Pancho believes that JTB was a Liar, in my view.

"Your view". Do I really have to remind you that everything we say is ultimately "Our view". You have no authority over me nor do I have authority over you.

Joh 3:34 For he whom God has sent "utters the words of God", for he (God) gives the Spirit without measure.
Joh 3:35 The Father loves the Son and has given "all things into his (The Son's) hand".

When I say I believe John the Baptist, Paul, Matthew, Peter and Jesus Himself, I mean they all point to God the Father who is above all, and His Son who brings us to His Father, I am called a Unitarian. I think it is used as a slanderous name by many in judgment of others. I don't see that JTB thought Jesus was God the Father, rather, it seems evident that JTB knew that God the Father sent Jesus, as prophesied by the Law and Prophets. I don't see where JTB called Jesus God, but I can see how he believed the Messiah was greater than him, just as I believe JTB was greater than me. Truly Jesus is the Head of both me and JTB. And Truly God is the Head of Jesus. It seems you don't believe this, therefore, we disagree.

You're using the words of others. "Others" did not "coordinate their words with John. Whether they say the same exact things or not is relative to context and circumstances. Stick with John. That way there isn't any confusion whatsoever. Pay attention my words.

It is slanderous to ignore the Deity of Jesus Christ and call yourself a "follower" of Jesus Christ. You're not following Jesus Christ.

You are such a bitter and resentful man. I pray that you will become renewed in the spirit of your mind.

Why. How nice of you. I mean "bitter" and "resentful" are such wonderful determination... right? I'm defending Jesus Christ from your false accusations. Who are you to judge such thing? You're not equal to the only Judge of mankind. Jesus Christ.

It seems evident that you do not rejoice at all, that Jesus ascended up to His Father who is greater than HE. Honestly, I don't seek my understanding of Jesus, or the God HE served by reading the Dictionary, or listening to Kenneth Copeland, or the Pope, or any of this world's religious men. Yes, there are 1000's of books and hundreds of different religious sects and business in this world's religious kingdoms. God's Inspired Word speaks to this as well.

The English definition of "Unitarian" is accurate. = "a person who asserts the unity of God and rejects the doctrine of the Trinity,"

See how easy that was. Making up your own definitions is just your own judgement. When you're communicating with someone else, you need to have the same definitions or it is crazy to even try to have a conversation.

I was simply pointing out that by the definition of Unitarian you seem to be promoting on this forum, Jesus, JTB, Matthew, Paul and Peter all fit the description it seems. I wasn't labeling them as such, rather, addressing the title of your thread. JTB knew Jesus was the Prophesied Son of God, just as Peter knew when Jesus asked him.

I didn't learn this from reading a dictionary, rather, studying the Holy Scriptures.

"Seems" to you is different than "Seems" to others.

 

[praise_yeshua]

God bless you, Studyman.
This is a great rendition of what Unitarian means.
Whatever the greatness of the Messengers of God, they all point out to God, and God alone.

English anyone?

Unitarian = a person who asserts the unity of God and rejects the doctrine of the Trinity

 

[360watt]

Another scripture related to Jesus being above all, is that 'in Him, all things consist'

I couldn't say that about anything less than God.

Colossians 1:17-19 KJV - 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

This passage should be enough aside from John the Baptist, which confirms it more!

There must be a belief that mortal men can attain godhood if someone maintains this passage doesn't support Jesus' deity.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

What I say reveals your condition.

When we express a negative moral judgement on a person, we reveal ourselves more than we reveal that person.
What I say reveals my condition. What you say reveals your condition.

That's precisely why Jesus didn't say
"For with what judgment you judge, he will be judged. And with the measure you use, he will be measured"

Instead, he said
"For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged. And with the measure you use, you will be measured"

Can we agree on not passing negative moral judgements on others? What do you say?

 

[praise_yeshua]

When we express a negative moral judgement on a person, we reveal ourselves more than we reveal that person.

See. You're not just condemning me. You're condemning Jesus Christ.

Is that what Jesus did below?

Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

I don't really understand your delusion. I do... but it would seem you'd see it yourself.

You don't even know how to make an argument. You condemn me without a single thought of how Jesus did anything Himself.

It shows just how much you don't really care about this person you claim to love.

 

[praise_yeshua]

Can we agree on not passing negative moral judgements on others? What do you say?

You're the one that made up your "Mary Magdalene" moment. Do you seriously think that others would NOT recognize the similarities?

I wonder where it came from..... Geesh.

That is what men do. I'm not condemning you in your sinfulness. All men have similar issues. What condemns you are your own words. I can certainly judge them.

Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Mat 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
Mat 12:36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

Words. If you want to condemn to me for defending Jesus Christ, then so be it.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

See. You're not just condemning me. You're condemning Jesus Christ.

Is that what Jesus did below?

Jesus knew their lives and read their hearts good enough.
He came from above. We don't.
In addition, Jesus wasn't condemning their theological views, but their way of life.

So, can we agree on not passing moral judgements on people in the Forum and go back to the argumentation?
What do you say?

 

[praise_yeshua]

Jesus knew their lives and read their hearts good enough.
He came from above. We don't.
In addition, Jesus wasn't condemning their theological views, but their way of life.

Geesh. There is no separation in what we believe and how we live our lives. We are what we believe. You're believing your own malarkey.

So, can we agree on not passing moral judgements on people in the Forum and go back to the argumentation?
What do you say?

You are what you believe. There is no separation. If I attack what you believe. I'm attacking you. I can certainly attack your words. That is attacking you.

This nonsense that exists in society is just so crazy. I can't have a simple argument with you because of this junk society has accepted as being true. Your comments are a perfect example of how you're disconnected from reality.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

You are what you believe. There is no separation.

You are what you do.
That's why Scriptures say we will be judged according to what we did, not according to what we believed.
( I know that words are included in what we do, but in regard to how we used them to help or harm others)

Certainly, some beliefs may have a great impact on what we do.
One example of a great impact would the belief that, since Jesus is coming in his glory next month, we should stop college, quit jobs, abandon cities and gather in the mountains to witness the Second Coming.

However, most beliefs debated in this Forum have no impact on what we do.

Three examples:

1. TRINITARIANISM VS UNITARISM
Whether we believe Jesus is God or the One Sent by God, we still need to repent and live our lives as Jesus asked us.

2. CALVINISM VS ARMINISM
Whether we believe we have been chosen to be saved from the foundation of the world, or we choose to be saved, we still need to recognize that we are saved by God's grace, and not by our own merits.

3. ETERNAL TORMENT VS ANHILIATION
Whether we believe that the wicked will be tormented in the flames of hell forever, or destroyed in an instant, we don't want to be among the wicked. We will not sin more or sin less because the idea we have on how the wicked will end.

 

[praise_yeshua]

You are what you do.
That's why Scriptures say we will be judged according to what we did, not according to what we believed.

What a silly equation. "Doing" is believing. Believing is doing. Doing has NO value without believing. You do things for own advantage.

These are rudimentary issues in your "faith/belief".

I'm going to start forcing you to deal with rudimentary issues in your beliefs.

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

"Doing" is believing. Believing is doing. Doing has NO value without believing.

If we truly believe that we should honor our parents, we will take care of our parents, be kind to them, listen to them, help them in their needs, protect their reputation, etc. So our "believing" will translate into "doing".
If we truly believe that Jesus is the Second Person of the Trinity, we will.... we will... [complete the sentence]

Unless someone brings to this Forum one example of a good deed that results from believing in the Trinity, and not from Unitarism,
Unless someone brings to this Forum one example of good deed that results from believing in Calvinism and not from Arminism,
Unless someone brings to this Forum one example of good deed that results from believing in eternal hell and not from believing in anihiliation...
these doctrinal disputes will be a matter of entertainment and skill-building, just as a game of chess.

"What does it profit, my brothers, if a man says he has faith but has no works? Can faith save him? ... ​

Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God; you do well. The demons also believe and tremble. But do you want to be shown, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?" (James 2:14,18-20)​

​

"If I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not love, I am nothing." (1 Cor 13:2)​

 

[Pancho Frijoles]

I'm going to start forcing you to deal with rudimentary issues in your beliefs.

You don't need to force me.
Just present sound arguments... and please, be ready to be challenged without thinking that Jesus is being attacked.

 

[Studyman]

All men are at the same level. You're no better than any other man. All men are created equal.

It is true that I am no better than any man. If I live in iniquity, and refuse to "Yield Myself" to God, I will receive the same reward from Him as all others who work iniquity and treat Him the same Way. And if I "Yield Myself" to Him to honor Him as His Son, the Jesus "of the Bible" instructs, I will receive the same reward as others who also yield themselves to Him. For HE is no respecter of persons and judges every man according as his work shall be.

All men are created equal in that they are all free to choose the Path they walk. But all men do not walk the same Path. So All men are not at the same level. This is another place where you are in error, concerning the Gospel of Christ. As I pointed out to you in another post.

I know these things, not because I read the Dictionary, but because I listened to Paul as he speaks to the mainstream preachers of his time.

Rom. 2: 3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? (I say no, you are not better than any other man who engages in the same conduct).

4 Or despisest thou the riches "of his goodness" and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation "of the righteous judgment of God";

6 Who will render to "every man" according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

9 Tribulation and anguish, upon "every soul of man" that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;

10 But glory, honour, and peace, to "every man" that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

So no PY. I don't believe I am better than you or anyone. I believe we will both receive what Paul teaches we will receive.

2 Cor. 5: 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

Here is your level "Praise Yeshua".

"I can tell you that your hooker doesn't love you like Mary loves Jesus. You're a cheap imitation".

You should be ashamed of yourself. The fact that you are not is proof positive that all men are not on the same level.

 

[civic]

Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.”
Joh 3:31 He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all.
Joh 3:32 He bears witness to what he has seen and heard, yet no one receives his testimony.
Joh 3:33 Whoever receives his testimony sets his seal to this, that God is true.
Joh 3:34 For he whom God has sent utters the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure.
Joh 3:35 The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand.

Any Unitarians want to claim John the Baptist a liar?

and add to the above truths John who was born 6 months before Jesus said on 2 occasions in John 2 that Jesus existed before him.

 

[Studyman]

"Your view". Do I really have to remind you that everything we say is ultimately "Our view". You have no authority over me nor do I have authority over you.



You're using the words of others. "Others" did not "coordinate their words with John. Whether they say the same exact things or not is relative to context and circumstances. Stick with John. That way there isn't any confusion whatsoever. Pay attention my words.

If you have no authority over me, then why should I pay attention to "Your" words?

It is slanderous to ignore the Deity of Jesus Christ and call yourself a "follower" of Jesus Christ. You're not following Jesus Christ.

Yes I heard it all from you before. I don't Love Jesus, I don't please God and I don't follow Jesus. But you just said you have no Authority over me. Why then, must you insist on judging me as beneath you? Oh, wait a minute, you also preach that you and I are on the same level and you work to drag me down to your level, not "up" to your level. So then you also don't Love Jesus? You also don't please God and also do not follow Jesus? Which means you believe Paul "WAS" speaking to the Body of Christ in Romans 3.

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15 Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17 And the way of peace have they not known: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

You are free to live at this level PY, and try to drag others down with you. But I truly wish you wouldn't, and if you believed all that is written, I don't think you would.

Why. How nice of you. I mean "bitter" and "resentful" are such wonderful determination... right? I'm defending Jesus Christ from your false accusations. Who are you to judge such thing? You're not equal to the only Judge of mankind. Jesus Christ.

Believing what Jesus actually says about Him and His Father who HE says is Greater than HE, is not falsely accusing Him. You are not equal to the Judge God will send to Judge mankind.

The English definition of "Unitarian" is accurate. = "a person who asserts the unity of God and rejects the doctrine of the Trinity,"

I'm not Catholic, I have not adopted their doctrines, traditions, high days or images of God she created. I am more interested in what Jesus actually says.

See how easy that was. Making up your own definitions is just your own judgement. When you're communicating with someone else, you need to have the same definitions or it is crazy to even try to have a conversation.

How does a man have a conversation with someone who calls their woman a hooker? Who tells men they don't Love Jesus. and will never please God? When I called you a bitter and resentful man, it was because of your treatment of others. You need to step back and consider yourself PY.

Or not, it your choice.

 

[101G]

Joh 3:30 He must increase, but I must decrease.”
Joh 3:31 He who comes from above is above all. He who is of the earth belongs to the earth and speaks in an earthly way. He who comes from heaven is above all.
Joh 3:32 He bears witness to what he has seen and heard, yet no one receives his testimony.
Joh 3:33 Whoever receives his testimony sets his seal to this, that God is true.
Joh 3:34 For he whom God has sent utters the words of God, for he gives the Spirit without measure.
Joh 3:35 The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand.

Any Unitarians want to claim John the Baptist a liar?

Addressing the OP only, have not read all posts. Correct, for John the Baptist is the Elijah to come that prepare the way of the "Lord". scripture, Isaiah 40:3 "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God." for who? .... OUR GOD. another verse, Malachi 3:1 "Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts." just one more, Malachi 4:5 "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:" Malachi 4:6 "And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse." fulfilled in John the Baptist. Luke 1:16 "And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God." Luke 1:17 "And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord."

the scriptures are clear.

101G.

 

[TomL]

Another scripture related to Jesus being above all, is that 'in Him, all things consist'

I couldn't say that about anything less than God.

Colossians 1:17-19 KJV - 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

This passage should be enough aside from John the Baptist, which confirms it more!

There must be a belief that mortal men can attain godhood if someone maintains this passage doesn't support Jesus' deity.

Col 2:17 also refutes the Jehovah's witness claim the word was a created thing